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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)
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The_don1
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Yes, but you could say that Lukaku has already achieved much of that potential. Scoring 60 goals in 130 appearances in the PL with WBA and Everton is impressive whichever way you look at it. He's already a £30/35m striker (in my opinion) the gamble would be on whether he can make that extra step up.
I'm not saying we should try to buy him, but I don't think it would be the worst decision we could make.”

If we sold Costa and bought him in then I would be worried but if we kept Costa and bought him in as well then yep it would not be an awful decision.

He has improved since leaving Chelsea (when i was never his biggest fan) still got some of the same shortcomings but has done enough work on them for me to be not to worried if he bought him in. When he was here last time he was not good enough for the squad today he is
Dixon
24-04-2016
I don't ever see him becoming the next Drogba.
He simply doesn't have the athletic ability and movement that Drog had.
Drogba was the ultimate big game player who troubled the very best defences in England and Europe.
Lukaka looks short against the best but he will score a lot of goals in an OK team against OK level teams.
For me, there's still far too much of the great, lumbering giant about Lukaku, and add that to his less than top class first touch makes him a player not good enough for a team that wants to win the CL.
RichmondBlue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“If we sold Costa and bought him in then I would be worried but if we kept Costa and bought him in as well then yep it would not be an awful decision.

He has improved since leaving Chelsea (when i was never his biggest fan) still got some of the same shortcomings but has done enough work on them for me to be not to worried if he bought him in. When he was here last time he was not good enough for the squad today he is”

Yes, I agree. I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Costa, there are still question marks about his game. But I think Lukaku has done everything asked of him so far, every part of his game has improved. Mourinho was right at the time to let him go, he still had a lot to learn especially with his link-up play and he wanted guaranteed game time.
RichmondBlue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I don't ever see him becoming the next Drogba.
He simply doesn't have the athletic ability and movement that Drog had.
Drogba was the ultimate big game player who troubled the very best defences in England and Europe.
Lukaka looks short against the best but he will score a lot of goals in an OK team against OK level teams.
For me, there's still far too much of the great, lumbering giant about Lukaku, and add that to his less than top class first touch makes him a player not good enough for a team that wants to win the CL.”

There were Chelsea fans who thought the same about Drogba in his first season, he wasn't so great to begin with. Drogba joined us at 26 and probably didn't reach his best until a couple of years later. Plenty of time for Lukaku, and he looked pretty athletic when he went past three or four of our defenders like they were a group of traffic cones.
Dixon
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“There were Chelsea fans who thought the same about Drogba in his first season, he wasn't so great to begin with. Drogba joined us at 26 and probably didn't reach his best until a couple of years later. Plenty of time for Lukaku, and he looked pretty athletic when he went past three or four of our defenders like they were a group of traffic cones. ”

I'm nor saying he doesn't have some strengths.
I'm talking about him lacking mobility and nifty foot work and movement in tight spaces.
The same goes for Zouma. OK using his big leg strude moving forward in straight lines, but lacks the ability to adjust their feet and body quickly enough.
The top teams have technically very sound players leading their front line, not big bulldozers
Jokanovic
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“There were Chelsea fans who thought the same about Drogba in his first season, he wasn't so great to begin with. Drogba joined us at 26 and probably didn't reach his best until a couple of years later. Plenty of time for Lukaku, and he looked pretty athletic when he went past three or four of our defenders like they were a group of traffic cones. ”

I was one of them
Think it was his 2nd or 3rd season when we had a poor CL and he seemed to be very clumsy.
He improved so much with age to become arguably our best ever player.
Lukaku needs time. Whether he will ever be as good as Drogba is another question...
The_don1
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“I was one of them
Think it was his 2nd or 3rd season when we had a poor CL and he seemed to be very clumsy.
He improved so much with age to become arguably our best ever player.
Lukaku needs time. Whether he will ever be as good as Drogba is another question...”

I don't see him being a "Drogba" two very different people in terms of personality and style. Drog was just as good a defender as he was a centre forward. He would do a job all over the pitch,

What Lukaku will be if he continues his current development is someone who will just put the small object the players spending their time chasing into the netting at the end of the pitch. Will he always have games where he plays at his very best? Nope he might go a few games where he misses simple taps ins and games where he wont get a sniff but he will then go on a run of games where he is unstoppable
RichmondBlue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I'm nor saying he doesn't have some strengths.
I'm talking about him lacking mobility and nifty foot work and movement in tight spaces.
The same goes for Zouma. OK using his big leg strude moving forward in straight lines, but lacks the ability to adjust their feet and body quickly enough.
The top teams have technically very sound players leading their front line, not big bulldozers”

That's why I said..it depends what you're looking for. Nothing wrong with a bulldozer (though I think he's rather more than that) if it works for you. Lukaku also has pace, unusual for such a big man. In other words, he's a handful for defenders when he's at his best. We were all excited about signing Cavani a few years ago, he's not exactly blessed with nifty footwork. Whatever gets the job done is good enough for me.
The_don1
24-04-2016
Bulldozers are very very useful at times more so in the Premiership
RichmondBlue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“Bulldozers are very very useful at times more so in the Premiership”

They can be, but I'd put Lukaku a level above the usual "bulldozer". To me that suggests the likes of Andy Carroll and Benteke, I think Lukaku has a bit more than that.
The_don1
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“They can be, but I'd put Lukaku a level above the usual "bulldozer". To me that suggests the likes of Andy Carroll and Benteke, I think Lukaku has a bit more than that.”

Oh I agree but if we going to label players in this way then while its not fully correct its understandable why people use that name to describe him his size etc, But he has more to his game then that.

As you have said it depends on what you are looking for and the criteria you are looking at when making a signing. If you are measuring it against certain criteria then no he would not make for a good signing, If you are doing it against other criteria then he come be anything between a decent signing and a excellent one
carefree_blue
24-04-2016
I certainly wouldn't want to replace Costa with Lukaku.

If he was being signed as a 2nd choice striker to replace Remy that would be ok, but I can't see him accepting that sort of role. He'll want to be the main striker wherever he plays.

I just knew he was going to miss that penalty the other day before he even ran up to take it. I had flashbacks of the Super Cup final vs Bayern. I still question if he can deliver when the pressure's really on in the big games which he'd need to at a top club. He's still young i suppose, but then other players have shown it not to be a factor.
Dixon
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“They can be, but I'd put Lukaku a level above the usual "bulldozer". To me that suggests the likes of Andy Carroll and Benteke, I think Lukaku has a bit more than that.”

I think Carroll is a technically better player than Lukaku. Carroll's two big drawbacks are a lack of pace and being so injury prone.

We have to be realistic and accept the elite strikers are at the top clubs and will not be coming to Chelsea. Therefore, we shall be looking for players at a level or two below that elite level.
The_don1
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“I certainly wouldn't want to replace Costa with Lukaku.

If he was being signed as a 2nd choice striker to replace Remy that would be ok, but I can't see him accepting that sort of role. He'll want to be the main striker wherever he plays.”

If he wants that then he might as well stay at Everton as any club that would offer him that is likely to be much of the same level as his current club and he would be a massive player for them. If he wants to go to the next level then he is going have to accept it wont be as main striker be it at Chelsea or any other club which is able to take him to the next level.

I think its 50/50 as to the route he goes down (even if its not Chelsea he goes to)
The_don1
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I think Carroll is a technically better player than Lukaku. Carroll's two big drawbacks are a lack of pace and being so injury prone.

We have to be realistic and accept the elite strikers are at the top clubs and will not be coming to Chelsea. Therefore, we shall be looking for players at a level or two below that elite level.”

And not being good enough
RichmondBlue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“I think Carroll is a technically better player than Lukaku. Carroll's two big drawbacks are a lack of pace and being so injury prone.

We have to be realistic and accept the elite strikers are at the top clubs and will not be coming to Chelsea. Therefore, we shall be looking for players at a level or two below that elite level.”

Andy Carroll is terrific in the air, I'll give you that. But technically better than Lukaku ?..no way, not in my opinion anyway.
Dixon
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Andy Carroll is terrific in the air, I'll give you that. But technically better than Lukaku ?..no way, not in my opinion anyway.”

Carroll has a very good first touch for a big man. Certainly better than Lukaku's !
I would actually like us to sign Carroll. He'd cost a fraction of what it would cost us to buy back Luka. He would be happy to be the number two, bring something to the squad that we do not currently have, and i also think he could work well with Costa, which is something i cannot see Luka doing.
carefree_blue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Carroll has a very good first touch for a big man. Certainly better than Lukaku's !
I would actually like us to sign Carroll. He'd cost a fraction of what it would cost us to buy back Luka. He would be happy to be the number two, bring something to the squad that we do not currently have, and i also think he could work well with Costa, which is something i cannot see Luka doing.”

Carroll is not a bad player, but don't you think we've had enough injury prone strikers lately without looking to bring in another one? We need someone we can rely on more to be available to play when Costa is out.
Dixon
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Carroll is not a bad player, but don't you think we've had enough injury prone strikers lately without looking to bring in another one?”

Yes, but unlike some of the others, he's not old and clearly never going to be the same player he once was, If we bought him we could afford another decent forward as well giving us three decent strikers to play with.
The number one priority though must be a defensive midfielder who doesn't move like a man walking on stilts through mud. Without that we are going nowhere next season.
carefree_blue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by Dixon:
“Yes, but unlike some of the others, he's not old and clearly never going to be the same player he once was, If we bought him we could afford another decent forward as well giving us three decent strikers to play with.”

If we sign another two strikers where does that leave Traore though? Personally I'd just be looking to bring one in as 2nd choice, give Traore an opportunity as our 3rd striker next season and use the rest of whatever transfer budget we've got on strengthening other positions.
The_don1
24-04-2016
We don't even know how Conte is going to set up next season.

Before we start wasting money on players he needs to look at what he has and balance that out with what investment is needed to improve on those players

Matic for example we cannot just look at one season (or one and half for some) but over his entire career. Looking at that says on the whole he is good enough to operate at this level (especially when its not just been him this season but the entire club that has not performed) unless we find a player who is actually worth a massive amount of money (talking record breaking) and there are not that many of them available even if we could spend that sort of cash on just one position or we cut the deal of entire history of football transfers more so when we also have Mikel and RLC (who can operate to a decent level in that role).

We cannot just buy players because they are better then the current lot of played this season. If we are buying a player for say 35m they have got to be that much better what we have now and that's unlikely to happen given the value and current level of our current squad.

Every signing has to carefully balanced against what we have now and their value (realistic one) and what they can offer us going forward.
The_don1
24-04-2016
Traoe has to be our 3rd choice striker next season. His performances this season (and those before that) have deserved that at least
carefree_blue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“Traoe has to be our 3rd choice striker next season. His performances this season (and those before that) have deserved that at least”

Yep, he's done more than Lukaku and KDB ever did when they were at the club, and in a team that's not been doing as well. Certainly deserves a chance.
The_don1
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by carefree_blue:
“Yep, he's done more than Lukaku and KDB ever did when they were at the club, and in a team that's not been doing as well. Certainly deserves a chance.”

And with all due respect to Remy (who has been unlucky with injuries etc) you could argue he has done more then Remy this season, He is closer to pushing Remy to be our 2nd choice striker then Remy is pushing Costa to be our first choice striker and we need our 2nd choice striker to be doing that
carefree_blue
24-04-2016
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“And with all due respect to Remy (who has been unlucky with injuries etc) you could argue he has done more then Remy this season, He is closer to pushing Remy to be our 2nd choice striker then Remy is pushing Costa to be our first choice striker and we need our 2nd choice striker to be doing that”

Yep, I'd have Traore ahead of Remy in the pecking order now, who unfortunately can't be relied upon to ever be fit. Even when either of them have played this season Traore has done more, as you say. Hopefully we can move Remy on in the summer.
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