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Chelsea Supporters Thread (Part 5)


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Old 23-10-2016, 18:30
Makosi's pants
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Well done to you lot. You simply outplayed us. I said in the Conte thread that he was too good to fail though he might need a season + to really get going and of course, no Europe is a help. Mind you, I also said that Kante would never score for you and look what happened Think Moses has more or less taken Willian's place now and it's got to bode well for you that Costa didn't even got on the scoresheet and yet you still thrashed us..
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Old 23-10-2016, 18:34
RichmondBlue
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Yes, couldn't have gone much better for us. Great result and some excellent performances all round. Loved seeing Kante getting his goal, a really classy finish.
I was surprised with United though. Even allowing for the early goal, they looked suspect defensively throughout. Pogba must be a massive disappointment as well. I was expecting it to take time for him to get used to the pace of the PL again, but for £90m I'd also have expected to see more from him.
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Old 23-10-2016, 18:46
SIOPHIE_FIERCE
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Luiz has quickly become the heart of the team!
This is why initially I was happy we brought him back even if he might make some stupid mistakes. He's a great character to have at the club and when he's playing well he's amazing.
Think Moses has more or less taken Willian's place now and it's got to bode well for you that Costa didn't even got on the scoresheet and yet you still thrashed us..
Nah. Willian and Pedro will be fighting for the same position and Willian probably wins that one. Moses doesn't seem to have competition for that wingback position atm
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Old 23-10-2016, 18:48
Makosi's pants
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Yes, couldn't have gone much better for us. Great result and some excellent performances all round. Loved seeing Kante getting his goal, a really classy finish.
I was surprised with United though. Even allowing for the early goal, they looked suspect defensively throughout. Pogba must be a massive disappointment as well. I was expecting it to take time for him to get used to the pace of the PL again, but for £90m I'd also have expected to see more from him.
No United fan can deny Pogba has been a disappointment so far in the prem. Keeps getting caught in poesession and hasn't given us a MOTM performance yet. Could easily have got the hook at half-time. But, for me at least the signs are there that he will come good and run games on his own. He does need the proper support in the middle though. Imagine if he had Kante supporting him in the middle instead of Fellani....

BTW Luiz is still a liability.....
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Old 23-10-2016, 19:24
owen10
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No United fan can deny Pogba has been a disappointment so far in the prem. Keeps getting caught in poesession and hasn't given us a MOTM performance yet. Could easily have got the hook at half-time. But, for me at least the signs are there that he will come good and run games on his own. He does need the proper support in the middle though. Imagine if he had Kante supporting him in the middle instead of Fellani....

BTW Luiz is still a liability.....
Luiz is a liability only if Conte plays two centre halves. When they play three at the back then he looks World Class
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Old 23-10-2016, 19:38
RichmondBlue
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No United fan can deny Pogba has been a disappointment so far in the prem. Keeps getting caught in poesession and hasn't given us a MOTM performance yet. Could easily have got the hook at half-time. But, for me at least the signs are there that he will come good and run games on his own. He does need the proper support in the middle though. Imagine if he had Kante supporting him in the middle instead of Fellani....

BTW Luiz is still a liability.....
Yes, I think you'll see the best of Pogba eventually. It's working out for he best way to use him that remains a bit of a puzzle. I can see him as another Yaya Toure, but maybe with the same drawbacks. I don't think defending comes naturally to him and (as you say) for such a big, powerful guy, he's dispossessed too easily at present.
But (again as you say) once he does hit form you'll have some exciting times when he's at his best.
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Old 24-10-2016, 00:14
SegaGamer
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No United fan can deny Pogba has been a disappointment so far in the prem. Keeps getting caught in poesession and hasn't given us a MOTM performance yet. Could easily have got the hook at half-time. But, for me at least the signs are there that he will come good and run games on his own. He does need the proper support in the middle though. Imagine if he had Kante supporting him in the middle instead of Fellani....

BTW Luiz is still a liability.....
Since Luiz has returned he has probably been our best performing defender. If he is a liability then that doesn't say much for most of the defenders in the league. Look at players like Stones. He makes a mistake in pretty much every other game but instead of getting criticised, they say things like he's still learning and we should let him make mistakes.
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Old 24-10-2016, 07:31
Jokanovic
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I'm the first to admit that I got it wrong about Moses. If he can keep up this level of form then I will be delighted to have been proved wrong.
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Old 24-10-2016, 08:30
codeblue
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Since Luiz has returned he has probably been our best performing defender. If he is a liability then that doesn't say much for most of the defenders in the league. Look at players like Stones. He makes a mistake in pretty much every other game but instead of getting criticised, they say things like he's still learning and we should let him make mistakes.
Correct, i have been banging the drum about this for a year.

John Stones has been directly responsible for 5 errors that have led directly to goals this season. That's not bad, since they have only played 9 games in the league, that's better than a goal every other game!In the media this morning, they were discussing this and excusing him, because he is "learning his trade" and will "only get better". Why?
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Old 24-10-2016, 08:48
The_don1
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Correct, i have been banging the drum about this for a year.

John Stones has been directly responsible for 5 errors that have led directly to goals this season. That's not bad, since they have only played 9 games in the league, that's better than a goal every other game!In the media this morning, they were discussing this and excusing him, because he is "learning his trade" and will "only get better". Why?
Because its logical and not some simplistic one eyed view

Yesterday for example was of course a mistake from him but also a mistake that came from faults with the system being used and a mistake from another player.

Is he making mistakes? Of course he is but just as we have senior players making mistakes this season due to a number of different reasons he is also learning what it is to play at the higher end of the league. His previous club gave his a basic education but now he is working at a much higher level. With the right education it is more then logical he will improve as a player, He showed the right mentality just after the mistake when he scored a goal and at this level that is the most important factor for him at the moment.

Players make "mistakes" every single game, sometimes they are costly and sometimes they are not, With Cities current form mistakes are costly just as they was at the start of the season for us.

Luiz is playing very well but that's due to us using the right system for him, He is still making mistakes (couple of silly high challenges yesterday for example) but they system being used means they are not as costly for us
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Old 24-10-2016, 09:08
codeblue
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He is making terrible errors every other game and has cost his team 5 goals so far!

He made errors at his last team too, so many that they benched him.

Its all excuses, dare it actually be that he is simply not very good? There is absolutely no reason to say that with "education" he will improve... if he doesnt know how to perform basic defending by now, he never will.

He will never be world class, he will never actually be worth 50 million at any point in his career.
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Old 24-10-2016, 09:18
The_don1
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He is making terrible errors every other game and has cost his team 5 goals so far!

He made errors at his last team too, so many that they benched him.

Its all excuses, dare it actually be that he is simply not very good? There is absolutely no reason to say that with "education" he will improve... if he doesnt know how to perform basic defending by now, he never will.

He will never be world class, he will never actually be worth 50 million at any point in his career.
Who is talking world class?

Well you are wrong he has already been sold for 50m so he "actuallly" is already worth that.
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Old 24-10-2016, 09:43
codeblue
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Who is talking world class?

Well you are wrong he has already been sold for 50m so he "actuallly" is already worth that.
Say two people get caught up in a bidding war, bidding over the odds for a property. They pay 50million because it has the potential to be worth that if planning permission is granted - they take a punt.

However when they move in, no planning permission is granted, it cannot achieve its "potential" - they try and sell it on. But its worth £50million they cry, because its what they paid.

But no one is willing to pay more than £25 million for it, as everyone is now aware of its problems.

Whats it "worth"? 50 or 25 million?

See Torres for another example. worth 50 million? no, given away for free after a 2 year nightmare.

Stones was only worth 50 million if he achieved his "potential" over many years (the most abused and ridiculous word in football). Paying for it early is a massive gamble, that i can never understand.

What if stones never achieves his "potential"? Nothing ive ever seen of him screams 50million. And his start at city has seen him have a nightmare, the buy is looking worse and worse by the game.
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Old 24-10-2016, 09:49
The_don1
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Say two people get caught up in a bidding war, bidding over the odds for a property. They pay 50million because it has the potential to be worth that if planning permission is granted - they take a punt.

However when they move in, no planning permission is granted, it cannot achieve its "potential" - they try and sell it on. But its worth £50million they cry, because its what they paid.

But no one is willing to pay more than £25 million for it, as everyone is now aware of its problems.

Whats it "worth"? 50 or 25 million?

See Torres for another example. worth 50 million? no, given away for free after a 2 year nightmare.

Stones was only worth 50 million if he achieved his "potential" over many years (the most abused and ridiculous word in football). Paying for it early is a massive gamble, that i can never understand.

What if stones never achieves his "potential"? Nothing ive ever seen of him screams 50million. And his start at city has seen him have a nightmare, the buy is looking worse and worse by the game.
More of your pointless and utterly inane comparisons.

Stones was worth 50m due to the current market, His age,Nationality,Contract,Lack of need by his previous club to sell etc
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Old 24-10-2016, 09:50
codeblue
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More of your pointless and utterly inane comparisons.

Stones was worth 50m due to the current market, His age,Nationality,Contract,Lack of need by his previous club to sell etc
And what is he worth now?
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Old 24-10-2016, 10:51
alan29
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I'm not usually a Chelsea supporter ........
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Old 24-10-2016, 11:42
The_don1
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And what is he worth now?
Depends on his contract and the willingness of City to sell and how much a club is willing to spend
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Old 24-10-2016, 11:50
codeblue
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Depends on his contract and the willingness of City to sell and how much a club is willing to spend
So not 50 million.

I wish we could have done this 4 messages ago.

Anyway, can we get back to congratulating the team on a fantastic performance. It simply could not have gone any better.

Kante dancing through their defense for the 4th to ice the cake was especially satisfying.

Disappointed in Jose for what he said to Conte, but not surprised.
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Old 24-10-2016, 12:29
carefree_blue
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Thoroughly enjoyed watching us thrash United yesterday. A very satisfying weekend with City, Arsenal and Spurs dropping points too.

Three wins and three clean sheets on the trot. Think I'd be tempted to keep the same line-up against West Ham, even if it is a cup match. Need to keep the momentum going now.

As for John Stones, he's showing why most of us didn't want him.
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Old 24-10-2016, 12:48
The_don1
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So not 50 million.

I wish we could have done this 4 messages ago.

Anyway, can we get back to congratulating the team on a fantastic performance. It simply could not have gone any better.

Kante dancing through their defense for the 4th to ice the cake was especially satisfying.

Disappointed in Jose for what he said to Conte, but not surprised.
Nobody has put in a bid for him, he could be worth 5m or 500m all we know for sure is his last valuation was 50m so you was incorrect when you said he was never "actually" worth 50m
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Old 24-10-2016, 13:03
codeblue
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Nobody has put in a bid for him, he could be worth 5m or 500m all we know for sure is his last valuation was 50m so you was incorrect when you said he was never "actually" worth 50m
We have been through this many times, but i will try one more time.

You can pay over the odds for something, but it doesnt make it "worth" that price.

The next second, its back to its real value.

Perhaps im buying stock in Apple. Its over inflated share price is £20 a share today, when i buy it, but tomorrow after terrible performances its worth £10 per share.

Whats the share worth? £10

You do not seem to understand that "worth" is not a fixed price. Stones was not and is not worth £50m

See Andy Carroll. Was he ever worth £35 million. Of course not. Its double his real value, same with the John Stones transfer.

As stones is only "potentially very good", but at the moment he is pretty much average, and somewhat of a liability thanks to terrible form and decision making), his transfer fee is plummeting.

He makes the Luiz transfer look a bargain.
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Old 24-10-2016, 14:40
RichmondBlue
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More of your pointless and utterly inane comparisons.

Stones was worth 50m due to the current market, His age,Nationality,Contract,Lack of need by his previous club to sell etc
Must admit, I have some sympathy with codeblue on this one. You are both right in your own way. But with Stones it was all about "potential" (an over-used word as codeblue says).
Then there's his nationality as you say, being an English player with "potential" immediately doubled his value in a crazy market. But that in itself seems a strange way to value a player. Are the FFP rules as relevant now as they used to be ? There's certainly less talk about it these days.
I never wanted us to sign Stones for £45m (or whatever we offered) and I'm still glad we didn't. I just couldn't see any upside to the gamble. If he fulfills his potential he's worth maybe £60m, after all the work you've put in bringing him up to the required level. So why not just go out and buy the finished article ?
But I guess he was worth what anyone was prepared to pay.
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Old 24-10-2016, 17:12
redvers36
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A much more open game than I expected, which I suppose is understandable with a goal after only 30 seconds !
Moses has been standout for me, he really does seem to have found his best position as a wing back. United have created a couple of chances though, particularly from down their right wing. Only thing to annoy me was Pedro's booking for "excessive" celebrations after his goal. Ridiculous.
Yes it is nice to see Victor Moses being given a chance and him playing so well. Also now we look better balanced the form of Matic is much better. I agree with you about Pedro after all isn't a player supposed to be happy about scoring?
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Old 24-10-2016, 18:50
mikeyddd
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Correct, i have been banging the drum about this for a year.

John Stones has been directly responsible for 5 errors that have led directly to goals this season. That's not bad, since they have only played 9 games in the league, that's better than a goal every other game!In the media this morning, they were discussing this and excusing him, because he is "learning his trade" and will "only get better". Why?
You mustn't criticise Stones, he's a young player and you'll knock his confidence according to some.
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Old 24-10-2016, 19:03
codeblue
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I worry that we will still be talking about his potential in ten years.

If a young player is worth 10 million now, but is progressing well, I can see why a club would offer 15 million on the gamble they will keep progressing.

However, paying a world record fee for a defender based on nothing more than potential is madness. Why not just spend that money on. Errr a world class defender!
, who can contribute at a world class level right now. Not in five years (if ever) .
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