Just says it all really,
Gerrard was dire but of course its all rooneys fault
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Gerrard was poor but this is the first tournament where he really has been so (I know they were all crap in 2010 but he did score in the opening game, not his fault Green had butterfingers).
But I don't see why he's getting blamed solely for the winner, I must have missed those two ball watching defenders behind him.
But I don't see why he's getting blamed solely for the winner, I must have missed those two ball watching defenders behind him.
To be fair except for 10mins in the 2nd half, England were very poor, couldn't pass, retain, defend, attack or shoot. It's annoying because in those 10mins we played very well. We were beaten by a man whose been on crutches for 4 weeks and hasn't played any football. If you asked someone who doesn't know much about football, who in that starting 22 hasn't played football for 4 weeks and has been on crutches, he sure as hell wouldn't of picked a Uraguian player.
Originally Posted by jeffiner1892:
“Gerrard was poor but this is the first tournament where he really has been so (I know they were all crap in 2010 but he did score in the opening game, not his fault Green had butterfingers).
But I don't see why he's getting blamed solely for the winner, I must have missed those two ball watching defenders behind him.”
“Gerrard was poor but this is the first tournament where he really has been so (I know they were all crap in 2010 but he did score in the opening game, not his fault Green had butterfingers).
But I don't see why he's getting blamed solely for the winner, I must have missed those two ball watching defenders behind him.”
Exactly
It's no lie that Gerrard was poor
But who ever Solely blames him is purely demented, whoever blames one person be it Gerrard or someone else is purely demented
The entire team on the whole were poor
This Forum has gone crackers, even more so than before!!
England have some skillful, energetic players, but they lack intelligence.. They don't have the ability to think about what is happening around them. They pass into areas where they are gifting the opposition the ball. They don't spot the runs of either their own or opposition's players. In short, they are just not intelligent enough ... or to put that another way, they are thick.
Originally Posted by Joey_J:
“But who ever Solely blames him is purely demented, whoever blames one person be it Gerrard or someone else is purely demented
The entire team on the whole were poor”
“But who ever Solely blames him is purely demented, whoever blames one person be it Gerrard or someone else is purely demented
The entire team on the whole were poor”
I don't think they were poor. It's not as if we were torn apart last night. We had our chances and on another night we'd have been three up. We just didn't play as well as we did against Italy.. and the question has to be why?
Did we under estimate them? Did we assume this was the game we'd always win? Did we become obsessed with Suarez and his fitness?
Another question worth asking.. what changed between the two games? Only one answer to that: Rooney. He forced a move in position. For what? Yes he scored.. but it was a tap in. He wasn't exactly all over them. And we lost the SAS attacking that we saw constantly against Italy. Sturridge and Sterling running at the the defence and scaring them with pace and youth. What happened to that?
Perhaps Uruguay pressured us on the ball more than Italy forcing the mistakes? Maybe the heat in the first game meant both teams had time to pass the ball around without pressure because no one wanted to spend excessive amounts of energy.. and Uruguay brought us back to reality.
I dunno. I think it's worth digging deeper because I don't see why this has to be a "same old England" write off. We need to work out what went wrong.
Originally Posted by santa fe:
“England have some skillful, energetic players, but they lack intelligence.. They don't have the ability to think about what is happening around them. They pass into areas where they are gifting the opposition the ball. They don't spot the runs of either their own or opposition's players. In short, they are just not intelligent enough ... or to put that another way, they are thick.”
“England have some skillful, energetic players, but they lack intelligence.. They don't have the ability to think about what is happening around them. They pass into areas where they are gifting the opposition the ball. They don't spot the runs of either their own or opposition's players. In short, they are just not intelligent enough ... or to put that another way, they are thick.”
This perfectly sums up the England squad. None of them have a footballing brain.
Originally Posted by Joey_J:
“The entire team on the whole were poor”
“The entire team on the whole were poor”
A bunch of untested kids, and has been's under a cluess owl was never going to work. Until those in charge of such things realise that Rooney (and others) are only good when playing WITH the world's best players, NOT against them, the farce will continue.
For some reason I've never been able to fathom, the governing body for the English football team consistently scupper whatever slim chances any team may have by appointing useless managers. Back in the day, for example, Brian Clough was snubbed, and this time around, dirty tricks ruled out Harry Redknap. Why this goes on, I have no idea.
So, I now do not even bother watching England matches at any level. I prefer to watch teams who try, like Holland, Germany and Brazil. England, is was and probably always will be a team of underachieving overpaid habitual losers, wasting everyone's time.
gerrard was very poor
rooney was average at best,fair play on the goal, no coincidence it was from a centre forward position
we should expect more from both though. too many excuses made for wayne, yes his stats are very good,but if we wanna be challenging we need to take our chances when presented with them.
rooney was average at best,fair play on the goal, no coincidence it was from a centre forward position
we should expect more from both though. too many excuses made for wayne, yes his stats are very good,but if we wanna be challenging we need to take our chances when presented with them.
I must have been watching a different game to most.
I thought that Gerrard was alright, and the goal wasn't his fault. Rooney was pretty good, I thought.
If you must find someone to blame, try the abysmal Glen Johnson.
I thought that Gerrard was alright, and the goal wasn't his fault. Rooney was pretty good, I thought.
If you must find someone to blame, try the abysmal Glen Johnson.
^^ Gerrard by screwing up the header, made a player who was off side, on side and allowed him a shooting chance. To be fair to Johnson he helped set up the England goal, but has been quite poor.
What I thought was telling is this, the commentators made a big thing out of Suarez being able to read the game and get in goal scoring opportunities, ok a lot of the time he's caught off side, but sometimes he's not. Were our players every caught off side, don't think there was many times, and that shows we lack the attack, and the football brain to read the game.
What I thought was telling is this, the commentators made a big thing out of Suarez being able to read the game and get in goal scoring opportunities, ok a lot of the time he's caught off side, but sometimes he's not. Were our players every caught off side, don't think there was many times, and that shows we lack the attack, and the football brain to read the game.
Originally Posted by santa fe:
“England have some skillful, energetic players, but they lack intelligence.. They don't have the ability to think about what is happening around them. They pass into areas where they are gifting the opposition the ball. They don't spot the runs of either their own or opposition's players. In short, they are just not intelligent enough ... or to put that another way, they are thick.”
“England have some skillful, energetic players, but they lack intelligence.. They don't have the ability to think about what is happening around them. They pass into areas where they are gifting the opposition the ball. They don't spot the runs of either their own or opposition's players. In short, they are just not intelligent enough ... or to put that another way, they are thick.”
May be we have fewer complete footballers than other top nations. Players like Welbeck and Johnson don't pass when they should and shoot when they shouldn't. I know most players are guilty of this to some extent but ours are very prone to this. The Italians and Uruguayans showed much better awareness. So did the Costa Ricans. I wouldn't be surprised if we came a cropper against them too. They play well in the western hemisphere as Scotland once found to their cost.
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“^^ Gerrard by screwing up the header, made a player who was off side, on side and allowed him a shooting chance. To be fair to Johnson he helped set up the England goal, but has been quite poor.”
“^^ Gerrard by screwing up the header, made a player who was off side, on side and allowed him a shooting chance. To be fair to Johnson he helped set up the England goal, but has been quite poor.”
Gerrard didn't 'screw up the header'. He went up for a 50-50, as happens a hundred times per game. The defenders should have been much deeper than they were, Suarez isn't invisible.
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“Gerrard didn't 'screw up the header'. He went up for a 50-50, as happens a hundred times per game. The defenders should have been much deeper than they were, Suarez isn't invisible.”
“Gerrard didn't 'screw up the header'. He went up for a 50-50, as happens a hundred times per game. The defenders should have been much deeper than they were, Suarez isn't invisible.”
I think that's where we missed someone like John Terry. I'm sure he would have spotted Suarez and dropped back to watch him.
^^ true, but what ever way you put it, he screwed it up, it's about time we stopped making excuses for players, England just aren't very good. Previous tournaments it's been this player or that players been injured, the team are tired after a long PL and Euro campaign etc etc. This time we have no excuses, no injuries to speak of, no long Euro campaigns, most players have had at least 4 weeks before playing a match.
Can someone tell me how the Ox who had a slight injury 2 weeks ago, is still not fit, but a player that had surgery 4 weeks ago, can run us ragged for 70 odd minutes.
We need to go back to grass roots. People keep saying the PL is the best league in the world, so why do we usually under perform. I personally think the FA needs to encourage teams to play more domestic players. We need to stop worrying about buying in foreign players to help domestic teams compete on the European scene, and start getting English players through.
Perhaps the FA can offer incentives to clubs to play domestic players, so they won't loose the money from European games. Say if a team fields less than 4 foreign players that team will get 20 million etc.
Its very telling that the PL has provided the most players at this tournament, yet our own team is performing well below par.
Can someone tell me how the Ox who had a slight injury 2 weeks ago, is still not fit, but a player that had surgery 4 weeks ago, can run us ragged for 70 odd minutes.
We need to go back to grass roots. People keep saying the PL is the best league in the world, so why do we usually under perform. I personally think the FA needs to encourage teams to play more domestic players. We need to stop worrying about buying in foreign players to help domestic teams compete on the European scene, and start getting English players through.
Perhaps the FA can offer incentives to clubs to play domestic players, so they won't loose the money from European games. Say if a team fields less than 4 foreign players that team will get 20 million etc.
Its very telling that the PL has provided the most players at this tournament, yet our own team is performing well below par.
We'd probably have to restrict foreign ownership of Premier League teams though and that would restrict the money flowing into the game.
I'm not really one for scape-goating, but I thought Jagielka's been at fault for three of the four goals we've conceded.
Rooney and Sturridge did ok last night, both put in a lot of effort; Sterling and Wellbeck didn't seem to like their positions as much, but the truth is we're just not that great at breaking down well organised defences.
Rooney and Sturridge did ok last night, both put in a lot of effort; Sterling and Wellbeck didn't seem to like their positions as much, but the truth is we're just not that great at breaking down well organised defences.
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“^^ true, but what ever way you put it, he screwed it up, it's about time we stopped making excuses for players, England just aren't very good. Previous tournaments it's been this player or that players been injured, the team are tired after a long PL and Euro campaign etc etc. This time we have no excuses, no injuries to speak of, no long Euro campaigns, most players have had at least 4 weeks before playing a match.
Can someone tell me how the Ox who had a slight injury 2 weeks ago, is still not fit, but a player that had surgery 4 weeks ago, can run us ragged for 70 odd minutes.
We need to go back to grass roots. People keep saying the PL is the best league in the world, so why do we usually under perform. I personally think the FA needs to encourage teams to play more domestic players. We need to stop worrying about buying in foreign players to help domestic teams compete on the European scene, and start getting English players through.
Perhaps the FA can offer incentives to clubs to play domestic players, so they won't loose the money from European games. Say if a team fields less than 4 foreign players that team will get 20 million etc.
Its very telling that the PL has provided the most players at this tournament, yet our own team is performing well below par.”
“^^ true, but what ever way you put it, he screwed it up, it's about time we stopped making excuses for players, England just aren't very good. Previous tournaments it's been this player or that players been injured, the team are tired after a long PL and Euro campaign etc etc. This time we have no excuses, no injuries to speak of, no long Euro campaigns, most players have had at least 4 weeks before playing a match.
Can someone tell me how the Ox who had a slight injury 2 weeks ago, is still not fit, but a player that had surgery 4 weeks ago, can run us ragged for 70 odd minutes.
We need to go back to grass roots. People keep saying the PL is the best league in the world, so why do we usually under perform. I personally think the FA needs to encourage teams to play more domestic players. We need to stop worrying about buying in foreign players to help domestic teams compete on the European scene, and start getting English players through.
Perhaps the FA can offer incentives to clubs to play domestic players, so they won't loose the money from European games. Say if a team fields less than 4 foreign players that team will get 20 million etc.
Its very telling that the PL has provided the most players at this tournament, yet our own team is performing well below par.”
I have to say, I disagree with pretty much everything in this post, but especially the last line.
How have England performed 'well below par'? They've narrowly lost to two teams that I would expect to beat us 8 times out of 10. Either game could have realistically gone either way.
I said before the tournament that England would do well to get out of the group, and I'd say that the team has performed to the expected level. We just don't have the players, especially at the back.
As ever, with England, there is far too much hyperbole and expectation attached to them.
Originally Posted by Mandark:
“We'd probably have to restrict foreign ownership of Premier League teams though and that would restrict the money flowing into the game.”
“We'd probably have to restrict foreign ownership of Premier League teams though and that would restrict the money flowing into the game.”
Would that be a bad thing though, we need to invest in English Players, not develop players fior other countries.
For one, I don't care about How we are seen across the World, we coped for enough years out of Europe, we would soon get used to it
Originally Posted by Mandark:
“We'd probably have to restrict foreign ownership of Premier League teams though and that would restrict the money flowing into the game.”
“We'd probably have to restrict foreign ownership of Premier League teams though and that would restrict the money flowing into the game.”
Would that really be a bad thing long term. We were beaten by a team with a population less than London!!
IMHO I think too much pressure is put on our domestic teams to do well in their competitions, so the manager has no choice but to buy in expensive foreign players, instead of perhaps thinking, "well I do know of a good young English player, but he's not risking on, incase he doesn't perform".
I think we really have to forget European competitions, Domestic titles etc for at least 10 years and encourage teams to bring on fresh young talent.
That this has really been his first poor one?
Apart from 2010 when they were all crap.
(And I'm neutral)
Apart from 2010 when they were all crap.
(And I'm neutral)
Originally Posted by Jim De Ville:
“I have to say, I disagree with pretty much everything in this post, but especially the last line.
How have England performed 'well below par'? They've narrowly lost to two teams that I would expect to beat us 8 times out of 10. Either game could have realistically gone either way.
I said before the tournament that England would do well to get out of the group, and I'd say that the team has performed to the expected level. We just don't have the players, especially at the back.
As ever, with England, there is far too much hyperbole and expectation attached to them.”
“I have to say, I disagree with pretty much everything in this post, but especially the last line.
How have England performed 'well below par'? They've narrowly lost to two teams that I would expect to beat us 8 times out of 10. Either game could have realistically gone either way.
I said before the tournament that England would do well to get out of the group, and I'd say that the team has performed to the expected level. We just don't have the players, especially at the back.
As ever, with England, there is far too much hyperbole and expectation attached to them.”
Again making excuses, we have to beat the top teams to win tournaments, go tell Chile that they can't beat top 10 teams or Holland or France.
And not sure how you can disagree with all I said, is it not true this tournament we have probably the least tired and least injured squad we've had in years. Is it not true that one player who had surgery 4 weeks ago run around us, yet a player who had a slight knock, hasn't played. And isn't true that the PL is often touted as the best league in the world and has supplied the most players to his world cup. Thats fact not opinion.
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