Well they haven't lost for once and have showed some fight in games.

Do you think the players would have been sold if they were getting adequate gametime? Luiz obviously had to be sold at that price but other than him the players were not in José's first team plans.


I think it is clear when you watch the players reactions. I believe the board are partially to blame(in not getting targets) however the Eva case is probably enough to breach a contract(although Mourinho says there's more to it, we'll see with the court case)

Quotes in the media from the actual players don't suggest much. Emenalo says straight away that the reason the manager was sacked was because of a 'palpable discord' which if correct suggests that Mourinho lost the dressing room and suddenly Chelsea are not losing games. Now there are two ways to solve the situation.

1. Let Mourinho sell half the players and build a new team which will require another couple seasons of rebuilding.
2. Sack the manager in the hope that players return to form and then build piece by piece.

Abramovich was willing to give him time when others would have been sacked by October, so clearly the situation must have got really bad from the inside. The season by December was a writeoff, so really the easiest option would just be to just wait end of season(like he's mainly done with most managers, other than AVB who lost the dressing room and Scolari who was in danger of missing CL football). Clearly something more than this happened.

"showing some fight" are they going to war or something? It more nonsense trotted out like "playing for the shirt" etc etc to try and show football is different then any other sport which it is not. Its more emotive language that is used mainly by media and pundits to dumb down football for Sun readers and their like.

Even with the change in manager the performances have not changed, For most of the Everton game the players performed as bad as they have all season (at some points it was arguable even a lower standard) while yes we have not lost yet you always have to ask questions to see what the bigger picture is. Have those wins been due to a increase in performance? Who have we been playing? How did they perform? etc etc etc. Its to simplistic to say "We have not been beaten"

People used "performance" as a stick to beat Jose with when he was getting results and yet are now saying "We have not lost since he left" while ignoring the performances.

Of course everyone at the club has to take a degree of responsibility and that includes Jose but we have a bunch of players (and some fans) who seem to think the UEFA Cup and double points away from the title is a successful level and board who have made more mistakes over the last ten years then they have made correct ones (not really talking about sales as most was logical at the time and dealing with the actual situations at the time and not peoples views of what should be happening) and a very difficult manager who has a challenging (at best) personality but has always bought success. All parties have made major mistakes but which one is more likely to be successful going forward? Who is going to win a title first? This bunch of players? The Chelsea Board? Or Jose?

I pretty confident it wont be this bunch of players no matter who the manger is, The Board? If they use 50% of the resources available to them and get the most basic decisions to them then it is quite possible but to do that they need to learn from their past mistakes and I not sure they can do that. I don't think they are quite as bad as some make out, Its not easy when you have one man making all the decision's, and that man is as private as Roman is and has a very close inner circle. I think we need to do some culling here and there mainly Emenalo his interview alone should have been a sacking offence (although who ever in charge of media and public relations should never have let him go on camera without script) but we need changes at the senior positions (someone like Trevor Birch coming in I don't think would be a bad thing as CEO).

With the Premiership is its current state and with the number of teams getting new grounds and the new TV deals coming in etc etc, We cannot afford to spend time "rebuilding" from spending time in the top 6, Its an awful business plan. While it might have some credence in a ideal "football world" it's has nothing to do with reality. The place we have put ourselves in means we are going have to do such things on the fly, Not ideal I agree but its where we are. Its more then possible to do if we get the right people in the right places

I thought a ''bad year'' was when we finished 6th the season we won the CL.
This season has been more like a complete meltdown. The big worry though is that it is not just this season. The signs were there during the second half of last season. We got away with but sooner or later mediocre/ poor performances will catch up with a team and they will start getting the results they deserve.
Man UTD are equally dreadful though and look a million miles away from the feared team they were for 20+ years. At least we are quite fun and entertaining in our current awfulness and not just stinking the joint out like UTD are week in week out.
It's quite shocking to see these two teams in the state that they are in and how rapidly they have fallen.

But sometimes a club needs to take a couple of steps backwards to start really moving forward again. We did that under Claudio, winning no Cups but making strides as a league team.
It is time to have a good think about the direction we want to go and start the rebuild that is needed. As a fan i would accept us not being serious challengers for a few years, if at the end of it we had a fresh, new team that would be ready to challenge for the 'big ones' again.

Not sure why you don't include Liverpool as they are no nearer winning the league than United are.
Still miles away from their holy grail.

But your views as a fan (or any fans) are not important. Talking about what we did when Roman first came is irrelevant as we are now a totally different club with very different KPI's and a very different business model.

The business part of the club would find it very hard to deal with not being "serious contenders" for a few years more so with the building of the new ground and more clubs ahead of us at the "rebuilding stage". While yes I agree we need to take something of a step backwards the reality of today's game is that is a very very risky strategy and one that if you look at the history of the Roman years their is no evidence that the people who make the decisions could actually put in practice with any degree of success. We have to adapt "the step's back" idea but with one that results in the same results but maintaining at least the top 4, difficult yes but one that should be quite achievable with the resources at our disposal.


Utd have shown a season of not being in the Champions League is not really a hardship (not saying we are at their level as a business but more it is possible), ignoring all the rubbish about them being "boring". While it's not gone as well as I expected there (I think the Shaw injury is a major factor) this season I not sure things are quite as bad as is being reported.

Courtois "Ivanovic" Zouma Terry Azpilicueta Mikel Matic Willian Fabregas Oscar "Diego" Costa

Begovic Cahill "Baba Rahman" Loftus-Cheek "Traore" Hazard Remy

That's a very pragmatic team - almost Mourinho-like with both Mikel and Matic playing.

Think well park 2 Busses to day. BTW another stinker from Stones.

Nice roll from Costa, but it was a foul. .nice goal as well,

Our best 45 mins of the season ? I think so, given the supposed quality of the opposition. Some good performances throughout the team.
Couple of nice offside runs from Theo Walcott, we're probably lucky he didn't time them better. We still have to be careful and concentrate, but so far it's looking good.

I thought it was a definite red card. Not a great deal of contact but that doesn't matter.

Bring Haz on

What are we doing whos got 10 men?

Where's our Arsenal friend terry45 today. What's up son

A great result and much needed three points.

Costa was brilliant again, although Remy when he came on looked ineffective and Costa needs a decent back up there. Falcao and Remy should be moved on imo, as long as decent replacements can be brought in.

A bit worrying the lack of a second goal, although the defence along with Mikel and Matic did well, and worked well together. As long as Mikel and Matic aren't getting in each other's way, the pairing should make the team very strong - in theory at least.

Ivanovic was more cautious in his runs forward this game, and did better defensively. Great cross for the goal, and if he can get that balance between attacking and defending right, he could still be an asset.

Oscar looked better as well, and with Hazard coming back, things are definitely looking up. Consistency still the key though.

Surprisingly Fabregas performed very well as an AM but that defensive midfield pairing is not a great pairing if Chelsea want to break down teams or if a team is pressing them hard unlike Arsenal were doing. Chelsea really should have gone for the second but near the end of the game Remy messed up plenty of opportunities by poor touches/straying offside so there's not much to complain about wrt attacking, more so how wasteful Chelsea were with counter attacking opportunities. Hazard was quite good today as well for the little time he was on the pitch.

Still unbeaten and while not playing at the level of last season managing to avoid defeat.

To add to that point, the team won the title last season, you add a central midfielder and a top class CB to partner Zouma long term and you got a top team ready to win the title if the players are on form. It's not rocket science and a rebuild is not necessary. Possibly a goalscoring AM like Alex Teixeira if Pedro and Oscar are not up to it.

Prob sitting around sipping a latte moaning about the nasty man Drogba sorry mean Costa and how they cannot win a competitive game against Jose sorry mean Guss

It's a no from me on Stones. He's not remotely close to being worth the money that would have to be offered to tempt Everton into selling him.

We sold Luiz for a ridiculous amount of money, so why we would we then spend a similar amount on Stones?

I'm not a sun/daily fail reader. They came back from the everton game twice. If that's not showing fight I don't know what is. The players didn't look bothered after the defeats earlier.

Look at Dortmund last year and how with about 1 first XI signing(Weigl who starts) they are in the title race when they were 18th around Xmas 2014? Chelsea are not as bad as you make them out to be.

Like I said before, add a goalscoring midfielder(if Pedro/Oscar/Willian do not improve in that regard), add a box to box midfielder(like what was suggested earlier, maybe integrate Loftus Cheek) and add a CB long term to play with Zouma and the team looks better.

Courtois
Azpi, Zouma, new CB, Rahman
Matic, Fabregas
Willian, new AM, Hazard,
Costa

Begovic, Ivan, Christensen, Terry, Cahill, Kenedy, Pedro, Oscar, Remy, Pato, Mikel, Ramires. Loftus Cheek.

If you're telling me a team like this ain't capable of winning a title I'd disagree.

I don't care if they "showed fight". Its not important. They are professionals (or should be). I don't think coming back from playing a very poor Everton side while playing very poor is something to be talked up. They still played very very poorly. We need to stop with the football jargon of "losing the dressing room" and "fighting for the shirt" and "having passion" etc. Are they playing at their best? No even close, Are they playing better then they was? Are they playing better then they was? In very small doses but still no where near where they should be. Any team can have a off day of course but this has been going on to long and there is not enough improvement. To be a top top talent you need to bring your A game 9/10 and the times you don't you should be still able to get something. The least any top professional should do is their best and to often a few players have not done that this season (and are still not doing so).

Cesc had a very good game at the weekend but that was always on the cards, Arsenal play to his strength's while most of the teams in the league play to his weaknesses.

So appointing managers like Big Phil, AVB etc was not mistakes? Only 2 managers have won titles and its the same two got within a decent points total of the team that came first. "Not doing badly" is not a acceptable level. Rafa still finished double points behind the leaders no matter what happened in the season and what trophy we won that's not the level needed at Chelsea. The board have also bought a number of players who are not good enough over the last 10 years. Its not just sacking managers where we have made mistakes its appointments of key staff behind the screens,Its the way they tried to buy back the bridge, Its the letting go of people behind the screens etc, Its buying players like Torries. Roman and the board have done some wonderful things at Chelsea but most of the time it seems to be either a massive success or an awful mistake we have serious problems at hitting a middle ground.

Of course the players listed on paper should be able to win the titles but we have been saying the same about Arsenal for years and they have failed to even come close and I think that's where we are at the moment. We have a squad capable of winning titles but in reality they are not able to perform over the course of the season (or season's).

The German league is very very different to ours. Its becoming very congested in the top half more then it has ever been and with the money flooding into our game (and West Ham and Spurs and Liverpool and maybe Everton all getting new grounds) its going to be very hard to get into or stay in that pack, I not sure we can take the risk of keeping some of the players with their current levels (and the ones at times from last season and performances from seasons before). If this was 3 or 4 seasons ago I would agree its worth a chance and give them a chance but today? I not sure we can take the risk, The league is changing to much and to fast for us to sit still.

Very much so. It could just as easily be said that they showed fight away at Newcastle when JM was still manager, which much like the Everton game would be papering over the cracks of what was essentially another poor performance against a mediocre side.

Appointing Scolari. Who else was available?

Appointing AVB, who else was available?

Ancelotti should have been kept but his league title record is poor anyway considering the teams he's managed if that's what you're looking for. Realistically with Chelsea's squad in 09/10 and United selling Rooney+Ronaldo and Liverpool with Alonso Chelsea were most likely going to win that title.

Comparing Chelsea's situation and squad to Arsenal who have been trying to pay off a 400M pound stadium? They have only realistically had a title challenging squad after Henry and Viera left when Ozil and Sanchez came in.

AVB was sacked because he lost the dressing room. It's not jargon, players clearly made it obvious they didn't like him(Lampard in particular) and when that happens your team are not mentally ready to win games. You talk about bringing A game 9/10 times but if they're not mentally ready how can they do that and you are clearly not mentally ready if you have no faith in the manager?

They were able to bring the A game last season, it could be because of Mourinho, it could be because that is the players natural ability. Regardless though being 1 point above relegation at Xmas is not the players natural ability. If they were getting the same results now under hiddink as they were start of the season they'd mathematically be in top 4, 5 points away from the title with 15 games to go (43 points to be exact). Think about that.

When you consider the teams Chelsea have played so far under hiddink, it's not been an easy run either with two very tough away games. Clearly there has been an improvement.

Also you can't compare Everton to Newcastle simply because one team is clearly better than the other.

I think AVB was just not good enough (and has been proven by his jobs since then). He was not up to the job. Liking the guy is not important, Many players don't "like" managers or even players they work with but the job still gets done. Even if the players thought AVB was the greatest of all time he still would have failed as he just has not got the skills to manager at the highest level.

We are talking about players who should be at the very very very top level, Yes of course the manager and a relationship with him is important but at the end of day the players natural winning attitude and talent should overcome any personal views.

Eden for example is the type of player that should be at that level now. No matter what his talent is that no matter who the manager is no matter what tactics the team playing in the current climate he should be winning the team games not on his own of course but near enough, Yes he has been fantastic for us since he has joined but I really think he could have been an awful lot better, I don't think we have ever seen his very best and am now wondering will we ever? I could say the same about a few players and am not sure we have the time to see if they can do it. They have had more then enough time and more then enough chances to show us their natural ability and even last season although we won the title I not sure even then they did. How many more changes do we give them?

I think you are overcomplicating the game.

Football's a complicated sport. If it was that simple all of us would be football managers/coaches or be board members.

I don't think AVB did badly at Spurs anyway, neither is he doing badly at Zenit. He probably has the skills, but Chelsea is a tough job for any manager to come into as a rookie.

If you look at Hazard, he's often being asked to work hard defensively, harder to do that and focus on attacking e.g. The next manager probably should get a CM(like Essien) to decrease the defensive workload of the wingers.

You look at Ronaldo e.g. at Real Madrid or Neymar at Barcelona, Ronaldo and Neymar are both the second advanced player on the pitch(i.e. likely to be in goalscoring positions). Hazard is being asked to create, defend and score goals. They are asked to create and score.

In other good news though. http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...-move-to-china

£25m for Ramires? Get the deal done at that price.

I wonder if Mikel fancies playing in China too?