Originally Posted by The_don1:
“But the media are never wrong????”
“But the media are never wrong????”
Unfortunately he's one of those people incapable of making his own opinion.
Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)
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Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“Unfortunately he's one of those people incapable of making his own opinion.”
“Unfortunately he's one of those people incapable of making his own opinion.”
These people watched the games and have seen how unhappy Italian fans are with what they are seeing.
Are you saying the media already have it in for Conte and are all ganging up on him and telling lies on a national radio station?
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“But the media are never wrong????
Or maybe unlike you Roman and the board actually do some research and not just follow what other people tell them. There is an awful lot to say for having and forming your own opinion
Did YOU watch the games they talked about?
How many Italian fans have YOU spoken to? Or did someone tell you that Italian fans are not happy?”
“But the media are never wrong????
Or maybe unlike you Roman and the board actually do some research and not just follow what other people tell them. There is an awful lot to say for having and forming your own opinion
Did YOU watch the games they talked about?
How many Italian fans have YOU spoken to? Or did someone tell you that Italian fans are not happy?”
Did you watch the Italian qualification games (i didn't and would draw my curtains if an Italian side was playing in my back garden) and they have listened to the reactions of fans. On the other hand, all you a
You see, being in the media it is their job to watch a lot more football than we do and also take time to look at fan reaction and all the stuff that surrounds football. On the other hand, all you and Banks are interested in is the result at the end of a Chelsea game. You don't even give a toss about what you're watching during the games.
I know which side I value the opinions of the most.
BTW. The late, truly great Johan Cruyff would disagrew with you guys on almost everything you stand for on the game. That is the man who not only won but buult the Barca club that we see today.
I just don't see the point when in 2016 when we have so much access to football people will try to discuss a appointment such as this armed with nothing more then other peoples views (no matter how much you "respect" them). Those people might as well come on here and discuss the appointment and cut out the middle man. There is not excuse in today's football world for someone not to do the research apart unless they cannot be bothered and would just rather be lead by someone else (no matter how much you "respect" them). There is so much information available and such a dumbing down (for example instead of doing some actually journalism they compare two different managers so to make it simple for the readers/viewers) that any "football" fan should want to do their research into it since they will be watching football more.
Its lazy, from the pundits and reporters and just as lazy from the fans. In the past it was understandable as access to real information about managers such as Conte was not easy to access, Even as recent as Jose first time a us we knew only the most basic information on him (but have to say as soon as his first press conference was over I knew 100% we won the title)
Of course they share some things in common. Most top top managers will do. Its what makes them what they are and separates them from very good managers like Rafa and why they are a success. But apart from the most basic "winners" mentality aspects like every "top top" managers they offer very different thing but the big thing they have in common is the results being on the main successful and at the end of the day that is the main KPI which they will be judged by and by the people who actually matter
Its lazy, from the pundits and reporters and just as lazy from the fans. In the past it was understandable as access to real information about managers such as Conte was not easy to access, Even as recent as Jose first time a us we knew only the most basic information on him (but have to say as soon as his first press conference was over I knew 100% we won the title)
Of course they share some things in common. Most top top managers will do. Its what makes them what they are and separates them from very good managers like Rafa and why they are a success. But apart from the most basic "winners" mentality aspects like every "top top" managers they offer very different thing but the big thing they have in common is the results being on the main successful and at the end of the day that is the main KPI which they will be judged by and by the people who actually matter
On another note.
According to the Daily Mail, Begovic is going to be given the chance to be number one next season.
Now, we do need a better keeper than Courtois, but Begovic is not the one!
According to the Daily Mail, Begovic is going to be given the chance to be number one next season.
Now, we do need a better keeper than Courtois, but Begovic is not the one!
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“I just don't see the point when in 2016 when we have so much access to football people will try to discuss a appointment such as this armed with nothing more then other peoples views (no matter how much you "respect" them). Those people might as well come on here and discuss the appointment and cut out the middle man. There is not excuse in today's football world for someone not to do the research apart unless they cannot be bothered and would just rather be lead by someone else (no matter how much you "respect" them). There is so much information available and such a dumbing down (for example instead of doing some actually journalism they compare two different managers so to make it simple for the readers/viewers) that any "football" fan should want to do their research into it since they will be watching football more.
Its lazy, from the pundits and reporters and just as lazy from the fans. In the past it was understandable as access to real information about managers such as Conte was not easy to access, Even as recent as Jose first time a us we knew only the most basic information on him (but have to say as soon as his first press conference was over I knew 100% we won the title)
Of course they share some things in common. Most top top managers will do. Its what makes them what they are and separates them from very good managers like Rafa and why they are a success. But apart from the most basic "winners" mentality aspects like every "top top" managers they offer very different thing but the big thing they have in common is the results being on the main successful and at the end of the day that is the main KPI which they will be judged by and by the people who actually matter”
“I just don't see the point when in 2016 when we have so much access to football people will try to discuss a appointment such as this armed with nothing more then other peoples views (no matter how much you "respect" them). Those people might as well come on here and discuss the appointment and cut out the middle man. There is not excuse in today's football world for someone not to do the research apart unless they cannot be bothered and would just rather be lead by someone else (no matter how much you "respect" them). There is so much information available and such a dumbing down (for example instead of doing some actually journalism they compare two different managers so to make it simple for the readers/viewers) that any "football" fan should want to do their research into it since they will be watching football more.
Its lazy, from the pundits and reporters and just as lazy from the fans. In the past it was understandable as access to real information about managers such as Conte was not easy to access, Even as recent as Jose first time a us we knew only the most basic information on him (but have to say as soon as his first press conference was over I knew 100% we won the title)
Of course they share some things in common. Most top top managers will do. Its what makes them what they are and separates them from very good managers like Rafa and why they are a success. But apart from the most basic "winners" mentality aspects like every "top top" managers they offer very different thing but the big thing they have in common is the results being on the main successful and at the end of the day that is the main KPI which they will be judged by and by the people who actually matter”
Your making it sound more complicated than it actually is.
Numerous football people, with no axe to grind, all watch the same thing and all come to exactly the sane opinion. They watched the games and they said how dull they were, how difficulr Italy found it to create and then took the time to listen to fan reaction. You don't need to spend time doind research afther all that.
Same with what's happened at UTD under LVG.
You don't need to do research to know all is not well .
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Did you watch the Italian qualification games (i didn't and would draw my curtains if an Italian side was playing in my back garden) and they have listened to the reactions of fans. On the other hand, all you a
You see, being in the media it is their job to watch a lot more football than we do and also take time to look at fan reaction and all the stuff that surrounds football. On the other hand, all you and Banks are interested in is the result at the end of a Chelsea game. You don't even give a toss about what you're watching during the games.
I know which side I value the opinions of the most.
BTW. The late, truly great Johan Cruyff would disagrew with you guys on almost everything you stand for on the game. That is the man who not only won but buult the Barca club that we see today.”
“Did you watch the Italian qualification games (i didn't and would draw my curtains if an Italian side was playing in my back garden) and they have listened to the reactions of fans. On the other hand, all you a
You see, being in the media it is their job to watch a lot more football than we do and also take time to look at fan reaction and all the stuff that surrounds football. On the other hand, all you and Banks are interested in is the result at the end of a Chelsea game. You don't even give a toss about what you're watching during the games.
I know which side I value the opinions of the most.
BTW. The late, truly great Johan Cruyff would disagrew with you guys on almost everything you stand for on the game. That is the man who not only won but buult the Barca club that we see today.”
Yes i did because it was more then likely we would be talking about them here so to form a view its a intelligent thing to do
When it was clear Conte was getting the job so to enable to form a view of my own of the type of manager he would be and if it was a good appointment or not I looked at his games and how he played etc. I like to form my own views on things, Never really been one for being told what to think
Don't you value your own opinion?
Why would I care what Cruyff says? I can form my own views. I heard he liked Semi-Skimmed milk, I think it tastes awful. He liked smoking, I think its a shocking habbit
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“The Conte thread is closed so I'm posting here
Another group of Journos and ex footballers have said Conte is very 'Jose like and then some' in regards to be pragmatic and doing litlle more than trying to grind out results by stopping the opposition playing, score a goal then shut up shop. Adding, if you want to watch attractive football you can forget it under this guy.
They (the media) talked about watching Italy's Euro qualifiers and even against the really weak teams like Malta they struggled to create. The Italian fans have not been at all happy with what they have been watching. So, even by Italian standards his football is awful to watch.
It must be a myth about Roman wanting to watch good football.”
“The Conte thread is closed so I'm posting here
Another group of Journos and ex footballers have said Conte is very 'Jose like and then some' in regards to be pragmatic and doing litlle more than trying to grind out results by stopping the opposition playing, score a goal then shut up shop. Adding, if you want to watch attractive football you can forget it under this guy.
They (the media) talked about watching Italy's Euro qualifiers and even against the really weak teams like Malta they struggled to create. The Italian fans have not been at all happy with what they have been watching. So, even by Italian standards his football is awful to watch.
It must be a myth about Roman wanting to watch good football.”
I think all managers need a ruthless streak, it goes with the territory. After a few years in the game, they nearly all become cynical and calculating as well. Maybe it was different in the days of Shankly, Busby etc, but times have changed. Brian Clough was a great manager but just as calculating and ruthless as Mourinho.
But to say Mourinho has no love for the game is just ridiculous. Nobody could study and devote their life to a profession with such great success without having a genuine love of the game.
It's true, he approaches the game with a pragmatism that you appear to dislike. He has studied what it takes to win games (or a better than average percentage of them) and tries to put this into practice. You get some (foolish in my opinion) people calling this "anti- football". To me it seems eminently sensible. Winning is the point of any game or sport. In football that doesn't matter if it's a pub team on Hackney Marshes or Real Madrid in a CL final.
That was my last reply to you in the closed Conte thread (why was it closed by the way ?) It's more about Mourinho, because that was who we were discussing at the time. But I think it could apply to most successful managers.
But as far as Italian football is concerned, I've met quite a few Italian supporters on visits to Italy over the years, and I can't remember a single one who gave a damn about "attractive football". Winning was everything, even more so than with fans in this country.
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Your making it sound more complicated than it actually is.
Numerous football people, with no axe to grind, all watch the same thing and all come to exactly the sane opinion. They watched the games and they said how dull they were, how difficulr Italy found it to create and then took the time to listen to fan reaction. You don't need to spend time doind research afther all that.
Same with what's happened at UTD under LVG.
You don't need to do research to know all is not well .”
“Your making it sound more complicated than it actually is.
Numerous football people, with no axe to grind, all watch the same thing and all come to exactly the sane opinion. They watched the games and they said how dull they were, how difficulr Italy found it to create and then took the time to listen to fan reaction. You don't need to spend time doind research afther all that.
Same with what's happened at UTD under LVG.
You don't need to do research to know all is not well .”
Yes but those people have done those things so can comment.
You have not done so. You are just following what other people are saying.
If they came here and said that then fine it can be a discussion but in your case your no more then a middle man for their views
what is a "football" person?
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“On another note.
According to the Daily Mail, Begovic is going to be given the chance to be number one next season.
Now, we do need a better keeper than Courtois, but Begovic is not the one!”
“On another note.
According to the Daily Mail, Begovic is going to be given the chance to be number one next season.
Now, we do need a better keeper than Courtois, but Begovic is not the one!”
I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss Begovic. He certainly played better than Courtois when in the team this season. Not that it particularly matters anymore with nothing riding on our remaining games, but he should be in the team now as Courtois' oform has not been great. It's not been a good season for Courtois, but he showed last season he can do better than this, so it's a bit early to write him off.
We've got bigger priorities to concentrate on with sorting the team out than which of those two are in goal next season though, in my opinion.
Who do you think we need to bring in for that position then? Maybe you can name someone you've actually watched, rather than just read about?
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“Yes i did because it was more then likely we would be talking about them here so to form a view its a intelligent thing to do
When it was clear Conte was getting the job so to enable to form a view of my own of the type of manager he would be and if it was a good appointment or not I looked at his games and how he played etc. I like to form my own views on things, Never really been one for being told what to think
SoDon't you value your own opinion?
Why would I care what Cruyff says? I can form my own views. I heard he liked Semi-Skimmed milk, I think it tastes awful. He liked smoking, I think its a shocking habbit”
“Yes i did because it was more then likely we would be talking about them here so to form a view its a intelligent thing to do
When it was clear Conte was getting the job so to enable to form a view of my own of the type of manager he would be and if it was a good appointment or not I looked at his games and how he played etc. I like to form my own views on things, Never really been one for being told what to think
SoDon't you value your own opinion?
Why would I care what Cruyff says? I can form my own views. I heard he liked Semi-Skimmed milk, I think it tastes awful. He liked smoking, I think its a shocking habbit”
So you watched them struggle to create against Malta and know the journos are not telling porkies.
Life is way too short for me to spend time watching Italian football. I would need to be a well paid journo to do that.
My point about Cruyff is to prove how out of touch yoy are when you keep saying football is all about winning, nothing else matters and me and other who think otherwise are in tiny minority. I think you, Jancs and some of the good -time Charley's who go to Chelsra these days are the ones in a small minority about is all that matters in football.
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss Begovic. He certainly played better than Courtois when in the team this season. Not that it particularly matters anymore with nothing riding on our remaining games, but he should be in the team now as Courtois' form has not been great.
We've got bigger priorities to concentrate on with sorting the team out than which of those two are in goal next season.”
“I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss Begovic. He certainly played better than Courtois when in the team this season. Not that it particularly matters anymore with nothing riding on our remaining games, but he should be in the team now as Courtois' form has not been great.
We've got bigger priorities to concentrate on with sorting the team out than which of those two are in goal next season.”
If we was to get big money for Courtois it might not a bad idea depending on who we bring in Begovic would do a decent enough job for sure and think he would be a decent league keeper but once we stepped up level opponents wise once back in the Champions League he might struggle.
It would be a risk but I would like us to get the Milan keeper and let him share being number 1 next season.
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss Begovic. He certainly played better than Courtois when in the team this season. Not that it particularly matters anymore with nothing riding on our remaining games, but he should be in the team now as Courtois' oform has not been great. It's not been a good season for Courtois, but he showed last season he can do better than this, so it's a bit early to write him off.
We've got bigger priorities to concentrate on with sorting the team out than which of those two are in goal next season though, in my opinion.
Who do you think we need to bring in for that position then? Maybe you can name someone you've actually watched, rather than just read about?”
“I don't know why people are so quick to dismiss Begovic. He certainly played better than Courtois when in the team this season. Not that it particularly matters anymore with nothing riding on our remaining games, but he should be in the team now as Courtois' oform has not been great. It's not been a good season for Courtois, but he showed last season he can do better than this, so it's a bit early to write him off.
We've got bigger priorities to concentrate on with sorting the team out than which of those two are in goal next season though, in my opinion.
Who do you think we need to bring in for that position then? Maybe you can name someone you've actually watched, rather than just read about?”
I like But land, very much, but he's injured and might not be ready to start next season.
Forster at Southampton is another fine keeper.
Obviously there's the keepers at Utd, City and Spurs, but we have no chance of getting them.
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“So you watched them struggle to create against Malta and know the journos are not telling porkies.
Life is way too short for me to spend time watching Italian football. I would need to be a well paid journo to do that.
My point about Cruyff is to prove how out of touch yoy are when you keep saying football is all about winning, nothing else matters and me and other who think otherwise are in tiny minority. I think you, Jancs and some of the good -time Charley's who go to Chelsra these days are the ones in a small minority about is all that matters in football.”
“So you watched them struggle to create against Malta and know the journos are not telling porkies.
Life is way too short for me to spend time watching Italian football. I would need to be a well paid journo to do that.
My point about Cruyff is to prove how out of touch yoy are when you keep saying football is all about winning, nothing else matters and me and other who think otherwise are in tiny minority. I think you, Jancs and some of the good -time Charley's who go to Chelsra these days are the ones in a small minority about is all that matters in football.”
No I watched those games because I like to form my own views about something. I have no interest in if they was telling "porkies" or not I watched them so I could see what type of manager we was getting. Just like I did when Rafa was given the job, from watching his games I knew he was not good enough to be a Chelsea manager.
We are not discussing our likes or dislikes on football, I know you like to drag things back to that since your obsessed with being a "football" fan. Its almost as much as your obsession with Jose (as proven with your constant posting about people comparing the two while not posting the ones that are not mentioning a comparison or maybe those "football people" are not respected enough for you).
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“These people watched the games and have seen how unhappy Italian fans are with what they are seeing.
Are you saying the media already have it in for Conte and are all ganging up on him and telling lies on a national radio station?”
“These people watched the games and have seen how unhappy Italian fans are with what they are seeing.
Are you saying the media already have it in for Conte and are all ganging up on him and telling lies on a national radio station?”
No, I am saying you seem incapable of forming your own opinion.
All you ever do is quote what the media say.
Why not wait till he comes here and give him a chance just like you did with Rafa.
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I like But land, very much, but he's injured and might not be ready to start next season.
Forster at Southampton is another fine keeper.
Obviously there's the keepers at Utd, City and Spurs, but we have no chance of getting them.”
“I like But land, very much, but he's injured and might not be ready to start next season.
Forster at Southampton is another fine keeper.
Obviously there's the keepers at Utd, City and Spurs, but we have no chance of getting them.”
Both decent keepers, and if we did end up selling Courtois for crazy money and needed to bring someone else in then I wouldn't be against us looking at either. They wouldn't come cheap though, due to their nationality and the new PL TV deal.
As it is though, I'm not convinced either would actually be any upgrade on what we've already got.
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“It would be a risk but I would like us to get the Milan keeper and let him share being number 1 next season.”
“It would be a risk but I would like us to get the Milan keeper and let him share being number 1 next season.”
Donnarumma? Not sure what sort of money it would take to persuade them to sell, as he's very highly regarded in Italy, but would certainly be worth looking at.
If he wants to leave, let him go. But come on people, Courtois hasn't become a poor keeper overnight. He was rated one of the best in the world, we let Petr Cech go because Courtois was going to be our keeper for the next 10+ years.
Originally Posted by Jerryn:
“Press suggesting Conte has talked Costa into staying and that Begovic is replacing Courtois as number 1 keeper. What do you all think?”
“Press suggesting Conte has talked Costa into staying and that Begovic is replacing Courtois as number 1 keeper. What do you all think?”
Costa drives me mad at times, but I do love us having a panto villian others love to hate. On form and working hard he also brings a lot to the team, so I hope he stays.
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“If he wants to leave, let him go. But come on people, Courtois hasn't become a poor keeper overnight. He was rated one of the best in the world, we let Petr Cech go because Courtois was going to be our keeper for the next 10+ years.”
“If he wants to leave, let him go. But come on people, Courtois hasn't become a poor keeper overnight. He was rated one of the best in the world, we let Petr Cech go because Courtois was going to be our keeper for the next 10+ years.”
Dixon is the only one that seems to have written him off. Unless he wants to leave or there's an offer that comes in for him which is too good to turn down, then I'm more than happy to see if he gets his form back on track next season, when hopefully the rest of the team will be playing a lot better.
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Costa drives me mad at times, but I do love us having a panto villian others love to hate. On form and working hard he also brings a lot to the team, so I hope he stays.”
“Costa drives me mad at times, but I do love us having a panto villian others love to hate. On form and working hard he also brings a lot to the team, so I hope he stays.”
WOW...we actually agree on something !
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“No, I am saying you seem incapable of forming your own opinion.
All you ever do is quote what the media say.
Why not wait till he comes here and give him a chance just like you did with Rafa.”
“No, I am saying you seem incapable of forming your own opinion.
All you ever do is quote what the media say.
Why not wait till he comes here and give him a chance just like you did with Rafa.”
You know my opinions on football and how I like it to be played.
My opinions are very simple and consistent. I hated George Graham's Arsenal - one nil to the Arsenal and off side at the half way line etc etc etc. Tedious beyond belief! I an not going to support that kind of manager just because he is manager at my club.
If he starts afresh at Chelsea and plays like a top club should try to play, then I will be more than happy! Simple as that!
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Both decent keepers, and if we did end up selling Courtois for crazy money and needed to bring someone else in then I wouldn't be against us looking at either. They wouldn't come cheap though, due to their nationality and the new PL TV deal.
As it is though, I'm not convinced either would actually be any upgrade on what we've already got.
Donnarumma? Not sure what sort of money it would take to persuade them to sell, as he's very highly regarded in Italy, but would certainly be worth looking at.”
“Both decent keepers, and if we did end up selling Courtois for crazy money and needed to bring someone else in then I wouldn't be against us looking at either. They wouldn't come cheap though, due to their nationality and the new PL TV deal.
As it is though, I'm not convinced either would actually be any upgrade on what we've already got.
Donnarumma? Not sure what sort of money it would take to persuade them to sell, as he's very highly regarded in Italy, but would certainly be worth looking at.”
Seen him a few times and he has some very good qualities.
Think we could do a decent deal for him. Even in our current state we are in a better place to get Champions League football and I think he will want to start pushing for that.
Think he only signed a 3 year contract so maybe a deal could be done. It is one worth looking at as he has shown a traffic mentality
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“You know my opinions on football and how I like it to be played.
My opinions are very simple and consistent. I hated George Graham's Arsenal - one nil to the Arsenal and off side at the half way line etc etc etc. Tedious beyond belief! I an not going to support that kind of manager just because he is manager at my club.
If he starts afresh at Chelsea and plays like a top club should try to play, then I will be more than happy! Simple as that!”
“You know my opinions on football and how I like it to be played.
My opinions are very simple and consistent. I hated George Graham's Arsenal - one nil to the Arsenal and off side at the half way line etc etc etc. Tedious beyond belief! I an not going to support that kind of manager just because he is manager at my club.
If he starts afresh at Chelsea and plays like a top club should try to play, then I will be more than happy! Simple as that!”
But that is not what your posts are saying.
They are all negative.
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“But that is not what your posts are saying.
They are all negative.”
“But that is not what your posts are saying.
They are all negative.”
They are negative because everything I have heard about him, from so many different people, makes him sound like my nighmare manager of Chelsea.
Yes, some players he has managed will say some positive things about him, because he did win 3 titles after, but then I wonder why the Italian league is now bankrupt and making billions less than our league. Their tedious football is made to look stone age when compared to the thrills and spills of our league.
Richmond says he never met an Italian who complained about style. Doesn't it ring some alarm bells that even they have been moaning about Italy under Conte?
Having said that and i will say it again. I will give him a chance and see what he does with us.
Just trying to play normal football for a top team is good enough for me. I don't think that is asking for too much.
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