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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)
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Tip top 2
16-01-2016
A deserved point, and the spirit in the second half was fantastic for the most part.

The biggest weakness imo is moves taking too long, and / or breaking down when Willian gets the ball in the centre of the pitch, and / or on the break. He holds on to the ball for too long, often doesn't know what to do, and / or makes an inaccurate pass. That has to improve.

At the back, the rb position is also a huge weak area, and Ivanovic does some good work in advanced areas at times, but he's supposed to be a defender, and often isn't doing his job.

Pedro improved a bit second half, and Kenedy looked lively. Remy wasn't convincing when he came on, and we need to strengthen there.

A point is better than a loss, but still a lot of ground to make up.

West Brom and Everton were much more direct and decisive in their attacking play mostly, and a Mata like player just behind the forwards distributing much quicker and with more accuracy, would make a huge difference to the overall play.
RichmondBlue
16-01-2016
I didn't see the game, but from what I've heard we were lucky to get a point.
Two points from home games against West Brom and Everton, that's relegation form. Now we have Arsenal and Watford away followed by Man Utd at home.
Any improvement seems to have been short lived, we may have stopped actually losing but we're dropping just as many points.
Jokanovic
16-01-2016
Originally Posted by terry45:
“All those new Chelsea fans who couldn't pinpoint Stamford bridge on a map must be scratching their heads wondering who to support next season.”

Hello, good old Terry is back again. Arsenal must be doing well.
Whatever happens son, that Champions League is still missing
Jokanovic
16-01-2016
Going forward is not a problem, we are just not good enough defensively.
Equaliser was well offside but we need all the luck we can get.
computermaster
16-01-2016
8 mins? Lmao. This bent ref think Fergie was your manager? "Big man" offside as well i'm hearing ahahaha. Hoping to see some Jose Mourinho chants on Match of The Day later .
Jokanovic
16-01-2016
Originally Posted by computermaster:
“8 mins? Lmao. This bent ref think Fergie was your manager? Hoping to see some Jose Mourinho chants on Match of The Day later .”

Homework finished early today so computer time allowed now eh. Well done.
The_don1
16-01-2016
Originally Posted by computermaster:
“8 mins? Lmao. This bent ref think Fergie was your manager? "Big man" offside as well i'm hearing ahahaha. Hoping to see some Jose Mourinho chants on Match of The Day later .”

Won't Mummy send you to bed by then?

The injury time (get a adult to explain it to you) due to a major injury

I would go to bed so you can get up early to go out on your BMX as you will disappointed (can you actually "see" a chant? Maybe if you switch on the subtitles so you can look up the difficult words)
The_don1
16-01-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“I didn't see the game, but from what I've heard we were lucky to get a point.
Two points from home games against West Brom and Everton, that's relegation form. Now we have Arsenal and Watford away followed by Man Utd at home.
Any improvement seems to have been short lived, we may have stopped actually losing but we're dropping just as many points.”


Might be harsh to say we did not deserve a draw, we didn't play well that's for sure but I think we just about deserved getting a draw.
Jokanovic
16-01-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“Might be harsh to say we did not deserve a draw, we didn't play well that's for sure but I think we just about deserved getting a draw.”

Only really started playing when Matic went off for Oscar.
I think we just about deserved it for the comebacks.
The_don1
16-01-2016
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“Only really started playing when Matic went off for Oscar.
I think we just about deserved it for the comebacks.”

Its a very close call very close but think we just about tipped it into being a fair result
NinjyBear
17-01-2016
For what it's worth I thought John Stones looked rubbish yesterday as well. Certainly not a player worth chasing for an entire Summer, let alone paying £40m for.
RichmondBlue
17-01-2016
Originally Posted by NinjyBear:
“For what it's worth I thought John Stones looked rubbish yesterday as well. Certainly not a player worth chasing for an entire Summer, let alone paying £40m for.”

Last I heard it was £45m ! Ridiculous price in my opinion, more than double the price he is realistically worth. We signed Zouma for £12m, same age but probably further advanced than Stones right now.
Stones has enormous potential, but at present that's what it is..potential. Do we really want to pay that kind of money for someone who is far from being a guaranteed starter ?
The_don1
17-01-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Last I heard it was £45m ! Ridiculous price in my opinion, more than double the price he is realistically worth. We signed Zouma for £12m, same age but probably further advanced than Stones right now.
Stones has enormous potential, but at present that's what it is..potential. Do we really want to pay that kind of money for someone who is far from being a guaranteed starter ?”

But Zouma was not bought from a club in the same league (always increases price), I think Zouma did not have long left in his contract (Stones signed a 5 year deal not so long ago) and then you have the English tax and now due to the money in the league to buy one of a teams most important players you have to over pay more so when it one of the established clubs.

A players talent is having less and less to do with their value nowadays.
RichmondBlue
17-01-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“But Zouma was not bought from a club in the same league (always increases price), I think Zouma did not have long left in his contract (Stones signed a 5 year deal not so long ago) and then you have the English tax and now due to the money in the league to buy one of a teams most important players you have to over pay more so when it one of the established clubs.

A players talent is having less and less to do with their value nowadays.”

Yes, I understand all that. But it's still silly money in my opinion. I don't mind a calculated risk, but once the price gets up near the £50m, there doesn't seem to be any upside left to me. If Stones turns into a top class CB, we'll have paid about the right price.
Take Lukaku for instance, Everton took a bit of a risk at £28m, but if he ends up a world class striker he'll probably be worth £60/70m.
We'll be overpaying for what is still only "potential" in my opinion..if we buy him at that kind of money of course.
Tip top 2
17-01-2016
Hiddink is still unbeaten as Chelsea manager, and given the horrendous start to the season, he's doing a very good job.

Courtois - no problems, one of the best in the world

Ivanovic - a big problem at rb. All three Everton goals came from the left, and it's been happening all season. It's a big weakness, and has to be plugged

Terry - still delivering, but needs a fast defender alongside him.

Zouma - the fast defender. Still learning, and seems to be learning fast

Cahill - not quick enough to play alongside Terry regularly. Still very good though

Azpi - no problems

Rahman - have not seen enough of him to judge. The transfer committee at the club needs scrutiny. They keep spending £20 million + on foreign players, while other PL teams are spending a fraction of that and getting much better value. Leicester case in point obviously

Mikel - a new lease of life. Great

Ramires - still think he's a very good squad player to have on hand. Knows the club

Matic - what has happened? On paper, him and Mikel deep should not allow any strikes on goal at all. It's not happening though is it? A problem

Fabregas - seems a lot better playing deeper, but is weak on the whole in his tackling

Hazard - I'd keep him at all costs, and think he's worth more than £80 million. At his best, when injury free he's a game changer and up there with Messi and co. Irreplaceable imo

Willian - yes he runs a lot, but the free kicks have dried up, his corners are inconsistent, his shooting sporadic, his passing can be atrocious, and yes he's a very good player, but not when he's relied on to distribute quickly and accurately.

Mata 'just passes' ?! So what? Iniesta did similar, along with Xavi and other greats. If he 'just passes' very quickly and very accurately, he will change the dimension of the side. He also takes brilliant corners and free kicks, and scores important goals. Plus he stays injury free, and is very consistent, as long as gets the ball a lot. Come back, Mourhino's gone now

Luiz - ditto

Pedro - let him go and bring Mata back in

Oscar - showing good heart and attitude

Costa - back to his brilliant best. A true blue

Remy - not quite good enough, and too unreliable. We need another fighter

Kenedy - keep on giving him minutes on the pitch. Similar RLC and even Traore plus other youngsters when the time's right
Dixon
17-01-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Last I heard it was £45m ! Ridiculous price in my opinion, more than double the price he is realistically worth. We signed Zouma for £12m, same age but probably further advanced than Stones right now.
Stones has enormous potential, but at present that's what it is..potential. Do we really want to pay that kind of money for someone who is far from being a guaranteed starter ?”

Without his pace Zouma would be playing 3rd division football. His positioning and reading of the game is poor as his lumbering footwork. We need to look for better than him if we are to ever get back to where we want to be!
Poor. old Ivanovich looks as slow as a carthorse these days. It's a sad sight watching him hopelessly trying to chase back. The heart is as willing as it always was but his legs have gone and we desperately need to replace him next season!

It's quite staggering how ordinary we look these days. At the start of the season we looked unfit and nearly every player was having stinkers. We are now fitter and nobody is playing seriously bad, but we still look a million miles away from being a confident, quality side.
It has to be something deeper than Jose just losing the players. What it is? i have no idea!
Jokanovic
17-01-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Without his pace Zouma would be playing 3rd division football. His positioning and reading of the game is poor as his lumbering footwork. We need to look for better than him if we are to ever get back to where we want to be!
Poor. old Ivanovich looks as slow as a carthorse these days. It's a sad sight watching him hopelessly trying to chase back. The heart is as willing as it always was but his legs have gone and we desperately need to replace him next season!

It's quite staggering how ordinary we look these days. At the start of the season we looked unfit and nearly every player was having stinkers. We are now fitter and nobody is playing seriously bad, but we still look a million miles away from being a confident, quality side.
It has to be something deeper than Jose just losing the players. What it is? i have no idea!”

Jose departing really has made little difference apart from Costa is scoring goals.
To be honest I am not sure either. This is basically the same team that won the league in a canter last season.
I am hoping that out of somewhere everyone finds form, especially Hazard as he's a potential match winner. We need a few big match performances.
Big job and rebuild for the new manager.
RichmondBlue
17-01-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Without his pace Zouma would be playing 3rd division football.”

Just when you think it can't get any more ridiculous, you come across something like that. Even Robert Huth isn't playing 3rd division football !
Do you think Zouma woud have got anywhere near the French team if he was as bad as you seem to think ? They have a few better central defenders than England possess right now.
Doghouse Riley
17-01-2016
I don't think Terry was off-side for his goal.
It took a relatively long time before it reached him. If you watch this frame by frame at the moment of impact when the ball starts traveling towards him, he's level. By the time it gets to him he's "a yard off-side."
So under the laws, he wasn't. Good call by the assistant referee.
Dixon
18-01-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“I partly blame the idea of turning Chelsea into a "Barcelona in blue" that seemed to be the aim a few years ago. I enjoyed watching Hazard, Oscar and Mata as much as anyone, but were we creating a team suited to the Premiership ? .”

I don't understand this point at all!

It is not styles of play that win titles, it's having very good players in a side that is well balanced without serious weaknesses.
Arsenal have not been winning titles because of their style of play, it's because they had glaring weaknesses and their players were simply not as good as the ones that were winning titles for them.

Under Rafa [no, i don't want to go into all that up again please] our problem was not anything to do with Hazard, Mata and Oscar. it was in front and behind them that was the problem!
His first season, Oscar had by far his best season for us! Mata was scoring and creating goals for fun and Hazard was full of potential. We had found the best position for Luiz. We needed to develop this in the years to follow by signing more and more technically gifted players.

If we had added a world class striker scoring 25 goals a season for us and a couple of mobile, fast defensive midfielders to what we were building we would have been good enough to win a title or two and another CL title along the way.
A world class striker in front of Mata, Hazard and Oscar would have scared any team in Europe!
Dixon
18-01-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Just when you think it can't get any more ridiculous, you come across something like that. Even Robert Huth isn't playing 3rd division football !
Do you think Zouma woud have got anywhere near the French team if he was as bad as you seem to think ? They have a few better central defenders than England possess right now.”


I admit that i have blindspots about certain players - Mikel and Ramires.
I also don't rate our keeper as highly as most. Yes, he's good but not the great keeper some seem to think he is.
I'd rate him only the 4th best in the Premiership behind De Gea, Hart, Butland and even a past his best Cech.
The_don1
18-01-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I don't understand this point at all!

It is not styles of play that win titles, it's having very good players in a side that is well balanced without serious weaknesses.
Arsenal have not been winning titles because of their style of play, it's because they had glaring weaknesses and their players were simply not as good as the ones that were winning titles for them.

Under Rafa [no, i don't want to go into all that up again please] our problem was not anything to do with Hazard, Mata and Oscar. it was in front and behind them that was the problem!
His first season, Oscar had by far his best season for us! Mata was scoring and creating goals for fun and Hazard was full of potential. We had found the best position for Luiz. We needed to develop this in the years to follow by signing more and more technically gifted players.

If we had added a world class striker scoring 25 goals a season for us and a couple of mobile, fast defensive midfielders to what we were building we would have been good enough to win a title or two and another CL title along the way.
A world class striker in front of Mata, Hazard and Oscar would have scared any team in Europe!”

But not teams in the League.

This obsession with being the best team in Europe before we have built a solid foundation in the league is part of the reason we are where we are.
The_don1
18-01-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I admit that i have blindspots about certain players - Mikel and Ramires.
I also don't rate our keeper as highly as most. Yes, he's good but not the great keeper some seem to think he is.
I'd rate him only the 4th best in the Premiership behind De Gea, Hart, Butland and even a past his best Cech.”

And Willian of course
Dixon
18-01-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“And Willian of course”


To be fair, he has been more positive and added some 'end product' to his endless running this season. That is all i was asking from him!
Just endless running round the pitch with no real purpose is not what should be good enough for Chelsea!
Dixon
18-01-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“But not teams in the League.

This obsession with being the best team in Europe before we have built a solid foundation in the league is part of the reason we are where we are.”


I did say the Premiership as well as the CL.
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