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Are England Still A Big Team


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Old 18-06-2014, 23:53
celesti
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Pretty well all half decent teams get out of the group. You have to be pretty bad not to. So in the knockout stages, we are 0 for 9, and have never beaten a socalled top team.

0 for 9
When you're quoting a list of teams England have lost to, the chances are you will see a lot of defeats yes.

It's clearly not England's entire knockout record, for any number of obvious reasons.
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Old 19-06-2014, 00:06
Jol44
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They're one of, if not the biggest supporter national team.
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Old 19-06-2014, 00:30
gemma-the-husky
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The penalties argument is fair enough but you can cut the controversy nonsense out, the English media are always going to create that and any team can point to an injustice in the game when they have lost, that's not a valid argument at all. Please bear in mind that England were the beneficiaries of one of the biggest controversial decisions in football history - their third goal in 1966.
As well as having Rattin sent off in the quarters.
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Old 19-06-2014, 00:57
Steveaustin316
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We missed a golden opportunity to win a second World Cup in 1990. Argentina were dire in the 1990 final and I believe we could have beaten them if we had won the semi shootout.

If England were a Premier League team, we would be Everton. A decent team who are capable of beating anyone, but aren't good enough to win major trophies.
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Old 19-06-2014, 01:23
doe_a_deer
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They're one of, if not the biggest supporter national team.
In what sense?
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Old 19-06-2014, 01:23
Xela M
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We missed a golden opportunity to win a second World Cup in 1990. Argentina were dire in the 1990 final and I believe we could have beaten them if we had won the semi shootout.
I agree. Even Germany weren't that good in 1990, but it's not always the best team that wins the World Cup.
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:03
Gort
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Sorry? Isn't the general argument that there are too many foreign players in the PL? And yet English players should go over-seas to get experience of how foreign players do it?
The point I'm making is that our players and tacticians are too insular, inflexible and looking at the short term. There are plenty of opportunities abroad that could end up benefiting our younger players, giving them great and varied experience, which would benefit the national team and English leagues. Rather than the usual whingeing about foreign players coming here and taking all our jobs, stealing our women, etc, they should be seeking out ways to play at the highest tiers possible, on foreign shores if need be, and thinking ahead. Still, I suppose they speak a different language out there beyond Blighty and don't have fish 'n' chips.

Oh, and yes, players here can learn from foreign players playing for their teams, but they're still being managed and coached in the English way, especially when young. Rather than the usual mentality of bleating about no opportunities at home, maybe they need to challenge themselves and seek opportunities elsewhere, especially if they want to be top footballers. It can't be too good for them to give in so easily with such feeble whingeing, particularly if they want success in a competitive sport.

In my opinion the main issue we have had over the years is not getting the manager right. We've had some decent ones who've we've let go (Capello, Erikson, Hoddle) for one reason or another and we've appointed some right idiots because they were English. Nothing about Hodgeson's CV makes me think he'll be a successful manager for England in the long run. There are some very talented young managers in the PL right now who the FA could much worse than looking at.
Been there, don't that. It's more than just a change of wallpaper, like a new manager can end up being. The issue is more ingrained in our character, which also includes our fans and media. If we can start tackling our insular attitude and broaden our minds, then maybe we can move on.
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:14
Gort
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Totally agree. Our players are too UK bound and in general incapable of learning more than one language.
I suppose it's not an accident that we're both Arsenal supporters.
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Old 19-06-2014, 08:50
Assa2
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There isn't a more cosmopolitan league in the world. Foreign owners, managers, technical staff & players. You do not need to go to the continent any more to get a flavour of the 'foreign' game. And don't use the grass roots excuse. PL clubs pick up lots of kids for their academies from the age of 10.

Sure you can argue that young English players don't get the first team experience because there are too many foreign players with more experience and that to get the experience they should find first team opportunities else where, but the bottom line is the PL teams pay the most so why on earth would a kid go somewhere for less pay just to improve the national team?

And that is the bottom line. For 23 out of 24 months the national team in this country is at best a distraction and at worst a liability. Players, media and fans don't take it seriously until a major championship is upon us then suddenly we have all of this nonsense. In this county the club comes first then the national team some way behind so it's no surprise we don't do better.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:01
speculator
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We're amongst the second tier of teams.

Teams are judged by how they perform when it matters and that is during tournaments. Someone mentioned Italy's poor form going into this tournament, but the fact is they generally produce when the serious business starts. We, on the other hand, don't really have any genuine World Cup pedigree at all and are routinely dumped out of the tournament by the first top side we face.

We've got one World Cup win to our name and that is only because we hosted the thing - and that was 50 years ago.

I imagine even some of the lesser nations fancy their chances against us.
England on home soil can be competitive as in 1966 and 1996. But when taken out of their "safety zone", exposes that England is only a 2nd tier football country. In the away qualification matches, England could only muster draws which "big countries" would have comfortable wins.

Rarely any of our international players play abroad as they prefer the comfort zone in the Premier League where they look good amongst foreign players (use Rooney's World Cup record as an example). Sadly our players listen to the hype and believe that they are world beaters. But whilst Spain, Italy, France and Germany have won titles in the last 20 years, England is just opposition for them to play.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:13
Ray_Smith
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No, I don't consider England a big team. To be a big team you'd need to get to the semi-finals of the Euros or WC. Without reaching the last four of a major tournament I don't think any team can be described as big. We're just an average team with the rare moment of brilliance. (okay, very rare!)
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:16
B_Bowler27
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They have the support base of a big team, but unfortunately lack the world class players to be a big team. Gerrard is past it, Rooney isn't world class, there is no distinct quality in the squad. We don't have a match winner like Suarez or Neymar. We can't be a world class team, without world class players. Also, not a fan of Hodgsons tactics either.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:19
Hetal
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Big team yes. Good team no.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:23
Ray_Smith
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England had the potential to be great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBxyPqV1BY


I think a super fit Michael Owen playing with better English players and we could have got to a World Cup final. I think M Owen (when fit) was England's best striker since 1966. Sad the way his international career ended rather abruptly.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:25
Pee
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There isn't a more cosmopolitan league in the world. Foreign owners, managers, technical staff & players. You do not need to go to the continent any more to get a flavour of the 'foreign' game. And don't use the grass roots excuse. PL clubs pick up lots of kids for their academies from the age of 10.

Sure you can argue that young English players don't get the first team experience because there are too many foreign players with more experience and that to get the experience they should find first team opportunities else where, but the bottom line is the PL teams pay the most so why on earth would a kid go somewhere for less pay just to improve the national team?

And that is the bottom line. For 23 out of 24 months the national team in this country is at best a distraction and at worst a liability. Players, media and fans don't take it seriously until a major championship is upon us then suddenly we have all of this nonsense. In this county the club comes first then the national team some way behind so it's no surprise we don't do better.
it's about more than just "getting a flavour" though, isn't it?
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:28
Xela M
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England had the potential to be great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBxyPqV1BY


I think a super fit Michael Owen playing with better English players and we could have got to a World Cup final. I think M Owen (when fit) was England's best striker since 1966. Sad the way his international career ended rather abruptly.
I can't believe people are deluding themselves about that 5:1 win over Germany. At the time, Germany was going through the worst football crisis in their history and would lose to a team of school kids. England weren't brilliant, Germany were just very poor. However, Germany learned their lesson and brought up a new generation of young players, whereas England did nothing. Even with a terrible team Germany managed to get to the WC final just a year later, whereas England got eliminated in the quarter finals again (!). So the joke is really on England.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:33
pixel_pixel
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NO we are not a big team, I don't think we have been for years. We are average at best. History shows this.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:33
TrebleKing
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Read this and make your mind up...

The big Five European Leagues and major tournament wins.

England:...1966

Spain:...1964,..2008,..2010,..2012

Germany:...1954,..1972,..1974,..1980,..1990,..1996

Italy:... 1934,..1938,..1968,..1982,..2006

France:...1984,..1998,..2000


England with one solitary tournament win are also rans.
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Old 20-06-2014, 23:41
pixel_pixel
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Until we understand our status, we can never hope to improve.
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