Exactly.

People that think it's about passion and all this hell-for-leather crap need a slap, they're throwing out cliched thoughts, which are just inaccurate. Quit thinking passively for gods sake, the South American teams carry the most passion out of any in these World Cups, do we see them playing thoughtless kick and rush football? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't think he was that good a manager to begin with but that's by the by.

Part of the game tonight was lost OFF the pitch though, everyone knows you don't give the opposition ammo like he did to Suarez.

In a nutshell, international football is methodical, England are not methodical and never will be methodical, not until one manager comes in and revolitionises the setup. They think everything is about hoofing the ball to the wings and taking on your man. Did that work? One time? No, it didn't, even the ****ing goal today from the flank was luck.

England have the players, Wilshere is a perfect player for England to use to play some ball possession football, but Roy wants to play a different formation, just so if the players **** it up, he can say 'i tried something new' 'i brought something new to the table' ... no you didn't, you ****ing TOOL.

The Premier League is an entirely different kettle of fish and bears little relation to international football. We have a somewhat overinflated opinion of the Premiership. Exciting as it is, it's certainly not the best league in the world.

Let's face it, with only a couple of exceptions, none of our players are the best players at their club. The best players in the Premiership are all foreign. If our young players are so good, why are none of the bigger European clubs interested in them? How many of our players are ever likely to play for a big club on the continent? None.

This is very accurate.

The South American leagues are not even that bad and they know how to defend, tactically. The premierleague teams are not tactical, at all.

Many live in this premierleague bubble, thinking it really is the first or second best league in the world. Perhaps for entertainment, it is, but for quality and tactics? LOL!

I find it funny that people are complaining that Roy was too afraid to drop star names (I.e Rooney and Gerrard) while simultaneously complaining that he dropped star names (Terry and Cole.)

Yep, that's basically it in a nutshell.

Our mentality is to charge around like lunatics, get the ball forward or wide as quickly as possible, take people on and smash a hopeful ball across the box without even looking up. None of the top teams play this way.

There is nothing wrong with being passionate, but you can be passionate and composed at the same time. This is something that is completely lost on us English. Our players always look flustered, hurried and seem to put no thought at all into what they're doing.

Basically.

He kept Gerrard in a wrong position, changed to the wrong formation and played young, fast youngsters down the flanks (Whom he knew were popular)

He dropped terry because he wanted harmony and cohesion in the squad and none of the whole crap that came with that thug and then he dropped cole because the bloke wasn't playing regular first team football. However the defense without these two IS SHIT. Simple as that.

Gerrard is ineffective as a defensive midfielder and the wingers are too hit or miss. Rooney deserved to keep his spot but with the right players in the side.

Everybody knows Jack Wilshere suits international football, because he holds the ball so well in tight bloody situations, the rest don't. Why give Gerrard a holding give and go role and just throw 2 youngsters with no experience or pedigree at this level on the wings? Don't give me this 'giving them a go' BS either.

One thing that always gets me is when people talk about "at this level" in international football as if it's the pinnacle. International football is generally a lower standard than most of them play for at their clubs; it's basically an overblown FA Cup, and you have to tailor yourselves to that thinking.

Did you see the way Gerrard lunged in with the challenge at around the 70 minute mark a few minutes before we scored?

You just knew that was so he could 'show' everyone watching back at home, how much 'passion' he has for his badge. They are performing seals, stiff performing seals.

The thing is we all know what the problem is and that England will need to conform, but the message isn't getting through. Even the football pundits aren't mentioning it, they are simply blaming this mostly on Suarez being this so called amazing finisher and the defense not being good enough.

Our voices will never get heard, becuase all the managers wanna do is please the press and all the players wanna do is please the fans. So all we'll ever get is kick and rush passion from players with a poor first touch for many world cups to come.

I completely understand why Terry and Cole are out of the side though and Baines was in pretty good form in the league so I think making him first choice was a fair move.

I actually think Milner would have done a far better job than Gerrard today. He has energy and work ethic in abundance and would really have got about the Uruguay midfield. In the future, I think a combo of Wilshire and Chamberlain through the middle should be considered. Jack can keep possession and control the tempo while Ox can drive forward with some attacking impetus. The issue with that is finding someone else to do the defensive legwork. Both of those guys track back but they also look to go forward, leaving gaps. But that's definitely the direction that England should go. Gary Neville has talked about pace and power on punditry all year. Those two have those attributes as well as technique.

I'm not sure what the defensive solution is. Maybe ditch Baines and Jagielka now and start giving Shaw and Stones the experience now. I'm not sure that Glen Johnson is good enough either.

Up front, Sterling and Sturridge are clearly the future but I really don't think that Welbeck is good enough.

Yeah, let's keep scapegoating the manager, when we all know the players just aren't good enough.

It needs more composure and patience than your standard league game generally. Although this has been a high scoring tournament so far, it also tends to be more defensive so good technique is required to break down top teams. England lacked all of these attributes.

Are you just plucking this crap from thin-air? Or are you genuinely trying to come across ignorant?

You seriously under-rate the South American sides.

Tell me the countries that wouldn't survive in the premierleague or la liga? Japan, Greece, Cameroon and teams obviously, but they are not being taken into any equation when referring to 'at this level'.

'At this level'

Columbia, Uruguay, Mexico < These 3 teams people thought were shit before the competition, well that was the general consensus, probably not Uruguay after what they did at the last world cup, but generally, most assume these types of teams aren't at a really good level and I just have to disagree. Just because we don't see the star, aftershave brands playing for them means nothing. When you say 'generally' a lower standard of club teams, they definitely are not those.... so infact, I dunno how you can even say the word generally.

I really don't agree with this notion that club football is better than international football interms of its quality. Obviously if we are comparing the very best champions league sides, then yeah, but otherwise... WHAT?! Teams between 5th and 15th in the premierleague, la liga and serie A....? Better than Mexico, Columbia etc... NO.

Huh, please don't project your own ignorance onto others.

I can't disagree with any of that either.

Unless we make fundamental changes to our mentality and style of play, we will never beat a top international team, let alone win a tournament.

It's all the more frustrating because, against Italy, we did actually show some composure and patience at times. Ultimately, we choked and ran out of ideas in and around the box, but we at least tried to play some intelligent possession football.

It was a good performance against Italy because it wasn't a typical England performance. Tonight we just reverted to the same old kick and rush crap that has gotten us nowhere for half a century.

Correct. He has to manage.

It's the demand of the majority of football watching UK fans that their teams play quick, direct football and so the general style of play in this country develops. As a result there are a shortage of British players of certain types which are common in other countries.

The defensive midfielder who can plug gaps, be disciplined, tactically aware and play simple passes is one. And the other (very similar) is the midfielder who maintains possession and dictates tempo and stays behind the play. If you are lucky you can get all these attributes in one player but England are particularly weak in that area right now.

The players they have in those types of areas just don't strike me as natural fits. They are all converted from other positions or always want to get on the end of things and play the number 10 role really.

So I also think England's (and the UK's as a whole) general problem is their style of play, which is actually a bigger problem than not having the best group of players or not having a good manager, because it's cultural. Too many fans want the long direct pass and scream at players to get rid of the ball and soon that's all they know.

Roy went for the exact same approach as he did against Italy. It just didn't work. He went to not concede over scoring. We needed to attack. The annoying thing is in friendlies Roy went with young attacking sides that played well and seriously troubled some big teams but it seems we will never see that team in tournaments.

If he's going for defending it isn't working and if we are playing positively and attacking well that isn't working either. Our approach against Italy was right. It worked and we were unlucky. Here it just wasn't and we rarely looked a threat. Against CR IMO we need to ditch Gerrard and Henderson go for attacking players like Barkley and Wilshere (even though I'm not a fan he goes forward) have Lallana in the centre with Sterling and someone else on the wings and try a big target man like Lambert who will get onto crosses like Sturridge and Rooney never seem to do. Or put Rooney behind Lambert with Lallana out wide.

We need to try a different style going forward or play more attacking rather than meaningless passes to the wing and crosses to an empty box.

Watching the game I was literally commentating on what was going to happen (Henderson, Johnson, cross, clear, Baines, cross, clear, Gerrard, Cahill, back to Hart rinse and repeat for 90 minutes).

The passion I am talking about is that the national team is the priority. Passion in the badge.

Now if you would like to try and slap me, be my guest. It won't end well.

What a fool.....Woy letting slip last night that he was playing for a draw

Hmm where have I heard that from him before?

Send the kids out in the next match, tell them to enjoy themselves and that the result is unimportant

He doesn't want to leave.

People said that about the 'Golden Generation' yet the same issues were evident when they were playing for England. Backed up by foreign players they might look decent but on their own their exposed.

Jack Wilshere spends more time on the treatment table than the pitch. Ross Barkley wasn't the first name on Everton's teamsheet. Sterling and Sturridge had a strong season but it was the first time they've shown their pedigree; will they keep it up, especially if Suarez leaves? Lallana is the same - a few players were picked for this tournament after one strong season. It says it all about England's lack of depth that there was no one else available.