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Spain v Netherlands - Exclusively live only on BBC One 7.30pm 13/06 |
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#651 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
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I nearly placed a bet last week on Spain going out at the group stage. Damn
![]() Has any defending champion been so outclassed in their first game of the next World Cup? Q is whether del Bosque will make the necessary changes. I think he'll stick with Casillas, Xavi, Costa (pity he didn't get sent off really). Imho start with Villa and Pedro and replace Piqué (but with who I suppose). The non-possession game didn't work but they were so much slower & less dynamic than the Dutch, who didn't let them play their normal game. Pity there's no replacement for de Jong though. Dirty player. Quote:
The wider point to be made is that Spain now have (I think) no way of winning the group unless Holland tank and Spain win their next two games by several goals. This means that even if Spain get through they will finish second and therefore face Brazil in the second round.
Which means, all things considered and having seen Brazil play, it's all over for Spain. I was driving and didn't see the game but I'll stick my neck out and say Casillas should not have been selected. Just as Ashley Cole was not selected. Just as Júlio César should not have been selected. No match practice. |
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#652 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26,167
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Spain could do with implementing some of the younger and hungrier Atletico players to revitalise this team.
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#653 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,716
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Quote:
The wider point to be made is that Spain now have (I think) no way of winning the group unless Holland tank and Spain win their next two games by several goals. This means that even if Spain get through they will finish second and therefore face Brazil in the second round.
Which means, all things considered and having seen Brazil play, it's all over for Spain. Two wins in their next two games would do it Holland draw and lose their next two games. Spain would then finish above any other team with 6 points because they would have the better head to head record. Australia, by all accounts are quite weak. But they could try and park the bus against Holland and hold out for a draw. It's happened plenty of times in previous World Cup group games. |
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#654 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,777
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Quote:
I nearly placed a bet last week on Spain going out at the group stage. Damn
![]() Has any defending champion been so outclassed in their first game of the next World Cup? Q is whether del Bosque will make the necessary changes. I think he'll stick with Casillas, Xavi, Costa (pity he didn't get sent off really). Imho start with Villa and Pedro and replace Piqué (but with who I suppose). The non-possession game didn't work but they were so much slower & less dynamic than the Dutch, who didn't let them play their normal game. Pity there's no replacement for de Jong though. Dirty player. Whatever happens, as long as Spain manage more than 1 point I think they can say they've done better than France did. |
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#655 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,931
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A lot of people getting far to carried away based on just one game. Those saying Spain have been over the hill for a while clearly have not been following football at all.
They have only had one bad half of football and can bounce back. Lets not forget the dutch side got to the final of the last world cup they almost won it last time. The manner of the result and final score line is a shock but it was not a given Spain would walk this match. Sure it was a half in which the side just fell apart. The defence was torn apart by Arjen Robben but their are not many teams with a player like him. It is easy to get carried away and many people have with claims it is the death of football in Spain. I think the result had more to do with Holland just being outstanding in that half. The goal just before half time was one in a million. Then Robben just put in the best half of football I have seen anyone play. I still expect Spain to get through the group and it sets up a great game against Brazil one would expect. I still think Spain have enough about the squad to beat them on the day. |
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#656 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,796
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Van Persie was booked wasn't he, reckon they might leave him out against Australia
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#657 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,578
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What on earth happened there?! The Netherlands played incredible football! The total football that Cruyff played in '74! And what happened to Robben?! How did he get better with age?!
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#658 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26,167
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Van Persie was booked wasn't he, reckon they might leave him out against Australia
I think Australia could be difficult for the Dutch. Holland were brilliant tonight on the counter attack but I reckon Australia will be well organised and obviously won't be as open as Spain so they could frustrate them and get a point. |
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#659 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 5,930
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Spain could still win the group quite conceivably.
Two wins in their next two games would do it Holland draw and lose their next two games. Spain would then finish above any other team with 6 points because they would have the better head to head record. Australia, by all accounts are quite weak. But they could try and park the bus against Holland and hold out for a draw. It's happened plenty of times in previous World Cup group games. So a very fortunate scenario - meanwhile, all Holland has to do is beat Australia to finish above Spain. |
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#660 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,925
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Errrrr final of Copacabana cup Brazil 3 Spain 0
I think you'll find it wasn't the "Copacabana cup" either. Full marks for getting in the spirit of things though... |
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#661 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,337
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Mark Lawrenson was the highlight of the entire show IMO
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#662 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,716
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That would all have to slot into place quite carefully - Holland, Chile and Australia would all have to draw/lose with each other quite randomly rather than any consistent loser. You'd need (for example) Holland to draw with Australia but beat Chile, Chile to beat Australia but lost to Holland, and Australia to manage a draw against Holland but not against Chile (VERY unlikely).
So a very fortunate scenario - meanwhile, all Holland has to do is beat Australia to finish above Spain. If Spain beat Chile and Australia, they would then finish above them regardless of how they fared against each other and Holland . Spain would have a better head to head record against them, because they beat them both |
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#663 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,723
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I can't imagine any defending champions have been outclassed in such fashion. The obvious example that springs to mind is France's epic choke in 2002 but even then they only lost 1-0 to Senegal in their opening game.
Whatever happens, as long as Spain manage more than 1 point I think they can say they've done better than France did. (France was 0-1, 0-0 and 0-2 iirc) |
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#664 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Teenage Wasteland
Posts: 5,930
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No.
If Spain beat Chile and Australia, they would then finish above them regardless of how they fared against each other and Holland . Spain would have a better head to head record against them, because they beat them both |
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#665 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,041
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Awesome game, I found it difficult to choose who to cheer on as I like both teams, but Holland made it easy for me
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#666 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gtr Manchester UK
Posts: 7,919
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What on earth happened there?! The Netherlands played incredible football! The total football that Cruyff played in '74! And what happened to Robben?! How did he get better with age?!
![]() ![]() Note; Is the new king of Spain now to be known as Felipe V-I?? |
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#667 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
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A lot of people getting far to carried away based on just one game. Those saying Spain have been over the hill for a while clearly have not been following football at all.
They have only had one bad half of football and can bounce back. Lets not forget the dutch side got to the final of the last world cup they almost won it last time. The manner of the result and final score line is a shock but it was not a given Spain would walk this match. Sure it was a half in which the side just fell apart. The defence was torn apart by Arjen Robben but their are not many teams with a player like him. It is easy to get carried away and many people have with claims it is the death of football in Spain. I think the result had more to do with Holland just being outstanding in that half. The goal just before half time was one in a million. Then Robben just put in the best half of football I have seen anyone play. I still expect Spain to get through the group and it sets up a great game against Brazil one would expect. I still think Spain have enough about the squad to beat them on the day. The fabulous equaliser just before half time shook them up and suddenly they had a real game on their hands. Trying to play "Barcelona style" with Diego Costa wasn't working, he had spent the entire season playing a totally different style of game with Atletico. Robben started really turning it on and they had no answer. Ramos and Piqué were clueless, and the whole team looked a yard slower than the Netherlands. They looked totally shell-shocked by the time the final whistle blew. But it is only one game, and teams don't become bad overnight. The problem is, Chile was always going to be a tough game, now it's become even tougher. |
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#668 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,578
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How pissed off is Cruyff?!
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#669 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 834
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It was truly wonderous seeing all the Spanish players and fans in utter despair. Fantastic night's viewing.
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#670 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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Quote:
Not if Chile and Holland also win two games (could happen, both beating Australia and then Chile losing to Spain, and Holland losing to Chile) - then it would come down to goal difference (wouldn't it? If it's three ways?) which is not in Spain's favour....
From the FIFA rules http://resources.fifa.com/mm/documen..._e_neutral.pdf 6. In the league format, the ranking in each group is determined as follows: a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches; b) goal difference in all group matches; c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches. If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings shall be determined as follows: d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned; |
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#671 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,777
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Quote:
I think that's true. People appear to forget that Spain looked comfortable for most of the first half, they had nearly 70% possession. But Spain were far too complacent, it looked as if they believed the pre-match hype and only needed to turn up to win.
The fabulous equaliser just before half time shook them up and suddenly they had a real game on their hands. Trying to play "Barcelona style" with Diego Costa wasn't working, he had spent the entire season playing a totally different style of game with Atletico. |
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#672 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Derby
Posts: 27,584
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I think Spain will do ok. Everyone was writing them off after their poor Euro 2012 semi (and lacklustre earlier games) when they struggled to beat Portugal on penalties. Italy had surprised everyone by beating a good German side in their semi. But in the final Spain looked superior again and took Italy apart.
Also we've seen the Dutch look magnificent in group games before then crashing out in the knockout round. They can peak too early. |
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#673 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,487
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Should have been 5-0 .
That penalty decision was very unfair on the Dutch player . |
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#674 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 17,852
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what I thought was interesting was the pace that Holland showed,. Several of the goals came very quickly from deep positions.
sort of tactic that might help England, if they go with the young guys. Maybe Italy are a harder defence than spain, but I can't see how England can play through a good defence |
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#675 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 17,852
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Quote:
A lot of people getting far to carried away based on just one game. Those saying Spain have been over the hill for a while clearly have not been following football at all.
They have only had one bad half of football and can bounce back. Lets not forget the dutch side got to the final of the last world cup they almost won it last time. The manner of the result and final score line is a shock but it was not a given Spain would walk this match. Sure it was a half in which the side just fell apart. The defence was torn apart by Arjen Robben but their are not many teams with a player like him. It is easy to get carried away and many people have with claims it is the death of football in Spain. I think the result had more to do with Holland just being outstanding in that half. The goal just before half time was one in a million. Then Robben just put in the best half of football I have seen anyone play. I still expect Spain to get through the group and it sets up a great game against Brazil one would expect. I still think Spain have enough about the squad to beat them on the day. here's a few minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pZRuMaacI |
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