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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


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Old 20-03-2016, 19:35
Dixon
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Yep, definitely a player who held us back.
I said those players held us back from getting to the next level not the level we were at. Are you seriously telling me Ramires has a good first touch and is a good passer of the ball?
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Old 20-03-2016, 19:39
The_don1
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No you said he was a "crap" player.

Every single piece of evidence disproves that
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Old 20-03-2016, 19:39
Jokanovic
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I said those players held us back from getting to the next level not the level we were at. Are you seriously telling me Ramires has a good first touch and is a good passer of the ball?
What's the next level ?
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Old 20-03-2016, 20:34
RichmondBlue
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I don't think any player who gets 52 caps for Brazil can be called "crap", even if the current generation of Brazilian players is not the best we've seen.
Ramires wasn't the greatest passer of the ball or dribbler, but he did the job we bought him for in his first few seasons. I wouldn't mind betting that quite a few opposing managers would have loved to have in their squad at that time. He was one of those players that Cantona called "water carriers", every team needs them .
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Old 20-03-2016, 21:08
The_don1
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He is the type of player you need if you want to win or compete for the Premiership.
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Old 20-03-2016, 21:18
dend
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I actually was a fan of Ramires, as others have said, he wasn't the most skillful but he reminded me of the likes of Ji-sung Park who put in a good shift, tracking back and covering, with the occasional moment of brilliance(i.e. that Barca goal).

He had a place in the squad IMO.
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:15
Dixon
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I don't think any player who gets 52 caps for Brazil can be called "crap", even if the current generation of Brazilian players is not the best we've seen.
Ramires wasn't the greatest passer of the ball or dribbler, but he did the job we bought him for in his first few seasons. I wouldn't mind betting that quite a few opposing managers would have loved to have in their squad at that time. He was one of those players that Cantona called "water carriers", every team needs them .

Crap when compared to top class of the players we once had -Terry, A Cole, Makalele, Lamps, Ballack, Robben, Drogba et al.
Ray Parlour was on the title winning Arsenal but that doesn't stop him from being way below the level of Henry, Vierra and co.
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:20
The_don1
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Crap when compared to top class of the players we once had -Terry, A Cole, Makalele, Lamps, Ballack, Robben, Drogba et al.
Ray Parlour was on the title winning Arsenal but that doesn't stop him from being way below the level of Henry, Vierra and co.
Still makes both of them very good footballers
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:21
Dixon
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No you said he was a "crap" player.

Every single piece of evidence disproves that

A lot of Chelsea fans appear to have a soft spot for players who run around a lot. They don't care if they run around like a headless chicken (used to in that players case) or can't trap a bag of cement.
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:23
The_don1
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A lot of Chelsea fans appear to have a soft spot for players who run around a lot. They don't care if they run around like a headless chicken (used to in that players case) or can't trap a bag of cement.
In your opinion and once again every single FACT disproves your opinion which is based on your personal likes and dislikes
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:24
Dixon
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Still makes both of them very good footballers
Jack Charlton is a World Cup winner. I wouldn't rate him in the top few hundred of best English players.
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:25
The_don1
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Jack Charlton is a World Cup winner. I wouldn't rate him in the top few hundred of best English players.
And why is who you rate important?
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:33
Jokanovic
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A lot of Chelsea fans appear to have a soft spot for players who run around a lot. They don't care if they run around like a headless chicken (used to in that players case) or can't trap a bag of cement.
They care that they contribute to winning trophies and he did whether you liked that or not.
No team is full of superstars. The great United teams had their runners to do the donkey work.
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:33
carefree_blue
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So without going back and checking everything you know every single fact off by heart? OK, Ramires was signed by Carlo. Still a crap player who held us back.
I remember basic stuff like that, it wasn't even that long ago. If you don't then I suggest you look it up next time to avoid looking foolish.
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Old 20-03-2016, 22:38
The_don1
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They care that they contribute to winning trophies and he did whether you liked that or not.
No team is full of superstars. The great United teams had their runners to do the donkey work.
It's not even that where I think Dixon is talking complete nonsense

It call a player who is a full international has been a big part of the number of trophies won during his time at Chelsea and who has also received the personal honours he has as "crap" is maybe the most inane comment ever.

There are many players I don't "rate" who Dixon I am sure would call "world class" but I would not say they was crap because of a personal view.
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:03
Jokanovic
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It's not even that where I think Dixon is talking complete nonsense

It call a player who is a full international has been a big part of the number of trophies won during his time at Chelsea and who has also received the personal honours he has as "crap" is maybe the most inane comment ever.

There are many players I don't "rate" who Dixon I am sure would call "world class" but I would not say they was crap because of a personal view.
It's ridiculous to say a player with so many caps and has contributed to trophy winning teams is crap. It really is a nonsense.
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:12
The_don1
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It's ridiculous to say a player with so many caps and has contributed to trophy winning teams is crap. It really is a nonsense.
opinions have their place of course. But not when we dealing with these sort of things. There are just too much evidence disproving the theory.

You can say players at this level are not world class or fantastic player that's debatable there are many players who when have discussed with other football fans I have said are very good etc and been disagreed with and have myself disagreed with others who have talked but players but to dismiss their abilities utterly and completely like this really is going too far
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:14
owen10
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Do you think over the past few seasons Chelsea have not been buying the right players I mean what was the point in buying Alexandre Pato
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:29
Dixon
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And why is who you rate important?
I never said it was important.
Going by your logic, Geoff Hurst must be a greater striker than Jimmy Greaves because he has was in the team that won the WC and Jimmy wasn't.
You just look at the medal rather than actual ability.
You'd ignore the fact that Hurst was only there because Greaves got injured. Ignore the fact that Greaves was hugely superior and just look at Hurst having one magical match and forget about how truly great Greaves was for club and country for his whole career.
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:32
Dixon
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It's ridiculous to say a player with so many caps and has contributed to trophy winning teams is crap. It really is a nonsense.
It's ridiculous to think winning caps in an atrocious Brazilian team means anything. Pele would still be better than half of this sad bunch.
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:33
The_don1
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I never said it was important.
Going by your logic, Geoff Hurst must be a greater striker than Jimmy Greaves because he has was in the team that won the WC and Jimmy wasn't.
You just look at the medal rather than actual ability.
You'd ignore the fact that Hurst was only there because Greaves got injured. Ignore the fact that Greaves was hugely superior and just look at Hurst having one magical match and forget about how truly great Greaves was for club and country for his whole career.
Another pointless comparison that has 0 to do with the topic being discussed I would say Hurst was a very good player which he was. We are not discussing who is superior to who.
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:33
owen10
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I never said it was important.
Going by your logic, Geoff Hurst must be a greater striker than Jimmy Greaves because he has was in the team that won the WC and Jimmy wasn't.
You just look at the medal rather than actual ability.
You'd ignore the fact that Hurst was only there because Greaves got injured. Ignore the fact that Greaves was hugely superior and just look at Hurst having one magical match and forget about how truly great Greaves was for club and country for his whole career.
Do you think England would have still won the World cup if Jimmy Greaves was playing instead of Geoff Hurst
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:34
RichmondBlue
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A lot of Chelsea fans appear to have a soft spot for players who run around a lot. They don't care if they run around like a headless chicken (used to in that players case) or can't trap a bag of cement.
You really think a player with 50+ caps for the Brazilian national team can't trap a ball and just runs around like a headless chicken ? imagine how many young kids in Brazil would give anything to pull on the shirt for their national team..tens of thousands.
Ramires will never go down as one of their greats, but he must still have been an exceptional talent to get anywhere near the level he reached.
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:35
The_don1
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It's ridiculous to think winning caps in an atrocious Brazilian team means anything. Pele would still be better than half of this sad bunch.
And?

Nobody apart from you is comparing anyone to anyone.

Just because they are not as good as a random player has nothing to do with their abilities or level
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Old 20-03-2016, 23:43
The_don1
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Geoff Hurst 242 goals in 500 games, Player of the year for his team in 67,68,69 in the UEFA tournament team of the year in 68.

Yes Hurst was a decent player. Not as good as some but better then others.
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