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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


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Old 10-03-2016, 15:36
Dixon
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We cannot expect a wholesale clear out in one summer, but there certainly needs to be several major changes and improvements if we are to get anywhere near a CL place next season.

We are not solid enough in defence and we do not have enough fire power in the final third to overcome that weakness and outscore decent teams on a consistent basis.

As always, the place to start is at the back.
Two new full backs are crucial.
Cahill is nothing without Terry beside him!
A better keeper who is more than just a good reflex shot stopped would help a lot.
Fabregas disappears far too often in games and i do not think his fitness level is what it should be at this level.
Oscar continues to be so hit and miss. I thought we'd start to see the player of 4 years ago when Jose left, but that's not been the case. 3 consecutive poor seasons now. Must be time to try and move him on or, maybe give him one last 6 months under the new manager?
Hazard, will go for sure!
Please, Please, Please let this be the end for Mikel!!!!!!
Matic, has been dreadful for a very long time.

Really, only Willian and Costa have earned their money this season.
For all the effort, Willian is not the kind of player who makes that much difference to our team. He cannot lift a team with his talent the way a Hazard or Mata used to do but he's one we should keep.

The frightening thing is, what if we're mid table by Christmas next year? Does the next manager get the boot as well?
Next season there'll be at least 7 strong contenders for ClL places. it's going to be very difficult to get back into the top four. It's a heck of a job on his hands whoever it is!
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Old 10-03-2016, 20:46
Jokanovic
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I can't be bothered going thru your points but I do agree that it's a big job for the next manager and they must be given time.
Still, let's be grateful for what we have had. Huge success in the last 12 seasons and we have won everything. Supporters of bigger clubs than ours have never seen their teams win some of those trophies in their lifetime. Imagine Chelsea fans being able to say that eh
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Old 10-03-2016, 22:40
carefree_blue
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Bit of a stretch to say Costa has earned his money this season, he's only bothered turning up these past couple of months or so.
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Old 10-03-2016, 23:15
The_don1
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Bit of a stretch to say Costa has earned his money this season, he's only bothered turning up these past couple of months or so.
I think that mainly has been a fitness issue.

He is still not anywhere near 100% yet but is at least showing some serious effort into not only getting fit but also a decent degree of form unlike Hazzard is at the moment
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:17
RichmondBlue
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I think that mainly has been a fitness issue.

He is still not anywhere near 100% yet but is at least showing some serious effort into not only getting fit but also a decent degree of form unlike Hazzard is at the moment
Don't you think there must be something wrong with Hazzard as well though ? He seems to have lost something, and I can't imagine a young player would deliberately throw away a season playing below par. Even if he wants to get away I would have thought he would be out to impress other clubs ?
Mind you, there are a number of other players who have also under-performed. What's happpened to Matic for example ? It's been a very strange season.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:52
jamtheman
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Chelsea are not going to be midtable at Xmas next year ffs.

Most likely they will be in top 3 minimum.

Name me 4 teams that have performed better than Chelsea the past 2 or so months in the premier league?

Dortmund had a similar issue last season and this season they're in the title race with very little changes to the first team.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:09
The_don1
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Don't you think there must be something wrong with Hazzard as well though ? He seems to have lost something, and I can't imagine a young player would deliberately throw away a season playing below par. Even if he wants to get away I would have thought he would be out to impress other clubs ?
Mind you, there are a number of other players who have also under-performed. What's happpened to Matic for example ? It's been a very strange season.
Oh yes I think Eden as well came back unfit and has had injury issues this season.

Does he really need to impress other clubs? Has his possible transfer fee changed to any real extent? Or less clubs in for him?

Am not saying for a second he has not tried this season he is too professional for that but I do feel that with injuries coming back unfit and feeling its time to move on to a new challenge its just all come at the same time and has affected him to a major extent. This league is tough very tough and being at a club like Chelsea makes it even tougher. I think players like Eden have a set life span at a club before they need to move on and take on new challenges and I think he is at that time now, Its tough mentally over-here as well as the physical challenge, He has been kicked all over the place from day one. Look at this last week alone? Game on Saturday,Game on Wednesday and game on Saturday and that's not a one off and mentally draining games as well. Its hard and there is no let up and that is going to cause some issue with certain players. We have been extremely lucky with our players over the years JT,Drog,Cech,Lamps,Ash,Mikel etc have had the character to thrive in that sort of atmosphere.
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Old 11-03-2016, 11:33
The_don1
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Chelsea are not going to be midtable at Xmas next year ffs.

Most likely they will be in top 3 minimum.

Name me 4 teams that have performed better than Chelsea the past 2 or so months in the premier league?

Dortmund had a similar issue last season and this season they're in the title race with very little changes to the first team.
I am not saying for a second we will be mid table as I think a few teams are having a season like Liverpool did recently and next season will go back to their natural level (and also think Arsenal are now running on empty and unless Wenger goes this season it will slow turn bad) but I have to say results are not backing up these performances, we are now getting into a period where this continued drawing of games is becoming as costly as the loses at the start of the season. Can I see us getting 3 wins in April? Not at the moment. 9 games left of the season, How many will be wins? Normally I would say at least 7 but at the moment I cannot see us getting 5 and I think i am being optimistic.

We have made massive improvements from the start of the season but the draws have to some extent wallpapered over some stuff. Guss has done a great job in turning some of the losing games into drawing ones but he needs to start turning some of the draws into wins
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Old 11-03-2016, 13:14
Dixon
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I can't be bothered going thru your points but I do agree that it's a big job for the next manager and they must be given time.
Still, let's be grateful for what we have had. Huge success in the last 12 seasons and we have won everything. Supporters of bigger clubs than ours have never seen their teams win some of those trophies in their lifetime. Imagine Chelsea fans being able to say that eh

Of course, we are all grateful for what we've won over the last 12 seasons [i would go back further than that to when we won the FA Cup under Gullit] but we should all be wanting much more of that!
I hear that Roman wants it badly as well and is prepared to spend big again, but with the stadium rebuild on the horizon he probably wont spend the kind of money he wants and we need, so we might have to settle for top four being seen as success until the new stadium is up and running.
As for the new manager being given time? Why should Roman suddenly start changing the way he runs things after all these years? But the only way our youth will ever be given a chance is if the manager is told he will have the time no matter what the results are.
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Old 11-03-2016, 13:18
Dixon
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Don't you think there must be something wrong with Hazzard as well though ? He seems to have lost something, and I can't imagine a young player would deliberately throw away a season playing below par. Even if he wants to get away I would have thought he would be out to impress other clubs ?
Mind you, there are a number of other players who have also under-performed. What's happpened to Matic for example ? It's been a very strange season.
But Matic started to lose some form in the second half of the season and Hazard's form dropped off a cliff in the last half a dozen games or so.
I think Hazard looks burnt out and has lost a yard and a half of pace. Without that pace he simply can't skin players the way he once did.
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Old 11-03-2016, 13:25
Dixon
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Chelsea are not going to be midtable at Xmas next year ffs.

Most likely they will be in top 3 minimum.

Name me 4 teams that have performed better than Chelsea the past 2 or so months in the premier league?

Dortmund had a similar issue last season and this season they're in the title race with very little changes to the first team.

i see only Leicester dropping off next season.
With a lot more match day income, West Ham can only get stronger.
Liverpool can only become more consistent and be a genuine top four team again.
UTD must surely improve.
Arsenal will be Arsenal.
City will be red hot favs to win the title and my bet is they will stroll to the title.
I see no reason why Spurs should start going backwards.
Unless we improve, i could easily see us finishing about 6 - 8th place.
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Old 11-03-2016, 13:38
The_don1
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i see only Leicester dropping off next season.
With a lot more match day income, West Ham can only get stronger.
Liverpool can only become more consistent and be a genuine top four team again.
UTD must surely improve.
Arsenal will be Arsenal.
City will be red hot favs to win the title and my bet is they will stroll to the title.
I see no reason why Spurs should start going backwards.
Unless we improve, i could easily see us finishing about 6 - 8th place.
Why must Utd improve? They have a bunch of okish players to very good ones but nothing really special.

Liverpool cannot only become more consistent

West Ham is a long term project and the new ground will take time to get use too, They still have an awful lot of work to do
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Old 11-03-2016, 15:13
codeblue
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United and liverpool, and spurs and leicester will go backwards
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Old 11-03-2016, 18:36
RichmondBlue
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But Matic started to lose some form in the second half of the season and Hazard's form dropped off a cliff in the last half a dozen games or so.
I think Hazard looks burnt out and has lost a yard and a half of pace. Without that pace he simply can't skin players the way he once did.
Yes, but Matic was outstanding when he joined us half way through the previous season, and until his sending off last season. That appeared to affect him in some way, it's very strange.
We have so many players who have been sub par this season it's going to be difficult for the new manger. Costa and Fabregas didn't start playing until January. Hazard appears to be carrying an injury, and maybe Oscar as well. Ivanovic was awful at RB during the first half of the season, but he's had a few decent games in his old role as CB. Rahman hasn't taken to the PL and needs more time, but even the usually reliable Azpil doesn't seem quite the same. Then there's Courtois, as you say he doesn't seem to be commanding the box like he used to.
I don't think we need wholesale changes, we just need to understand where we are with these players. Do they see their future with the club, or have they got one eye on the exit door. At least with Conte we know he will only want players who are prepared to commit themselves 100% to the club and his ideas, but there's still a lot of quality among the players we have before we start talking about new additions.
Having said that, I think we will need to strengthen in numerous positions. We have ground to make up after our failure last summer.
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Old 11-03-2016, 20:58
carefree_blue
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Yes, but Matic was outstanding when he joined us half way through the previous season, and until his sending off last season. That appeared to affect him in some way, it's very strange.
We have so many players who have been sub par this season it's going to be difficult for the new manger. Costa and Fabregas didn't start playing until January. Hazard appears to be carrying an injury, and maybe Oscar as well. Ivanovic was awful at RB during the first half of the season, but he's had a few decent games in his old role as CB. Rahman hasn't taken to the PL and needs more time, but even the usually reliable Azpil doesn't seem quite the same. Then there's Courtois, as you say he doesn't seem to be commanding the box like he used to.
I don't think we need wholesale changes, we just need to understand where we are with these players. Do they see their future with the club, or have they got one eye on the exit door. At least with Conte we know he will only want players who are prepared to commit themselves 100% to the club and his ideas, but there's still a lot of quality among the players we have before we start talking about new additions.
Having said that, I think we will need to strengthen in numerous positions. We have ground to make up after our failure last summer.
It may well be a blessing in disguise not playing in the Champions League next year. If we'd scraped top 4 it would have just been papering over the cracks. At least this way if there are any prima donnas in the squad we'll hopefully be waving goodbye to them over the summer, and can then move forward with the players whose attitude and commitment isn't an issue.
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Old 11-03-2016, 21:11
carefree_blue
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United and liverpool, and spurs and leicester will go backwards
Leicester will find it much tougher next season juggling domestic games with European ones, there's no way they'll finish in the top 4 again.

I'd be surprised if Liverpool don't make any improvement once Klopp starts bringing the players he wants in, but it'll take time for him to overhaul that squad.

United can only improve if Mourinho takes over, but will continue going backwards if LVG sees out his contract.

Spurs are anyone's guess. Will be interesting to see what sort of signings they make in the summer.
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Old 11-03-2016, 21:42
TheSloth
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United and liverpool, and spurs and leicester will go backwards
Once Klopp gets a summer transfer window and a pre-season under his belt I don't think we'll be going backwards. Firmino took half a season to find his Premier League feet and we've had long term injuries in attack and defence. I'd be interested to know why you think we'll regress? I suspect it's more hope than expectation. I can see Leicester struggling with the schedule/expectations and Spurs being a threat again if their manager and top players stick around. As for United, it's down to whether LVG goes (and I think he will) and who they buy in the summer.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:16
RichmondBlue
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Interestingly (or perhaps not) our results with Guus Hiddink extrapolated over the entire season so far would have given us 53 ponts. Enough to place us in third position behind Leicester and Spurs.
I think we'd all agree that we haven't been all that great even with Guus. He's steadied the ship and we've avoided defeat, but we've not exactly set the world on fire. But perhaps that shows we wouldn't need to do that much to be challenging for the PL title next season ?
Of course, other teams will presumably improve, under new managers and with the addition of better players, but so will we. But reaching the next level, to compete with the very best in Europe, is still a lot further away.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:18
Dixon
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Why must Utd improve? They have a bunch of okish players to very good ones but nothing really special.
I think that's the same for us!
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:23
Dixon
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Interestingly (or perhaps not) our results with Guus Hiddink extrapolated over the entire season so far would have given us 53 ponts. Enough to place us in third position behind Leicester and Spurs.
I think we'd all agree that we haven't been all that great even with Guus. He's steadied the ship and we've avoided defeat, but we've not exactly set the world on fire. But perhaps that shows we wouldn't need to do that much to be challenging for the PL title next season ?
Of course, other teams will presumably improve, under new managers and with the addition of better players, but so will we. But reaching the next level, to compete with the very best in Europe, is still a lot further away.
The quality of the top four has fallen hugely over the past 3 or 4 years. As magnificent as Leicester have been, there's no way they'd have been at the top during the era when Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool were genuine top quality teams who were a threat to the very best in Europe.
Having said that, the standard of the mid ranking teams is a lot higher than in those days.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:26
Dixon
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It may well be a blessing in disguise not playing in the Champions League next year. If we'd scraped top 4 it would have just been papering over the cracks. At least this way if there are any prima donnas in the squad we'll hopefully be waving goodbye to them over the summer, and can then move forward with the players whose attitude and commitment isn't an issue.
It will be a blessing to miss out on the Europa League, but not the CL|
We will find it harder to attract the quality players we need without CL football.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:39
Jokanovic
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The quality of the top four has fallen hugely over the past 3 or 4 years. As magnificent as Leicester have been, there's no way they'd have been at the top during the era when Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool were genuine top quality teams who were a threat to the very best in Europe.
Having said that, the standard of the mid ranking teams is a lot higher than in those days.
Thing is now is everyone has money, not just a few teams, hence a much stronger mid-table. Next season they have even more as well.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:21
The_don1
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I think that's the same for us!
You might think that but is it based in reality or is more due to your one tracked mindset based on your personal likes or dislikes as regard to "style"?

These players have in the last 3 years have won a title and come something like 4 points behind the winners while these Utd players have done very little. These players have performed at different times throughout the last 3 seasons unlike the Utd players. Yes there might be questions over their ability to perform at a high enough standard long term but comparing them to the Utd team is ridiculous
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:23
Dixon
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Thing is now is everyone has money, not just a few teams, hence a much stronger mid-table. Next season they have even more as well.
And the simple facts remain in that we haven't been able to replace the great players we've lost in recent seasons with players of the same ability.
Those players we lost not only had top class ability, but the were also mentally and physically very strong and we had leaders on the pitch right the the spine of the team.
Now, we have players that are not only not as gifted, but can be physically bullied, not mentally strong enough to withstand spells of pressure and lack the on-field leadership of our former greats.
Pretty much the same thing happened to Arsenal, once when they lost Henry and Co.

It's going to be difficult to get back those qualities, no matter how much money we throw at it, or who the manger is.
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Old 12-03-2016, 13:25
Dixon
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You might think that but is it based in reality or is more due to your one tracked mindset based on your personal likes or dislikes as regard to "style"?

These players have in the last 3 years have won a title and come something like 4 points behind the winners while these Utd players have done very little. These players have performed at different times throughout the last 3 seasons unlike the Utd players. Yes there might be questions over their ability to perform at a high enough standard long term but comparing them to the Utd team is ridiculous
Yes, we've done better than UTD. Just saying that both teams have fallen from what they once were.
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