Of course not but if the football philosophy was wrong and not suited to the league the team is in then its a waste of time trying to go down that route.

And I repeat you are looking at a very small picture as with regards to this "mess" we are in as if you actually looked at the bigger picture and again the actual facts then you would see the "mess" is not quite as bad as the media sorry I mean you seem think it is

But he was not going to.

You can bring all the facts you want into it the most important fact is HE WAS NOT GOING TO PLAY.

It being better or not would only be proven by him doing that, Since he was not going to do that then its a pointless argument.

We would not have progressed any further under Jose!
He is far too limited in what he does and wants from his players.
He works them to death for a couple of years, they win something big then they stagnate and start to go backwards. The players also start to dislike and become bored with playing with a lease round the necks all the time.
Also, remember back then that we were not always selling out CL games. Against Rosenberg, the stadium was half empty and the atmosphere was like a library We were also not selling out our away allocation for many games, especially at places like Blackburn. Furthermore, we were seen as a deadly dull, boring team that many neutrals would draw the curtains if they were playing in their back garden. As champs we should have been big crowd pullers but some away games we saw average or even below average attendances when we were in town. All that had to change and it did when Jose left, and our worldwide support grew rapidly after he left as well.

Is this information coming from same place as your information about the Man City away game when you said we was not selling away tickets but actually sold more then ever before?

Are you denying the facts about the CL games and away games back then?
Yes, we might have sold more tickets for the game at City but we did not take up our full allocation.
We have a much bigger away support these days but none of that is down to Jose!

No but it had little to do with Jose and more to do with issues with ticket pricing at the time etc.

Away fans at the time had some issues with the club with regards to the policies at the time.

These was all part of the BIGGER issue at the time.

Away fans are a very different bred to fans who go to home games.

It has nothing to do with "style of play" most fans of a club don't worry about that more so when they are away fans.

Hold on there Dixie lad. You are now going back to when Claudio was sacked and say look at the mess now.
Well lets consider that after United we have been the most successful club and won EVERY trophy possible.
Most Chelsea fans would take that but you can't just because Mata was sold....
You are one strange fan not liking us winning trophies

Start thinking we're not i a mess then you're on the road to accepting Arsenal standards.
No CL football, which can only make it harder to attract the standard on new players that we need.
A substantial drop in income at a time when we are looking to spend huge amounts of money on the new stadium.
About to lose JT, with nobody looking like they can take his place as the team leader.
Hazard looking shot to pieces.
Doubts about the future of Costa.
A very weak midfield.
Still struggling to score and create against good teams.
Ivanovich clearly no longer top class.
Plus, we need to sort out our recruitment and youth policy. It is a farce to have 30 players out on loan. It is time to either give our youth players some kind of chance [in the League Cup for starters] or save money and scrap the system altogether.

Never said we did not have issues but its not quite as bad you seem to think it is.

You are the one who is closer to accepting Arsenal standards due to your obsession with style.

We have issues but none that cannot be fixed with intelligent and sensible business decisions.

Of course we might not make them but the options to do so are there

Please stop saying i don't like us winning trophies. It's getting very boring!

I am very happy with what we've won over the last 20 years! I was there when we weren't good enough to win a Egg Cup, so of course the last 20 years have been fantastic!
BUT, we have fallen a long way from where we once were,. despite winning a title last season. Long gone are the days when we could go toe to toe with any team in Europe. We need to try and get back to that level, not settle for scratching out draws and wins wherever we can.

I do not accept Arsenal standards! That is why i was happy for us to grind out the title in the second half of last season. I want us to win and win with style and excitement, but there times when winning is all that matters.

Never said you accepted Arsenal standards I said you was closer then I was.

Winning is all that matters.

Not at times but at every single time.

Of course there are times when that is not possible but as long as we keep that in mind and that is where are decisions are trying to get to then all is good. Yes we not doing that at the moment but we have options to ensure we get back on track, The options are clearly there its just if we take them or not

But you seem to constantly contradict yourself. I say the closest we have ever been to competing at the very highest level in Europe (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich sort of level ) was with Mourinho first time around. You appear to disagree, and consider that was dull football. I think you're crazy and that we played some wonderful football during that period..but of course you're entitled to your opinion.
But when exactly did we play this football that you admire so much, or have we never reached those heights ? We will start to resemble Arsenal if we go chasing pipe dreams. Arsene Wenger has been pursuing his dream of building a team who will conquer the world playing a brand of tippy-tappy football for years, it doesn't work in the PL.

I don't disagree with you, we are in a bit of a mess currently. We have been woefully negligent in not filling some pretty obvious gaps in the squad.
Our loan system does seem to "work" at one level, we've made some very profitable deals over the last few years. But the number of players who have actually come through to first team level is tiny, Courtois is the only current regular I can think of. So much so that I've almost given up thinking about the players we have on loan, it almost seems like a separate enterprise these days.

And you telling us Mata shouldn't of been sold isn't........ If you stop then I will....

Look, you tell us you are a long standing fan yet you talk like an absolute johnnycomelately as if we have some god given right to be successful.

Look at Liverpool and United. They used to dine at the top table but not anymore.
Arsenal has never dined there in Europe.

So we have to start a new era again. C'est la vie. The cycle has turned against us for a while. Hopefully Conte can come in and change that. Lets hope you give him a chance.

Fat chance of that. He's not even been appointed yet and Dixon's seemingly already written him off. He could win everything under the sun and still be criticised for it because we didn't achieve it playing like the Brazilian 1970 World Cup winning team.

But strangely if he was an ex-Luverpool manager he would be given a chance.
Funny one that

I wouldn't be too bothered if the spammers beat us today, as it might be for the greater good that they do. A defeat would put us further away from the possibility of Europa League football next season, which I'm keen for us to avoid. And if a win gives them a better chance of finishing in the top 4 in place of one of our main rivals then that's not the worst thing either.

True. I would like to at least see RLC play

For sure. I'd be starting him in every game between now and the end of the season. Give him a decent run of games to show us what he can do.

Agree about the Europa league place.

The manager has a tough job coming in and the Europa League is a distraction we don't need, Yes we will suffer financially but that is a hit worth taking when you compare it against playing on Thursdays,Travelling etc its a hit worth taking, Everything next season has to be put into the League, Playing catch up on teams around us after flying to good knows where playing good knows how won't help us.

If we do end up in it I seriously would not play any of the first team but play our youth squad (including senior youth players like RLC and Traore), If gives them some real experience of a decent level (unlike the level they current playing at) and also allows the manager to spend sometime with them and gives him a chance to see if their mentality is a right fit for his first team squad and also for them to learn what the manager expects from them. They also get use to the travelling that comes with playing for Chelsea. It would be a fantastic experience for them and a important part of their education

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd still like to see Europa League football next season. But there's a slim chance of that, so I'd just like to see us finish as high up the table as possible.
To be honest, I've not been impressed with the few appearances RLC has made so far. Just out of interest, what do other fans here think will turn out to be his best position and what player does he most resemble in his style of play ? I can't quite make it out in terms of what we expect him to become.

Agreed, that's what I'd do too if we find ourselves in it. Hopefully we'll avoid it altogether though, so that the manager can fully focus on preparing for PL games. It's an unwanted distraction as you say.

By my reckoning we need to finish no higher than 8th to be absolutely certain we don't qualify, as 7th might be a spot depending on where cup winners finish.

My question about RLC is do they want him to play on his performances this season or because he is "youth"?

If a player we had bought in on loan on a free or a low fee performed to the level he has played would we be demanding he play for the rest of the season?

He has the talent for sure but in a team that has had a bunch of players who on the whole have performed "ok" lately he has not really stood out but more looked on the same level. IMO he should be coming in and showing something different.

Are we so desperate to have a youth player making it that we not allowing him to gain his place on performance?

As to the Europa League I just not sure what we gain from being in it

Other than Kenedy having a chance to play in his natural position it's a very underwhelming line-up. Wonder if we'll finally see Pato today?

Courtois; Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry (c), Azpilicueta; Mikel, Fabregas; Willian, Oscar, Kenedy; Remy

Subs: Begovic, Baba, Matic, Loftus-Cheek, Pedro, Traore, Pato

Yet another no clean sheet! Cmon Leicester!