Am I the only person that thinks apart from the poor defending that Joe Hart should have got to at least 2 of the 4 goals scored against us ??
England vs Uruguay - ITV1 19/6 8pm
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As a (kind of) neutral Welshie who finds the tournament more interesting when England are in it, I thought they were two pretty good games which could've gone either way depending upon who took their chances. (I know this is stating the bleedin' obvious, really!) When England equalised, for a spell I thought they'd either go on to win or at least get the point, but there we go.
Little bit suprised the amount of stick Rooney is getting. Was in the right place for the goal, was unlucky hitting the crossbar and had a few other reasonable efforts. And an assist in the first game.
Will watch Italy v Costa Rica with interest, but in fairness there doesn't seem to be a lot of straw-clutching going on.
Little bit suprised the amount of stick Rooney is getting. Was in the right place for the goal, was unlucky hitting the crossbar and had a few other reasonable efforts. And an assist in the first game.
Will watch Italy v Costa Rica with interest, but in fairness there doesn't seem to be a lot of straw-clutching going on.
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“Haven't seen a whole lot from Suarez. I wonder how fit they are.”
“Haven't seen a whole lot from Suarez. I wonder how fit they are.”
I think you know now.
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“That's what you really think is holding back the English national side?”
“That's what you really think is holding back the English national side?”
No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.
Originally Posted by Sandra Bee:
“No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.”
“No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.”
Maybe that terrible anthem doesn't fill them with any pride.
Originally Posted by Par6:
“A heroes welcome awaits Suarez on merseyside, hell, they'll forgive him anything.”
“A heroes welcome awaits Suarez on merseyside, hell, they'll forgive him anything.”
Pity he wont be there. Chances are a big team will come in for him, and he will be of.
Originally Posted by Sandra Bee:
“No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.”
“No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.”
What utter tosh. Singing the anthem or not doesnt mean anything. This is a football match, not the X factor.
You can have pride playing for your country, and not sing the national anthem.
Originally Posted by duckymallard:
“You cannot be offside when the ball is played by a member of the opposition, only your own team.”
“You cannot be offside when the ball is played by a member of the opposition, only your own team.”
Thanks, I managed to overlook that obviously salient point.
I'd never even have questioned it, but a member of the BBC team, on the highlights programme, made the suggestion, which got me thinking.
Originally Posted by filmfan7:
“Am I the only person that thinks apart from the poor defending that Joe Hart should have got to at least 2 of the 4 goals scored against us ??”
“Am I the only person that thinks apart from the poor defending that Joe Hart should have got to at least 2 of the 4 goals scored against us ??”
I thought the second Uruguay goal was a great strike BUT if Hart had stood up, it would have hit him. He went low to his left and the ball went over his right shoulder.
Originally Posted by filmfan7:
“Am I the only person that thinks apart from the poor defending that Joe Hart should have got to at least 2 of the 4 goals scored against us ??”
“Am I the only person that thinks apart from the poor defending that Joe Hart should have got to at least 2 of the 4 goals scored against us ??”
See my post #1566, page 63.
Originally Posted by Sandra Bee:
“No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.”
“No, of course not but a little pride and fervour wouldn't go amiss and might even improve their game.
The will to win can work sometimes.”
That's very much papering over the cracks. And that's before even getting into an argument about the issues with the national anthem (not actually about the country but about a monarch who one may or may not support.) Seriously, singing the anthem makes no difference. Let's not pretend that England's failings are down to lack of passion or the players not caring. It's the World Cup. Of course they care. Doesn't mean they're good enough to do the business.
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“That's very much papering over the cracks. And that's before even getting into an argument about the issues with the national anthem (not actually about the country but about a monarch who one may or may not support.) Seriously, singing the anthem makes no difference. Let's not pretend that England's failings are down to lack of passion or the players not caring. It's the World Cup. Of course they care. Doesn't mean they're good enough to do the business.”
“That's very much papering over the cracks. And that's before even getting into an argument about the issues with the national anthem (not actually about the country but about a monarch who one may or may not support.) Seriously, singing the anthem makes no difference. Let's not pretend that England's failings are down to lack of passion or the players not caring. It's the World Cup. Of course they care. Doesn't mean they're good enough to do the business.”
Indeed.
Those players cared, the team however just wasn't good enough.
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“As a (kind of) neutral Welshie who finds the tournament more interesting when England are in it, I thought they were two pretty good games which could've gone either way depending upon who took their chances. (I know this is stating the bleedin' obvious, really!) When England equalised, for a spell I thought they'd either go on to win or at least get the point, but there we go.
Little bit suprised the amount of stick Rooney is getting. Was in the right place for the goal, was unlucky hitting the crossbar and had a few other reasonable efforts. And an assist in the first game.
Will watch Italy v Costa Rica with interest, but in fairness there doesn't seem to be a lot of straw-clutching going on.”
“As a (kind of) neutral Welshie who finds the tournament more interesting when England are in it, I thought they were two pretty good games which could've gone either way depending upon who took their chances. (I know this is stating the bleedin' obvious, really!) When England equalised, for a spell I thought they'd either go on to win or at least get the point, but there we go.
Little bit suprised the amount of stick Rooney is getting. Was in the right place for the goal, was unlucky hitting the crossbar and had a few other reasonable efforts. And an assist in the first game.
Will watch Italy v Costa Rica with interest, but in fairness there doesn't seem to be a lot of straw-clutching going on.”
Thought Rooney was looking the sharpest he has in an England shirt for a long time. It wasn't a world beating performance, but he did okay.
Really sick of hearing that England lost to 'one man'. What a complete lack of respect, can England not lose with any dignity? Apart from Suarez, Cavani had a beautifully timed assist, Lodeiro put in such a shift he covered over 9km in his 65 minutes on the pitch(!), and Godin marshalled his defence superbly throughout.
It was pure bliss listening to the commentators excitement and bias tail off between the 60th and 75th minutes. Rather than be impartial and unbiased, they took the huff. How professional, boys!
Hoping for a dull, anticlimactic 0-0 draw with Italy and Costa Rica tonight. Then the World Cup will be enjoyable again, cos it never is as long as there's an English presence.
It was pure bliss listening to the commentators excitement and bias tail off between the 60th and 75th minutes. Rather than be impartial and unbiased, they took the huff. How professional, boys!
Hoping for a dull, anticlimactic 0-0 draw with Italy and Costa Rica tonight. Then the World Cup will be enjoyable again, cos it never is as long as there's an English presence.
They still cannot hold on to the ball or string together half a dozen passes. They've got no imagination, game plan or creativity and end up just hoofing the ball up field in the hope of something happening but ultimately they just give the ball away, AGAIN!
The above is part of my post from 2 years ago when we got knocked out of the Euros and nothing has changed.
Some people say that Roy has improved the way England play, but I don't think so. Whoever we play in tournaments, whether it's big teams like Germany, Italy or the so called minnows, they all play better quality football than us because they can all hold on to the ball, pass it and create chances.
I would love to watch an England training session just to see exactly what they work on, because clearly it isn't ball possession or passing. I sometimes wonder if they have ever played together as a team!
The above is part of my post from 2 years ago when we got knocked out of the Euros and nothing has changed.
Some people say that Roy has improved the way England play, but I don't think so. Whoever we play in tournaments, whether it's big teams like Germany, Italy or the so called minnows, they all play better quality football than us because they can all hold on to the ball, pass it and create chances.
I would love to watch an England training session just to see exactly what they work on, because clearly it isn't ball possession or passing. I sometimes wonder if they have ever played together as a team!
Originally Posted by JIMO96:
“Really sick of hearing that England lost to 'one man'. What a complete lack of respect, can England not lose with any dignity? Apart from Suarez, Cavani had a beautifully timed assist, Lodeiro put in such a shift he covered over 9km in his 65 minutes on the pitch(!), and Godin marshalled his defence superbly throughout.
It was pure bliss listening to the commentators excitement and bias tail off between the 60th and 75th minutes. Rather than be impartial and unbiased, they took the huff. How professional, boys!
Hoping for a dull, anticlimactic 0-0 draw with Italy and Costa Rica tonight. Then the World Cup will be enjoyable again, cos it never is as long as there's an English presence.”
“Really sick of hearing that England lost to 'one man'. What a complete lack of respect, can England not lose with any dignity? Apart from Suarez, Cavani had a beautifully timed assist, Lodeiro put in such a shift he covered over 9km in his 65 minutes on the pitch(!), and Godin marshalled his defence superbly throughout.
It was pure bliss listening to the commentators excitement and bias tail off between the 60th and 75th minutes. Rather than be impartial and unbiased, they took the huff. How professional, boys!
Hoping for a dull, anticlimactic 0-0 draw with Italy and Costa Rica tonight. Then the World Cup will be enjoyable again, cos it never is as long as there's an English presence.”
They're not saying they lost to one man, just that one man was the difference, which he was. Gustavo Poyet said that Uruguay wouldn't have won without him, so how does that fit into your theory?
Some people just see what they want to see I suppose. Sorry that Scotland didn't make it.
Originally Posted by FMKK:
“That's very much papering over the cracks. And that's before even getting into an argument about the issues with the national anthem (not actually about the country but about a monarch who one may or may not support.) Seriously, singing the anthem makes no difference. Let's not pretend that England's failings are down to lack of passion or the players not caring. It's the World Cup. Of course they care. Doesn't mean they're good enough to do the business.”
“That's very much papering over the cracks. And that's before even getting into an argument about the issues with the national anthem (not actually about the country but about a monarch who one may or may not support.) Seriously, singing the anthem makes no difference. Let's not pretend that England's failings are down to lack of passion or the players not caring. It's the World Cup. Of course they care. Doesn't mean they're good enough to do the business.”
Agreed, some of the reasoning in this thread is ridiculous.
Originally Posted by JIMO96:
“Really sick of hearing that England lost to 'one man'. What a complete lack of respect, can England not lose with any dignity? Apart from Suarez, Cavani had a beautifully timed assist, Lodeiro put in such a shift he covered over 9km in his 65 minutes on the pitch(!), and Godin marshalled his defence superbly throughout.
It was pure bliss listening to the commentators excitement and bias tail off between the 60th and 75th minutes. Rather than be impartial and unbiased, they took the huff. How professional, boys!
Hoping for a dull, anticlimactic 0-0 draw with Italy and Costa Rica tonight. Then the World Cup will be enjoyable again, cos it never is as long as there's an English presence.”
“Really sick of hearing that England lost to 'one man'. What a complete lack of respect, can England not lose with any dignity? Apart from Suarez, Cavani had a beautifully timed assist, Lodeiro put in such a shift he covered over 9km in his 65 minutes on the pitch(!), and Godin marshalled his defence superbly throughout.
It was pure bliss listening to the commentators excitement and bias tail off between the 60th and 75th minutes. Rather than be impartial and unbiased, they took the huff. How professional, boys!
Hoping for a dull, anticlimactic 0-0 draw with Italy and Costa Rica tonight. Then the World Cup will be enjoyable again, cos it never is as long as there's an English presence.”
Not forgetting that Godin should of been sent off for the second offence, besides that he played well.
Originally Posted by Serial Lurker:
“They're not saying they lost to one man, just that one man was the difference, which he was. Gustavo Poyet said that Uruguay wouldn't have won without him, so how does that fit into your theory?
Some people just see what they want to see I suppose. Sorry that Scotland didn't make it.”
“They're not saying they lost to one man, just that one man was the difference, which he was. Gustavo Poyet said that Uruguay wouldn't have won without him, so how does that fit into your theory?
Some people just see what they want to see I suppose. Sorry that Scotland didn't make it.”
Watch you don't drown in your own bitterness there. I don't remember posting any theory, just expressing distaste at what I'd heard so many times last night and on this forum. Poyet was the only one on last nights panel with any sense of perspective.
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“Not forgetting that Godin should of been sent off for the second offence, besides that he played well.”
“Not forgetting that Godin should of been sent off for the second offence, besides that he played well.”
Incidents like that happen every game in football, they just appear as excuses.
Originally Posted by JIMO96:
“Watch you don't drown in your own bitterness there. I don't remember posting any theory, just expressing distaste at what I'd heard so many times last night and on this forum. Poyet was the only one on last nights panel with any sense of perspective.”
“Watch you don't drown in your own bitterness there. I don't remember posting any theory, just expressing distaste at what I'd heard so many times last night and on this forum. Poyet was the only one on last nights panel with any sense of perspective.”
So someone who said the thing that you're 'expressing distate at' is the only one with any sense of perspective? Interesting.
Originally Posted by Serial Lurker:
“So someone who said the thing that you're 'expressing distate at' is the only one with any sense of perspective? Interesting.”
“So someone who said the thing that you're 'expressing distate at' is the only one with any sense of perspective? Interesting.”
READ the posts FFS! Opinion of most English panellists (showing no hint of any bitterness, self-importance, arrogance or deluded entitlement whatsoever!): we lost to one man
Opinion of Gus Poyet: that one man was merely the difference (as you correctly pointed out)
Can you fathom out which opinion is annoying me? And which one shows some perspective?
Originally Posted by JIMO96:
“READ the posts FFS! Opinion of most English panellists (showing no hint of any bitterness, self-importance, arrogance or deluded entitlement whatsoever!): we lost to one man
Opinion of Gus Poyet: that one man was merely the difference (as you correctly pointed out)
Can you fathom out which opinion is annoying me? And which one shows some perspective?”
“READ the posts FFS! Opinion of most English panellists (showing no hint of any bitterness, self-importance, arrogance or deluded entitlement whatsoever!): we lost to one man
Opinion of Gus Poyet: that one man was merely the difference (as you correctly pointed out)
Can you fathom out which opinion is annoying me? And which one shows some perspective?”
But that's what they were all saying. And anyway, they're just marginally different turns of phrase. It takes some leap to turn it into bitter, self-important, arrogant, deluded and entitled. One suspects you'd made your mind up before anyone had said anything.
I don't mind anyone not wanting England to win, but if it's just because of usual ABE silliness then don't try and disguise it as being in the interests of fair and balanced journalism or such nonsense.
Originally Posted by MakinItHappen:
“Everyone's talking about world class finisher this and world class finisher that, at the end of the day, England have taken a step down defensively from the Ferdinand and Terry days.
Not to forget the tactics were too attacking down the flanks obsessive and the thing that kills it all is the most technically gifted player in the team was left on the bench. Jack Wilshere.
No single ability to retain possession either, just kick and then rush.
Most over-rated and over-hyped player in English footballing history, Steven Gerrard again makes the mistake that costs England. Did it in the Euros one year too. Cost Liverpool the title this year, let's not also forget? It's happening to often and coincidentally always at crucial times for that man.
All that useless hype, most of the players are just chokers, you could see in the final third each time, they were all freezing.
The referee was 90% handed a brown envelope imo tho, but never-the-less, pathetic tactics and pathetic performance.
Italy's instinct isn't to attack and I doubt after beating Costa Rica tomorrow they'll feel any desire to against Urguay, knowing the draw gets them top spot. Hilarious. Furthermore proof that defense is the number one priority in any sport.
England just don't wanna conform man. They have an excellent technically gifted player that can help tick the play over in midfield in Wilshere, but instead they wanna be this hell-for-leather spirited side, full of passion, lunging in with challenges, hoofing the ball down the flanks and hoping for a bit of 'one-off' lucky/occasional 2 touch skill to create something.
I'm not saying play triangular football and shit but what is this obsession with taking full-backs on and whipping in balls? We don't have great wingers or great crossers... it's all so hopeful. I cannot even believe how fortunate the equaliser was, Johnson just lunged his foot at the ball and it ended up in Rooney's path. lol
England's mentality is to always grind out a win, guts out a win, just play football and do the best you can TO WIN. Stop trying to guarantee the ****ing result. That's the real difference between England and all these South American sides. England try not to lose it and other teams try to win it. NOT ONE player in the midfield with a good first touch, not one. Just some 4-3-3 kick and rush joke.
Roy used to even manage clubs in Italy, so I didn't expect that jargon of crap, but there you go. If only Aaron Ramsey was English and not Welsh, then they could have Ramsey and Wilshere in the middle keeping possession with a defensive player in there too. Hodson proved he's tactically poor today and last week at this level and his player scouting during the premier-league season, lol, abysmal.
Every England manager plays it safe tho, have you noticed? Or is it just me? Make the most star-name in the team the captain and throw him in as a defensive midfielder, even tho that's not really his best position and then see what the youngsters can do on the wings. To me he's played it too safe and he's also tried to be far to radical with his changes. Ashley Cole would have caught up and somehow stopped Suarez getting off that shot. Cahil didn't even lunge.
Don't even know why I'm pissed, but I guess it's coz every 4 years we get the same bull-crap hype and then the same manager playing the same bullcrap 'not to lose' tactics. Play keep ball, revolutionise the way the England team play, it's not too drastic and so what if you fail? Stop this same crap which is reliant on kick and rush luck.”
“Everyone's talking about world class finisher this and world class finisher that, at the end of the day, England have taken a step down defensively from the Ferdinand and Terry days.
Not to forget the tactics were too attacking down the flanks obsessive and the thing that kills it all is the most technically gifted player in the team was left on the bench. Jack Wilshere.
No single ability to retain possession either, just kick and then rush.
Most over-rated and over-hyped player in English footballing history, Steven Gerrard again makes the mistake that costs England. Did it in the Euros one year too. Cost Liverpool the title this year, let's not also forget? It's happening to often and coincidentally always at crucial times for that man.
All that useless hype, most of the players are just chokers, you could see in the final third each time, they were all freezing.
The referee was 90% handed a brown envelope imo tho, but never-the-less, pathetic tactics and pathetic performance.
Italy's instinct isn't to attack and I doubt after beating Costa Rica tomorrow they'll feel any desire to against Urguay, knowing the draw gets them top spot. Hilarious. Furthermore proof that defense is the number one priority in any sport.
England just don't wanna conform man. They have an excellent technically gifted player that can help tick the play over in midfield in Wilshere, but instead they wanna be this hell-for-leather spirited side, full of passion, lunging in with challenges, hoofing the ball down the flanks and hoping for a bit of 'one-off' lucky/occasional 2 touch skill to create something.
I'm not saying play triangular football and shit but what is this obsession with taking full-backs on and whipping in balls? We don't have great wingers or great crossers... it's all so hopeful. I cannot even believe how fortunate the equaliser was, Johnson just lunged his foot at the ball and it ended up in Rooney's path. lol
England's mentality is to always grind out a win, guts out a win, just play football and do the best you can TO WIN. Stop trying to guarantee the ****ing result. That's the real difference between England and all these South American sides. England try not to lose it and other teams try to win it. NOT ONE player in the midfield with a good first touch, not one. Just some 4-3-3 kick and rush joke.
Roy used to even manage clubs in Italy, so I didn't expect that jargon of crap, but there you go. If only Aaron Ramsey was English and not Welsh, then they could have Ramsey and Wilshere in the middle keeping possession with a defensive player in there too. Hodson proved he's tactically poor today and last week at this level and his player scouting during the premier-league season, lol, abysmal.
Every England manager plays it safe tho, have you noticed? Or is it just me? Make the most star-name in the team the captain and throw him in as a defensive midfielder, even tho that's not really his best position and then see what the youngsters can do on the wings. To me he's played it too safe and he's also tried to be far to radical with his changes. Ashley Cole would have caught up and somehow stopped Suarez getting off that shot. Cahil didn't even lunge.
Don't even know why I'm pissed, but I guess it's coz every 4 years we get the same bull-crap hype and then the same manager playing the same bullcrap 'not to lose' tactics. Play keep ball, revolutionise the way the England team play, it's not too drastic and so what if you fail? Stop this same crap which is reliant on kick and rush luck.”
There is a great difference between English mentality and Latin mentality though .. we automatically have the 'we will fail' mentality. The fans and the media half expect it and the players don't play with confidence. Capello always said he didn't recognise the team once it came to the big competitions .. perhaps because it's been so long since we've won a title .. the pressure is immense (and every foreign manager we've had has said that too much pressure is put on our players by the media.) English players just don't have the swagger or inherent self belief (which can often come over as extreme arrogance) that some of the other top international players have. Half of the time they are worrying too much about the reaction from home which is only supportive up to a point. We had the same thing with Wimbledon .. until Andy (and he has Scottish fire in his belly) but the English players have yet to show a killer instinct. They always play with nerves.
Originally Posted by Serial Lurker:
“But that's what they were all saying. And anyway, they're just marginally different turns of phrase. It takes some leap to turn it into bitter, self-important, arrogant, deluded and entitled. One suspects you'd made your mind up before anyone had said anything.
I don't mind anyone not wanting England to win, but if it's just because of usual ABE silliness then don't try and disguise it as being in the interests of fair and balanced journalism or such nonsense.”
“But that's what they were all saying. And anyway, they're just marginally different turns of phrase. It takes some leap to turn it into bitter, self-important, arrogant, deluded and entitled. One suspects you'd made your mind up before anyone had said anything.
I don't mind anyone not wanting England to win, but if it's just because of usual ABE silliness then don't try and disguise it as being in the interests of fair and balanced journalism or such nonsense.”
Fair and balanced journalism? Maybe, just maybe, England would have one or 2 more well wishers up here if any of that was on show during an England match. The professionalism of both ITV/BBC goes out the window whenever England play.
I'm sorry but there was no 'leap' on my part. The way Chiles said it was EXACTLY as I described. I would even go so far as to say dismissive of the rest of the Uruguayan side. Speaking of dismissive, a whole bunch of people on here are already talking about Costa Rica in those terms. Such an arrogant nation, good riddance.
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