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Worst England team ever?


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Old 20-06-2014, 00:15
Flat Matt
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Graham Taylor era was terrible
You can put that down to the manager 100% though.

Taylor still had some very good players to work with, but he didn't pick them. I still remember his refusal to play Chris Waddle even though he was playing out of his skin for Sheffield Wednesday. Totally crazy decision from a f**king useless manager.

The problem we have now is very different. Our squad is absolute shit and I don't think any manager could get much out of this bunch.
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Old 20-06-2014, 00:18
jediknight2k1
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England have been in decline since 1966. There isn't a manager alive who could win the World Cup with England and it won't happen before 2066 either.
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Old 20-06-2014, 00:28
ShaunIOW
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How did they end up in that position? Did they both finish runner ups in groups and have to play off against each other or did they have a different qualifying system?

(I've started googling it. Already amazed how good Scotland apparently were then! Yep, that was a very weird qualifying format - a 3 team group.)

So were England a strong team mid 70s then?
Play-offs are a relatively new thing, it used to be group winners and that was it, but back then there were only 33 European Countries now following the break up of the USSR and Yugoslavia plus some smaller nations being added we now have 53 European Countries (or may be 54 with Gibraltar).

Many people also fail to remember that even though the English League didn't have many foreign players (unlike today), we didn't class Scottish, Irish or Welsh players as foreign, so even though we had the only 4 foreign players allowed rule like other countries we never had a guaranteed 7 for the home nation playing unlike other countries. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the Premier League if the UK votes to leave the EU as a lot of the foreign players won't have EU employment law protection and will be classed the same as non-EU players are now with numbers restricted (the Bosman ruling as it was an EU law might not apply anymore either).
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Old 20-06-2014, 00:29
celesti
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That's some incredibly specific wild guessing.
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Old 20-06-2014, 01:35
jeffiner1892
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I'm not sure if this is our worst team ever, but it's certainly the worst we've had in a very long time.

We're usually pretty strong at the back, but we don't even have that anymore. This team is very, very ordinary and I don't think any manager could do much with it to be honest.
Roy Hodgson took a squad that had more players in the 2010 World Cup than any other PL side (including two who played in the final), had reached a European semi final the season before and had (apart from two players) trounced Real Madrid some 18 months previously to having to stave off relegation.

Somehow I think another manager could do a marginally better job.

As for the thread title, although it's not World Cup would McClaren's side not come under this umbrella?
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Old 20-06-2014, 01:40
Ænima
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Plenty of decent players in the 50's,60's, 70's and 80's been downhill since Euro 96.
And that was the first tournament I watched
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Old 20-06-2014, 02:15
gemma-the-husky
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Suirely the teams that didn't reach the Finals in the late 70's were, actually, better than this lot? How would you like Allan Clarke up front??
Clarke, chivers, channon, hateley. Mcdonald,

Where are our centre forwards now.
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Old 20-06-2014, 02:17
gemma-the-husky
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You can put that down to the manager 100% though.

Taylor still had some very good players to work with, but he didn't pick them. I still remember his refusal to play Chris Waddle even though he was playing out of his skin for Sheffield Wednesday. Totally crazy decision from a f**king useless manager.

The problem we have now is very different. Our squad is absolute shit and I don't think any manager could get much out of this bunch.
Taylor was so bloody rubbish, why on earth do the BBC value his opinion on radio.

Armfield was always interesting.
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Old 20-06-2014, 02:25
gemma-the-husky
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How did they end up in that position? Did they both finish runner ups in groups and have to play off against each other or did they have a different qualifying system?

(I've started googling it. Already amazed how good Scotland apparently were then! Yep, that was a very weird qualifying format - a 3 team group.)

So were England a strong team mid 70s then?
30 years ago and further back every english team got loads of scottish players in their teams, most had scottish feeder clubs. Man utd had lou macari, and strachan. Liverpool had dalglish and souness. Loads more. Archie gemmill of trainspotting fame played for Derby.

They dont seem to come down here now.

When jacky charlton managed ireland he hunted out english league players with an irish qualification.

Scotland dont seem to do that any more. If i was a scottish manager, i would be looking hard for players in england qualified to play.
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Old 20-06-2014, 03:28
Alrightmate
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In terms of the group stage it is the worst performance of all time.

England have never lost games 1 and 2 of the group stage. It's happened in this tournament. This was mentioned on ITV directly after the match so I assume this is correct information.
This is a very tough group.

FIFA World Rankings:

Uruguay 7th
Italy 9th
England 10th
Plus Costa Rica who appear to be a lot better than their 28th placing might indicate.

Italy and Uruguay are usually the type of teams we'd expect England to meet after we've qualified for the next round, not before.
Usually there are two teams who are obvious qualifiers, of which we expect England to be one. But to have to face two difficult teams to beat for any team, let alone England, plus Costa Rica who look to be one of the best of the 'minnows', then this group is really tough.
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Old 20-06-2014, 06:54
mattlamb
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In terms of the group stage it is the worst performance of all time.

England have never lost games 1 and 2 of the group stage. It's happened in this tournament. This was mentioned on ITV directly after the match so I assume this is correct information.
True.

Our Euros record was poor at one stage though.
Didn't qualify in 1984.
We got no points in the group games in 1988 (including a 1-0 defeat against Republic of Ireland in an appallingly bad game).
2 points to finish bottom of the group in Euro 1992.

Three very poor tournaments in succession


We have no right to succeed
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Old 20-06-2014, 06:56
mattlamb
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Oh look, another broken record.
He was also one of our best players in last night's game.
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Old 20-06-2014, 06:59
mattlamb
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Play-offs are a relatively new thing, it used to be group winners and that was it, but back then there were only 33 European Countries now following the break up of the USSR and Yugoslavia plus some smaller nations being added we now have 53 European Countries (or may be 54 with Gibraltar).

Many people also fail to remember that even though the English League didn't have many foreign players (unlike today), we didn't class Scottish, Irish or Welsh players as foreign, so even though we had the only 4 foreign players allowed rule like other countries we never had a guaranteed 7 for the home nation playing unlike other countries. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the Premier League if the UK votes to leave the EU as a lot of the foreign players won't have EU employment law protection and will be classed the same as non-EU players are now with numbers restricted (the Bosman ruling as it was an EU law might not apply anymore either).

I think nationality rulings in domestic football varied from country to country in the old days.

For example, I think Portugal often had many Brazilians in their league
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Old 20-06-2014, 07:01
mattlamb
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Play-offs are a relatively new thing, it used to be group winners and that was it, but back then there were only 33 European Countries now following the break up of the USSR and Yugoslavia plus some smaller nations being added we now have 53 European Countries (or may be 54 with Gibraltar).

Many people also fail to remember that even though the English League didn't have many foreign players (unlike today), we didn't class Scottish, Irish or Welsh players as foreign, so even though we had the only 4 foreign players allowed rule like other countries we never had a guaranteed 7 for the home nation playing unlike other countries. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the Premier League if the UK votes to leave the EU as a lot of the foreign players won't have EU employment law protection and will be classed the same as non-EU players are now with numbers restricted (the Bosman ruling as it was an EU law might not apply anymore either).

Another reason to vote to leave Europe in any future referendum!
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Old 20-06-2014, 07:03
mattlamb
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30 years ago and further back every english team got loads of scottish players in their teams, most had scottish feeder clubs. Man utd had lou macari, and strachan. Liverpool had dalglish and souness. Loads more. Archie gemmill of trainspotting fame played for Derby.

They dont seem to come down here now.

When jacky charlton managed ireland he hunted out english league players with an irish qualification.

Scotland dont seem to do that any more. If i was a scottish manager, i would be looking hard for players in england qualified to play.
They certainly were not feeder clubs.
English teams didn't buy mainly from one Scottish club
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