Watched the repeat of Name of the Doctor earlier tonight on BBC3 and there's some parts of it I'm confused about, mainly about his grave. Was that his actual grave or just one of the many possible graves he has before everything is turned right again by himself or his companions? After the Xmas episode (I've only seen once and a little hazy on the exact details) where he lived on Trenzalore and the battle at the end, would it be possible that the people there assumed he was dead and put a grave there? But his timestream thing wouldn't be there in that case because he regenerated, so does that mean he went back there, died and it is his actual final grave?
Sorry if this is a bit of a rambles, I hope the hivemind of the forum can shed some light on this for me.

I'm of the opinion that because the Doctor entered his own timeline (to rescue Clara 'Prime') it started a chain of events that eventually prevented his death on Trenzalore. Originally he was meant to die defending the planet, but being given a new regeneration cycle stopped him from dying.
Does that mean he'll eventually be buried there in the new timeline? I'd say "Who knows?" but I don't want to come across as doing a dodgy JN-T impression.

Do we really need to go over this again? It has been mentioned on other threads in the last 12 months, and answered to the best ability possible.

No wonder this thread has only had one reply, in the six days since it was started.

My opinion is that the start of the Capaldi era cannot come early enough. At least then we will have something new to discuss.

FWIW I repeat my theory here!

The grave in 'Name', was indeed his grave. However, with the events of Clara entering his time stream and 'Time', the Doctor's future has been changed. Maybe he will still die on Trenzalore, but when Clara entered his time stream, the only faces there were up to but NOT including Capaldi...therefore, this grave is no longer valid, it is an ex grave, it have gone to meet its maker, yada yada.....

😂😂😂😂 Too right Satmanager

Well, technically, it's the events of The Day of the Doctor, and his modern selves helping to save the Time Lords, that would have changed the circumstances of the Doctor's death. I don't know if rescuing Clara, as such, would have made the difference, he would probably have gone to Trenzalore regardless. Without the Time Lords, he would have died.

Well, I don't live my life on this forum so I wouldn't know how many threads there'd been on this subject and also I didn't know there was a time limit for asking questions about past episodes. No need to be so rude.

Hear, hear. Exactly what I thought when I saw that response. My thoughts are the Doctor would have died had Clara not shouted at the Timelords. Another example of her saving him. So Clara changed time.

I imagine that this will be one of the storylines for Series 8. Moffat is a clever man, and he is undoubtedly aware that this will not make sense until it is explained.

PLEASE don't start this time-travel into his grave again!
Surely the Doctor has started again (like William Hartnell did!) and starting a new life into a NEW series of adventures! Leave it at that!!

You'd think that, but I doubt he will. To be honest, I'd like it to make more sense but i'd rather they just forget the whole sorry mess of a plot point and focus on new hopefully more sense making plots

Alot of those who seem to support Moffat no matter what, often try to quote the problems of RTD's era when problems with Moffats era are brought up, but this particular issue proves somewhat of a point to me. In just the last fortnight or so this subject has been the point of at least three or four threads, and many more besides since it was first shown. Now say what you will about RTD's time but I'll wager that there weren't even half the threads asking questions about the nature of plots that there are from Moffats time, let alone the same things being asked over and over again because they have no clear cut answer.

But this a good thing right Intrigue, mystery, drama, it woukd be boring if we knew everything everything, and I'm sure probably quite oring to write too.

Ah right so there's no definite answer. I like mystery and intrigue in Who, like over who Clara is and what phrases mean but it's frustrating when they build up to a big point like his grave for about 2 series and then it's left with little explaination as to what the final outcome is like whether it is his actual permanent final grave or not - so much for graves being a fixed point if they can be changed so easily.

Was his grave a fixed point? I don't remember that being mentioned.

Maybe tehre will be consequences. Timelords gave him life he owes them. Maybe it will inspire 12 to try and find Galifrey in the pocket dimension ?.

His grave was introduced and said goodbye to in one episode, so that's not quite the same. His enemies sought the Doctor's death to prevent him from getting to Trenzalore because of the question that would be asked (by the Time Lords, as it turns out) - his death there was only a side effect of his own attempts to avoid the question.

Oh, of course, the show would be nothing without intrigue, drama, and mystery. But you'd also like to think that when a storyline is done you'd have the answers you came for. If not it makes you wary of putting your faith in the next supposedly intruiging storyline, if you know you still don't fully understand the last one.

That's not true because the only reason there was a siege at Trenzalore at all was because everyone was afraid that the Time Lords would be breaking back into the Universe by virtue of the Doctor answering their question. So the Time Lords being saved was always part of history and the reason for his grave at Trenzalore.

Something else must have changed in order to have averted that and the most likely theory is that it was Clara. Except, of course, that it was Clara's presence on Gallifrey that persuaded the Doctors that there was another way than blowing the planet up so, if that was already part of history, then so was Clara!

My theory is that Clara was on a loop. First Clara wasn't the impossible girl but was probably still with the Doctor on Gallifrey. She threw herself into the timestream to become the impossible girl but, either wasn't rescued at the end of it or went on to Trenzalore but failed to save the Doctor. Her fragments were Victorian Clara and Asylum Clara explaining why the Doctor encountered these but never remembered seeing any other fragments up to that point.

Meanwhile, one of the fragments (girl in the shop) arranged for the Doctor to meet Bells of St. John Clara earlier than he had originally met her and this Clara, the Clara of season 7, went on and threw herself into the timestream on Trenzalore a second time.

This time the Clara that emerged was suitably different to the previous loop that she was able to avert the Doctor's fate at Trenzalore.

Now there is no grave at Trenzalore and no timestream representing his corpse.

Just a theory, of course, but it works for me

Yay, Thrombin is back, was missing you posts

You are of course, quite correct. Yes, in either version of events the Time Lords must have been there, and the Doctor must have been ignoring them. Clara telling them to help instead of trying to find an escape was the only change.

Moffat has written himself into quite a corner. His only hope is to go for the clean start and trying to avoid referencing the whole mess!

Aw, thanks

Didn't River help him, didn't Clara help him, I could go on and the question is why, why help the Doctor and the answer is because he has always helped others, that is what The Doctor does and there is nothing wrong with that, is there?