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Are England Still A Big Team |
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#76 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,844
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Pretty well all half decent teams get out of the group. You have to be pretty bad not to. So in the knockout stages, we are 0 for 9, and have never beaten a socalled top team.
0 for 9 It's clearly not England's entire knockout record, for any number of obvious reasons. |
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#77 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 20,783
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They're one of, if not the biggest supporter national team.
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#78 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 17,852
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The penalties argument is fair enough but you can cut the controversy nonsense out, the English media are always going to create that and any team can point to an injustice in the game when they have lost, that's not a valid argument at all. Please bear in mind that England were the beneficiaries of one of the biggest controversial decisions in football history - their third goal in 1966.
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#79 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,746
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We missed a golden opportunity to win a second World Cup in 1990. Argentina were dire in the 1990 final and I believe we could have beaten them if we had won the semi shootout.
If England were a Premier League team, we would be Everton. A decent team who are capable of beating anyone, but aren't good enough to win major trophies. |
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#80 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,408
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They're one of, if not the biggest supporter national team.
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#81 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,578
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We missed a golden opportunity to win a second World Cup in 1990. Argentina were dire in the 1990 final and I believe we could have beaten them if we had won the semi shootout.
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#82 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,053
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Sorry? Isn't the general argument that there are too many foreign players in the PL? And yet English players should go over-seas to get experience of how foreign players do it?
Oh, and yes, players here can learn from foreign players playing for their teams, but they're still being managed and coached in the English way, especially when young. Rather than the usual mentality of bleating about no opportunities at home, maybe they need to challenge themselves and seek opportunities elsewhere, especially if they want to be top footballers. It can't be too good for them to give in so easily with such feeble whingeing, particularly if they want success in a competitive sport. Quote:
In my opinion the main issue we have had over the years is not getting the manager right. We've had some decent ones who've we've let go (Capello, Erikson, Hoddle) for one reason or another and we've appointed some right idiots because they were English. Nothing about Hodgeson's CV makes me think he'll be a successful manager for England in the long run. There are some very talented young managers in the PL right now who the FA could much worse than looking at.
Been there, don't that. It's more than just a change of wallpaper, like a new manager can end up being. The issue is more ingrained in our character, which also includes our fans and media. If we can start tackling our insular attitude and broaden our minds, then maybe we can move on.
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#83 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,053
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Totally agree. Our players are too UK bound and in general incapable of learning more than one language.
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#84 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Solihull
Posts: 7,274
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There isn't a more cosmopolitan league in the world. Foreign owners, managers, technical staff & players. You do not need to go to the continent any more to get a flavour of the 'foreign' game. And don't use the grass roots excuse. PL clubs pick up lots of kids for their academies from the age of 10.
Sure you can argue that young English players don't get the first team experience because there are too many foreign players with more experience and that to get the experience they should find first team opportunities else where, but the bottom line is the PL teams pay the most so why on earth would a kid go somewhere for less pay just to improve the national team? And that is the bottom line. For 23 out of 24 months the national team in this country is at best a distraction and at worst a liability. Players, media and fans don't take it seriously until a major championship is upon us then suddenly we have all of this nonsense. In this county the club comes first then the national team some way behind so it's no surprise we don't do better. |
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#85 |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winter Hill
Posts: 1,830
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We're amongst the second tier of teams.
Teams are judged by how they perform when it matters and that is during tournaments. Someone mentioned Italy's poor form going into this tournament, but the fact is they generally produce when the serious business starts. We, on the other hand, don't really have any genuine World Cup pedigree at all and are routinely dumped out of the tournament by the first top side we face. We've got one World Cup win to our name and that is only because we hosted the thing - and that was 50 years ago. I imagine even some of the lesser nations fancy their chances against us. Rarely any of our international players play abroad as they prefer the comfort zone in the Premier League where they look good amongst foreign players (use Rooney's World Cup record as an example). Sadly our players listen to the hype and believe that they are world beaters. But whilst Spain, Italy, France and Germany have won titles in the last 20 years, England is just opposition for them to play. |
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#86 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,328
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No, I don't consider England a big team. To be a big team you'd need to get to the semi-finals of the Euros or WC. Without reaching the last four of a major tournament I don't think any team can be described as big. We're just an average team with the rare moment of brilliance. (okay, very rare!)
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#87 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 103
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They have the support base of a big team, but unfortunately lack the world class players to be a big team. Gerrard is past it, Rooney isn't world class, there is no distinct quality in the squad. We don't have a match winner like Suarez or Neymar. We can't be a world class team, without world class players. Also, not a fan of Hodgsons tactics either.
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#88 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,250
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Big team yes. Good team no.
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#89 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,328
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England had the potential to be great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBxyPqV1BY I think a super fit Michael Owen playing with better English players and we could have got to a World Cup final. I think M Owen (when fit) was England's best striker since 1966. Sad the way his international career ended rather abruptly. |
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#90 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,213
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Quote:
There isn't a more cosmopolitan league in the world. Foreign owners, managers, technical staff & players. You do not need to go to the continent any more to get a flavour of the 'foreign' game. And don't use the grass roots excuse. PL clubs pick up lots of kids for their academies from the age of 10.
Sure you can argue that young English players don't get the first team experience because there are too many foreign players with more experience and that to get the experience they should find first team opportunities else where, but the bottom line is the PL teams pay the most so why on earth would a kid go somewhere for less pay just to improve the national team? And that is the bottom line. For 23 out of 24 months the national team in this country is at best a distraction and at worst a liability. Players, media and fans don't take it seriously until a major championship is upon us then suddenly we have all of this nonsense. In this county the club comes first then the national team some way behind so it's no surprise we don't do better. |
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#91 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,578
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Quote:
England had the potential to be great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBxyPqV1BY I think a super fit Michael Owen playing with better English players and we could have got to a World Cup final. I think M Owen (when fit) was England's best striker since 1966. Sad the way his international career ended rather abruptly. |
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#92 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
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NO we are not a big team, I don't think we have been for years. We are average at best. History shows this.
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#93 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Erskine, Renfrewshire.
Posts: 2,346
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Read this and make your mind up...
The big Five European Leagues and major tournament wins. England:...1966 Spain:...1964,..2008,..2010,..2012 Germany:...1954,..1972,..1974,..1980,..1990,..1996 Italy:... 1934,..1938,..1968,..1982,..2006 France:...1984,..1998,..2000 England with one solitary tournament win are also rans. |
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#94 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
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Until we understand our status, we can never hope to improve.
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