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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)
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The_don1
23-02-2016
Originally Posted by jamtheman:
“Yeah Hazard's issue is clearly a fitness issue currently when before it looked like more.

Seen worse individual defenders than Rahman in a title winning/challenging side(City use Kolarov and Clichy...). Rahman is 21 years old and inconsistencies in form is common.

Cesc has never been able to play a full season at top form and that was clear when Chelsea bought him so unsure about the relevancy of that comment, especially when it's clear Chelsea need a box to box midfielder and will probably buy one in the summer to lessen Fabregas' load. If Ramires was actually good enough to play consistently in that position for cover then Fabregas would be able to play a whole season with more consistent performances.

The main thing of course is to keep the current squad but I don't think that is a problem.

I'm not sure if you lot are expecting Verratti and Bale but football doesn't work like that.”

We are setting very low standards if we say "I have seen worse teams with worse defenders". It's settling and that is something we should never do.

Where as I don't say we need to bring in a entire team we do need to look at the current players and see what they can do not for next season but if they can ensure we have credible title run season after season after season, If we don't finish at most 5 points behind the winners then we have failed.

Its not where we are that's the problem for me, Its where we could have been that's the issue. We should be so much further along now then we are.

The new ground is a major major project, Not only are we not moving (unlike Arsenal,City and West Ham) we have the C.P.O issue to deal with. The people involved need to be the very best we can get. They need to balance that with running the team etc, Are they capable? I not so sure
The_don1
23-02-2016
The Chelsea "project" (and that's not just the current players but the whole show) should be further ahead then it is, City are very close to us and that's in a shorter amount of time, We have not closed the gap on Utd, While not saying we should be close to them but we should be that much closer then we are.

We need the best of everything going forward as the league is going to get tougher and tougher as the new tv deal kicks in. Some clubs who was not that far from us are going to have access to more investment then ever before and even more when some get new grounds.

We need the best manager we can get.

We need the best players available to us.

We need the best C.E.O available to us

We need the best kitman(or person) available to us

We need the best publicity dept available to us ( that is something we really need to look at).

The end of the season is the perfect time to do that (we have had them before but failed to do so). If we not sure that every single dept is the best available then its going to cost us down the road.

If we look at everything and think we have got that then fine and we should go ahead making small tweeks here and there as needed but we should not be scared to make major changes if needed
RichmondBlue
23-02-2016
Lots of reports saying that Antonio Conte has agreed "in principle" to become Chelsea's next manager. Not sure what to think about that, he did well at Juventus but I haven't really followed his career. I would have preferred Simeone, but that's probably because he's just more familiar. What do others think ?
The_don1
23-02-2016
Decent enough choice, Very up and down career overall but on the main has performed.

Hopefully Italy will have a short tournament in the Euro's as the sooner he can start the better.

Would be one of a very short list of managers we could hope to attract who are also good enough.

Middle of the road appointment but I think that's about as expected.

Could have done a lot worse (Rogers,Rafa,Pellegrini etc)
Jokanovic
23-02-2016
He was my choice right from the start. Got some personality about him.
Mind you, I read on Sunday it was Simeone so I talk it all with a pinch of salt.
As The Don says, far better than those others.
Perhaps Dixie can tell us what Talksport are saying. Strange we never see him after a good result
carefree_blue
23-02-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Lots of reports saying that Antonio Conte has agreed "in principle" to become Chelsea's next manager. Not sure what to think about that, he did well at Juventus but I haven't really followed his career. I would have preferred Simeone, but that's probably because he's just more familiar. What do others think ?”

Conte would be an acceptable appointment but I would choose Simeone or Allegri over him. Allegri because he's won Serie A with more than one club, and took Juventus to a CL final, whereas Conte didn't do so well in that comp. As for Simeone it's hard not to be impressed with the job he's done at Atletico, keeping them competitive against the might of Barca and Real, and doing well in Europe too.

This is my list (in order):

1. Simeone
2. Allegri
3. Conte
4. Koeman
Jokanovic
23-02-2016
On a positive note, looks like there is still only one London team who has won the CL
The_don1
23-02-2016
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“He was my choice right from the start. Got some personality about him.
Mind you, I read on Sunday it was Simeone so I talk it all with a pinch of salt.
As The Don says, far better than those others.
Perhaps Dixie can tell us what Talksport are saying. Strange we never see him after a good result ”

Talksport people will prob be too busy say how wonderful Arsenal played while losing

As according to a "expert", Arsenal have done well when playing Barca, Of course results utterly and completely disprove that but hey what do results matter, Then again should I really expect any thing more from one of the spice boys
owen10
23-02-2016
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“On a positive note, looks like there is still only one London team who has won the CL ”

Also there is still only one Liverpool team who has won the Champions League
The_don1
23-02-2016
Originally Posted by owen10:
“Also there is still only one Liverpool team who has won the Champions League”

Ok then.

Very informative

.
jamtheman
23-02-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“We are setting very low standards if we say "I have seen worse teams with worse defenders". It's settling and that is something we should never do.”

That's not settling, it's simply the fact that real football is not like football manager where you can spend your 100M budget on whoever you want and win a treble every season. Baba Rahman is a fantastic young player who hasn't been getting enough games. Just look at the reviews he had in the BuLI where he was seen as a top 2/3 left back in the league. He gets games, he'll show himself to be a quality defender like he was initially.

I said I have seen teams win the league with a weaker squad, so I don't think that the strength of the current Chelsea team is an issue. Depth in all honesty is the main issue of Chelsea, which I have said where it can be improved upon already.
Quote:
“Where as I don't say we need to bring in a entire team we do need to look at the current players and see what they can do not for next season but if they can ensure we have credible title run season after season after season, If we don't finish at most 5 points behind the winners then we have failed.”

Well of course Chelsea are supposed to be challenging for the title every season but sometimes that doesn't happen. Barcelona were 8/9 points behind Real in 2012. Real were 15 behind in 2013, they win a double in 2014. It happens and whenever it does happen the team will try and strengthen itself to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Spoiler
Matter of fact is that Chelsea have been rebuilding since 2012. They changed their entire style of play with 3 AMs which takes time to implement results on the pitch. A new manager then comes in and tweaks that setup to a more defensive orientated side. Torres was the obvious issue that's now been dealt with and now the attack is fine bar for depth.

The real issue is simple, increase the pace of play in transition, get a Box to box player, a defender to replace Terry and use the million and one loan signings so that the players don't burn out like they did last season.


Quote:
“Its not where we are that's the problem for me, Its where we could have been that's the issue. We should be so much further along now then we are.”

Good luck doing that when Real buy the likes of Ronaldo and Bale for 165M combined due to the money they've accumulated over 50+ years of on the field success. Barcelona the same with Suarez and Neymar. They are established clubs who are able to afford that kind of transfer. Chelsea can't at this moment in time, especially now with FFP to consider. Fernando Torres is the closest to that kind of transfer for Chelsea.

Spoiler
Bayern are the special case here and they used the fact that they have a very good youth academy(which LVG did brilliant with) that formed the spine of their current team. This is the realistic level that Chelsea can get to, which is hard due to the lack of quality English players. Bayern have exploited a golden generation of German players.

Barcelona currently have the greatest team of all time because they supplement their world class youth squad(which Chelsea do not compare with in terms of integration with the first team) with absolutely ridiculous firepower. They have the greatest forward of all time in their squad and one of the best strikers of all time.


Quote:
“The new ground is a major major project, Not only are we not moving (unlike Arsenal,City and West Ham) we have the C.P.O issue to deal with. The people involved need to be the very best we can get. They need to balance that with running the team etc, Are they capable? I not so sure”

Spoiler
Yes, that is an issue that there is some concern with, but you would think that the Yokohama tyres deal helps negate that issue. No CL next season will be a setback, but likelyhood is that financially Chelsea are still better off than Spurs and are better off than Leicester and Liverpool. Top 4 is no issue, a title challenge is not an issue either considering the main teams(Arsenal United and City) are not doing spectacular either and need a lot of work to improve their squads just as much as Chelsea...


All in all, we agree that there is not much wholesale change needed in the side, but it is very hard to get to such a domineering level in the premier league. Bayern have first dibs on the german market, Real are super rich and Barcelona have the greatest attacking trio in history. On the pitch(bar for this season) there is not much difference between Chelsea and PSG. Juventus, Dortmund or Atlético in the past few years.

Realistically you're left with hoping the market for quality English players improves/using youth squad which takes a long time to implement or somehow finding the money for players like Bale/Rodriguez before Real and Barcelona get their hands on them.

These are literally the only ways that Chelsea can get to 'where they could have been.'
jamtheman
24-02-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Lots of reports saying that Antonio Conte has agreed "in principle" to become Chelsea's next manager. Not sure what to think about that, he did well at Juventus but I haven't really followed his career. I would have preferred Simeone, but that's probably because he's just more familiar. What do others think ?”

Simeone is not coming and has said this multiple times, he's a better manager to have due to his european prowess so he would be the first pick.

Conte did a fantastic job in the league for Juventus but wasn't very great in europe(got to Europa league semi final I guess) but he turned a Juve side that came 7th/6th regularly to win the title unbeaten in his first season. In his final season where he actually had a decent striker to use instead of Vucinic and Matri Juventus got the points record for the title with 102 points.

He definitely has high pedigree as a manager. The main issue is that he utilises 3-5-2 quite a lot, which means Chelsea need a quality CB and it doesn't utilise our forwards correctly. He does use 4-3-3 as his other go to formation, so I guess it's more the case of the fact he had 3 quality CBs that he needed to use. Bonucci in particular for his ball playing.

He tends to play more possession oriented football, but that's probably more down to the fact that there was a clear lack of pace in the juventus team with nobody running behind the lines as often. Reckon with the players Chelsea have got. He would play a more suitable style(4-3-3 namely with an emphasis on fast transition and high pressing).

Allegri I would prefer due to his notably higher tactical versatility and his better european pedigree.
ICT User 77
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Lots of reports saying that Antonio Conte has agreed "in principle" to become Chelsea's next manager. Not sure what to think about that, he did well at Juventus but I haven't really followed his career. I would have preferred Simeone, but that's probably because he's just more familiar. What do others think ?”

Originally Posted by jamtheman:
“Simeone is not coming and has said this multiple times, he's a better manager to have due to his european prowess so he would be the first pick.

Conte did a fantastic job in the league for Juventus but wasn't very great in europe(got to Europa league semi final I guess) but he turned a Juve side that came 7th/6th regularly to win the title unbeaten in his first season. In his final season where he actually had a decent striker to use instead of Vucinic and Matri Juventus got the points record for the title with 102 points.

He definitely has high pedigree as a manager. The main issue is that he utilises 3-5-2 quite a lot, which means Chelsea need a quality CB and it doesn't utilise our forwards correctly. He does use 4-3-3 as his other go to formation, so I guess it's more the case of the fact he had 3 quality CBs that he needed to use. Bonucci in particular for his ball playing.

He tends to play more possession oriented football, but that's probably more down to the fact that there was a clear lack of pace in the juventus team with nobody running behind the lines as often. Reckon with the players Chelsea have got. He would play a more suitable style(4-3-3 namely with an emphasis on fast transition and high pressing).

Allegri I would prefer due to his notably higher tactical versatility and his better european pedigree.”

Think it's all been summed up rather nicely in the above post and in my opinion Conte would be a great choice to manage the club.

As mentioned he turned Juventus from mid table strugglers to dominant champions. Andrea Pirlo and Gigi Buffon cannot speak highly enough of Conte after playing for him.

And is it not fair to say that some of Allegri's success at Juventus can be attributed to Conte's work?

He's one of the only managers to lead a team to an undefeated season, led the same team to three successive league titles, whilst finding top talent along the way.

Other managers like Klopp and Simeone might get the recognition but Conte deserves it too for the work he has done in his managerial career.

So if he is to be Chelsea's next manager, I would gladly welcome him to the Bridge in anticipation of the job he can do at the club.
RichmondBlue
25-02-2016
Rumours that Borussia Mönchengladbach are prepared to offer a club record €15m for Christensen. He's apparently had a great season so far on loan with them, and only 19 years old !
Admittedly, I haven't seen him many times, but he impressed me on those few occasions. An intelligent player with enormous potential and a touch of class. We would be mad to sell, and then pay £40/50m for Everton reserve Stones.
codeblue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Rumours that Borussia Mönchengladbach are prepared to offer a club record €15m for Christensen. He's apparently had a great season so far on loan with them, and only 19 years old !
Admittedly, I haven't seen him many times, but he impressed me on those few occasions. An intelligent player with enormous potential and a touch of class. We would be mad to sell, and then pay £40/50m for Everton reserve Stones.”

It is something we have to stop doing, buying great players and seeing them move on.

Stones should be off the table now. Play Christiensen and zouma next season
carefree_blue
25-02-2016
Christensen went on a 2 year loan to BM, next season will be the 2nd year of that unless there's provision in the agreement to recall him earlier.

I agree we should keep Christensen and see how he develops, but I don't think a Zouma and Christensen partnership is viable at the moment. You'd want a more experienced CB alongside either of them. With Miazga now at the club too, it's probably better to leave Christensen on loan at BM next season seeing as he seems to be doing well, and then take it from there.

Stones isn't needed, having already got a few promising young centre-backs.
codeblue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Stones isn't needed, having already got a few promising young centre-backs.”

We should offer terry a new 12 month deal, keep cahill and make sure brana is kept as cover as a CB only.

Get the new blood we already have in the team, rather than splash out on stones - already a one season wonder.

I am fed up of pundits making excuses for him. "hes young", "still learning his trade". Not what you look for in a £50m rated player.

I hope Willian sighs a new deal soon. He is really looking like the player we thought we had signed.

Pedro is also showing glimpses of why we signed him.

Here is a question, what are we going to do with Cuadrado? he is playing really well on loan.

Salah is also playing very well, its a shame Jose didnt want him and sold him!
RichmondBlue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Christensen went on a 2 year loan to BM, next season will be the 2nd year of that unless there's provision in the agreement to recall him earlier.

I agree we should keep Christensen and see how he develops, but I don't think a Zouma and Christensen partnership is viable at the moment. You'd want a more experienced CB alongside either of them. With Miazga now at the club too, it's probably better to leave Christensen on loan at BM next season seeing as he seems to be doing well, and then take it from there.

Stones isn't needed, having already got a few promising young centre-backs.”

No, I wasn't suggesting Christensen is ready to step straight into Chelsea's team just yet. I just don't want to see him sold on for a quick profit. Anyway, BM are probably (if the story's true) just testing the waters, but it would show that they are mightily impressed with him, they don't have a lot of money to throw around.
Having said that, I could see Christensen and Zouma forming a great partnership in a couple of years time. If all goes well, they would compliment each other. The power and strength of Zouma with the more cultured ball playing skills of Christensen.

Stones may become the player all the hype suggests, but he also looks a season or two away from that. For £40m+ I'd be wanting a player who is ready to step straight into the team and make a difference, it's too much to pay for "potential". Everyone was raving about Mangala, but he's been a disappointment since moving to Man City.
carefree_blue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by codeblue:
“Here is a question, what are we going to do with Cuadrado? he is playing really well on loan.”

I'd sell him, he's clearly better off playing in Serie A. I just don't think he's particularly suited to the physical demands of the Premier League. I don't know how many assists he's got but I see he's only got 3 goals in 29 appearances for them this season.

I do think Salah had some potential though, and agree that we should have given him more of a chance before offloading him.
carefree_blue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“No, I wasn't suggesting Christensen is ready to step straight into Chelsea's team just yet.”

Yeah I got that. That was more in response to what codeblue had said about playing both him and Zouma next season.

Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Having said that, I could see Christensen and Zouma forming a great partnership in a couple of years time. If all goes well, they would compliment each other. The power and strength of Zouma with the more cultured ball playing skills of Christensen.”

I do too. Hopefully with a couple more years experience and regular football under their belts they'll be ready to play together, as you say.
codeblue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“I'd sell him, he's clearly better off playing in Serie A. I just don't think he's particularly suited to the physical demands of the Premier League. I don't know how many assists he's got but I see he's only got 3 goals in 29 appearances for them this season.

I do think Salah had some potential though, and agree that we should have given him more of a chance before offloading him.”

22 in 39 games for egypt
9 in 22 for Roma

Jose selling him was another of his mistakes.
RichmondBlue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by codeblue:
“We should offer terry a new 12 month deal, keep cahill and make sure brana is kept as cover as a CB only.

Get the new blood we already have in the team, rather than splash out on stones - already a one season wonder.

I am fed up of pundits making excuses for him. "hes young", "still learning his trade". Not what you look for in a £50m rated player.

I hope Willian sighs a new deal soon. He is really looking like the player we thought we had signed.

Pedro is also showing glimpses of why we signed him.

Here is a question, what are we going to do with Cuadrado? he is playing really well on loan.

Salah is also playing very well, its a shame Jose didnt want him and sold him!”

I was happy enough to see Salah go, he never showed a great deal of promise for us even if his opportunities were limited. If Caudrado is playing well, good luck to him. But he's another I'd be happy to see off our books. Salah looked the better of the two in the PL, but Caudrado was terrible in the few appearances he made.

I think Willian is close to signing a lucrative new contract. He seems very happy with us so I can't see any reason why he wouldn't sign.

Agree with you about Pedro. He got a lot of stick from some fans, but it was an entirely new footballing experience for him and he arrived when we were in a mess. You don't get a CV like he has without being a pretty special player. It was only a question of whether he could replicate it in the EPL, and I think he can. He'll certainly be a valuable squad player (which he basically was for Barca) even if he's not an automatic first choice.
codeblue
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Agree with you about Pedro. He got a lot of stick from some fans, but it was an entirely new footballing experience for him and he arrived when we were in a mess. You don't get a CV like he has without being a pretty special player. It was only a question of whether he could replicate it in the EPL, and I think he can. He'll certainly be a valuable squad player (which he basically was for Barca) even if he's not an automatic first choice.”

Pedro was fantastic for us against citys children.

When our forward players link up properly and are in the mood, it is quite incredible to watch them.

We have a fantastic team (the players are PL champions after all), its just so sad that it went so very wrong at the start of the season.
Dixon
25-02-2016
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“Perhaps Dixie can tell us what Talksport are saying. Strange we never see him after a good result ”

I was getting over the thrill of us beating a team with 6 kids in it.

To be fair though, we are just about the only club left that shows respect and takes every competition seriously.
Even when we became the first CL champs to go out in the group stages the following year and could easily and maybe understandably have turned our noses up at the 'tin pot' Europa League, our team went out there and gave it everything they had.
it was a good trophy to win as it meant we became the only British club to have won three different Euro trophies.
batdude_uk1
25-02-2016
Apparently Conte will be your manager next season, happy with that?
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