The only question I would have about Stones is how much of this season has been due to the average manager and the average team around him? At his age after so many games in the top level he might need more then Everton can offer him to continue his eduction.

Yes 50m is an awful lot of money but even after an awful season if we bought him it would be a easy 30m plus sale, there will always be a club willing to pay that for a English defender. He would have two of the best defenders to learn from, As a youngster just sharing a dressing room with JT and Cahill will raise your game.

I think we do need a English presence in defence.

At his age and where he is coming from he would prob accept sensible wages as well where as other routes might mean big transfer fees (while not as big as Stones yes) but also big wages.

He has not played well this season but unless your name is Willian neither can any Chelsea player and there are far more acceptable reasons why he has been out of form then any of our players.

It's a gamble of course and 4 days out of 7 I would prob not like it BUT I can see reasons why it might actually work

The money really is all relative. If we bought Stones for a ridiculous amount but he gave us 5 great seasons then it would be worthwhile.
I have feeling we will miss out on him though and he will end up in Manchester.

It depends on how we conducted ourselves in the previous attempt to buy him,

If we went in like billy big balls then maybe they will deal with someone else rather then us but if we acted in a professional way then we might be able to continue those talks

I did pay particular attention to Stones every time I saw him play last season, but admittedly that was only on tv. He didn't impress me at all to be honest. He looks calm in possession and can find a decent pass, but to me that didn't make up for his occasional costtly defensive errors.
Yes, he probably will improve and may even become the great CB that many predict. But my point is that we need a ready made alternative in that position now, not in a couple of years time. I'll admit that Zouma probably isn't as good with the ball at his feet, but he's already a level higher in terms of positioning and winning the ball..plus Zouma is very strong in the air.
Lastly it's down to value, £40/50m is the sort of price you might expect to pay for the finished article. If he becomes the great defender a lot of people are predicting, he could be worth an extra £10/15m I suppose, but that doesn't look a sensible gamble to me.

A quick addition. If money was really no object, I'd be all for getting him. But we appear to be taking a lot more frugal attitude in our transfer dealings nowadays. I don't think it's worth breaking the bank for Stones, there are more attractive options to throw our money at at.

He's a Northern lad so Manchester would probably appeal more.

Just an aside, as we've been talking about CB's. A lot of big clubs (including Chelsea) have been looking at Naopli's young defender Kalidou Koulibaly, so I had a look on YouTube.
Now I know you have to be careful in judging a player by his "best bits" on video, but wow, does this guy look impressive ! A beast at 6ft 4, incredibly fast, with the dribbling skills and passing of a young Yaya Toure..and he's a CB.
I'm not one to be impressed easily but he appears to have the lot !

With regards to CB I think we need someone who has played in this league. We need someone who is willing to accept sitting on the bench for some part of the season (as JT will play in some games maybe even the "bigger" ones. Not easy to find.

The trouble is Stone's value has nothing to do with his talent. Its to do with his nationality and age and length of contract and those things will remain the factors that decided his worth going forward. We sign him up to a 4 year contract and want to sell him in a seasons time and he has the season from hell we will still get a big chuck of our money back from a club like West Ham. Its really only a 20m risk. I think JT could really do something with someone like Stones. I think JT would be more then happy with Stones taking his spot then anyone else we could bring in. Yes not that important but could be of great benefit in dressing room that ours might be like next season.

I am all for putting lots of thinking in transfers but I think sometimes we need to take a punt.

I rather pay 50m for Stones when I know we will get a big part of our money back then pay 20m for someone who we will have to hawk around China to get off our books if it ends up being a bad signing.

We also have to wait and see how Zouma comes back from his injury. It could be a very long road. So would rather have someone who has been in this league and is settled in the country etc rather then someone finding their feet

If we did not have Zouma and a number of possible talents out on loan I would def think he is worth a look at but I think it would be doing (mainly those on loan) other players a disservice if we went after him at the moment.

But yet you think we should go after Stones? How is that any different in terms of doing a disservice to the young defenders already on our books? It's just swapping one name for another, but it's still the same thing.

Some good points, as usual. But I wouldn't be happy going into next season with Stones as our back-up even if he was satisfied with sitting on the bench. As you say, we have to wait and see how Zouma comes back, JT and Ivanovic are in the twilights of their careers, so that leaves Cahill.
Looking ahead for maybe 2017/18 a choice of Zouma, Stones and Christensen would be great. As I said, if money was no object get Stones, but I still think we'd need a proven, experience CB for next season and maybe for the season after.

Take a look at this though, and tell me what you think. That's if the link works, I'm not very good at that sort of thing.

http://youtu.be/e2b20E7YWTc

But we need someone premiership ready today.

Our youngsters have not done that and nor should they have because they are not ready yet. They still have lots to learn and the pressure from doing that while actually being at Chelsea is putting them under unfair pressure.

You send a kid from doing one year in secondary school to Uni without the right groundwork and its more like going to end one way. With someone like Koulibaly your also asking them to move to another country the pressures are unfair at that age Yes it will work once in while when you are dealing with a genius but they come along very rarely.

The talent in these players is not in question. For me its all about education. Its what is missing from today's game. If you put JT from the days when he started out into today the Chelsea of today and he would have failed. It has to be done in very slow stages. I think Stones is ready for the next stage. He has been part of the madhouse that is the Premiership and has had a taste of international football those will have prepared him to some extent the dressing room at Chelsea and what is expected of him.

Its why I think if Utd get Zaltan it will be a massive thing for them. Not only for what he will do while he is here but the effect he will have on some like Rashford, Just sitting in the dressing room with someone like Zaltan will be of great help, Watching him in training,On the pitch and just sitting and talking to him with his current experience could be the making of him.

I would rather have a intelligent very good player with the right education then some wonderful talented player who has not yet learned how to handle being in a team with the massive expectations you are placed under at Chelsea more so with the culture we have had these last few years.

Players like JT and Lamps have never been the most talented players we have had at Chelse but they have been the very best because they learned how to be the right way. We need to do more of that

Oh I have seen him play and agree he is a very good player but I think we have to consider other things other then his abilities to fill the role we are looking for as things currently stand

I think we can if we get it right can produce someone just as good ourselves

I just think at the moment we need someone who has played in this league and who is use to England and the league etc. Someone where we can use players like JT and Cahill talents if they are not playing as often as they would like and I think Stones ticks more of the boxes then many other (and maybe better) players

Fair enough, I just thought he looks a bit special. A lightening fast 6ft 4inch CB and ball winner with those skills ! My cheque would be in the post already if I was Abramovich.
But I'm always suspicious of YouTube videos anyway, they can make almost anyone look like Messi or Ronaldo.

Ah, but that's a seperate point to what you were making before in the post I responded to. You didn't say to Richmond that we shouldn't sign Koulibaly because of his lack of Premier League experience, you said we shouldn't look at it at the moment because it wouldn't really be fair to the young players already at the club. The same would apply if we signed Stones.


It worked just fine with Zouma, and others over the years. Every transfer is a gamble, even signing players with Premier League experience. Just look at some of the ones Southampton have sold in recent years, they've gone for sizeable fees but haven't pulled up any trees at the clubs that signed them. Sterling is another one, right now he doesn't look anything like a player worth City's outlay on him.


No-one has suggested putting in a rookie though. Me and Richmond's preference is for us to bring in a more experienced centre-back.

On talent alone 100%

I have watched a couple games here and there and he is a very talented player for sure.

I am just at the moment thinking we need someone with something else. Stones I think we would be a very good player to have around the club, The way he conducts himself on the pitch etc. He strikes me as a very good professional and I think that's what we really need at the moment.

Stones only gets ahead of them due to his experience in this league. I think if are going to give someone a spot with no premiership experience then it should be one of our youngsters even if they are not ready yet, They deserve at least a chance to if we are going to go down that route

Of course it can work but we should look to do something like that as little as possible Sterling IMO was never going to work out because he attitude is wrong and I don't think that's a problem with Stones. From what I have seen from Stones his mindset is 100% spot on. Yes every transfer is a risk but when I have seen Stones he was always struck me as a model pro and I think we need that

I don't think bringing in a more experienced defender would help with the spirit in the dressing room in fact I think it would harm it. I think the opposite would be the same if we bought in someone with a similar amount of experience of Stones

Yes, a lot of things in football are unforeseeable. Who would have thought Morgan and Huth would arguably become the best CB pairing in the PL this season ? The previous season Cahill and JT (with help from Zouma) were untouchable.
But if we'd been successful in signing Stones last summer do you think it would have made any difference to our sorry state this season. I don't think so, and that worries me even if he has another year of experience under his belt. Maybe it's been Everton and Martinez holding him back, but I'm not convinced.

I think for the youngsters in question they'd be disappointed anyway if we signed another young defender to go ahead of them in the pecking order. It won't be of any consolation if it's an English one or not, so I think this particular point is irrelevant really.


I agree he's probably got a better attitude than Sterling, but he doesn't seem like one of the most intelligent footballers out on the pitch.



Can you expand on why you think that would be the case?

Of course they will be disappointed and fully expect them to do be but I think having someone experienced makes that disappointment worth the risk.

While he might not be the most intelligent player around I think he would be 100% professional, I think he is the type of player who would always be behind the manager no matter what and that is something we might not be able to say about many players

We don't know what role JT will play next season and we bring in another experienced defender and he is picked over JT it could cause issues in the dressing room and I think the dressing room was a big part of our problems this year and not sure with a new manager and the pressure the team will be under its worth doing something that might cause more issues is the way to go, While bringing in someone like Stones I think JT would see that as a project for him. Almost the same as what happened when he came into the team and the experienced players did to him, JT is going to lose some of the clout he has had at the club and I think a project such as this will help make up for that.

Nobody seems to mention Chiellini, maybe because it would be unthinkable for him to leave Juventus ? But I've always considered him to be a fabulous defender as a LB or CB. He's 31 and would be ideal for a couple of seasons while our younger players gain experience.
We've been linked with Bonucci who has the same Conte connection, but he doesn't seem interested and would cost big money. Chiellini would probably be a cheaper option who wouldn't block the progress of our youngsters.

What about the American defender we signed this year?

Yes, he's only 20 though. Probably another one for the future if he makes the grade.

Of the brief bits I have seen of him that seems unlikely

Useful fringe player.

Might suffer next season from lack of opportunities due us not being in Europe.

Might play in early stages of the cups depending on the fixture list