Am no fan of either off pitch , but if somebody can tell me there is a better left back and central defender in England right now , I love them to say who they are
Cole wouldn't have let the cross get over with baines did v Italy for their winner
And terry wouldn't have given saruez time space to plant the header
And we would still. Be in world cup without having to rely on the most bizzare set of results in world cup group history

We never won anything with those two in the side at their peak.

I don't see how having them there this time would have made such a big difference.

Big game experience , winners as well even if they only came off bench might helped
A defence & a inexperienced keepwr in a major tournament
We all know hart is no seaman but inexperienced defenders in front of him doesn't help

I'm not saying that they wouldn't have improved the defence, maybe they would have, who knows?

I'm just saying that ultimately it would have made no difference.

We seemed to have taken players to this WC and previous tournaments who basically we have no intention of playing Lampard, Milner etc. Against Honduras he bought on 2 subs, who are in our under 21's (sorry can't remember the names), and were training with the squad to gain experience, what the hell was that about, why bring them on, when they aren't even going to the WC.

exactly

they've not been good enough for 10 years........have they suddenly improved now they're old and had lots of injuries ?

same goes for Lampard, Gerrard.......and probably Rooney as well

We should have had a clean sweep after South Africa expect for maybe Rooney. That's when that generation proved they weren't good enough

I definitely think that Terry and Cole should have been there. Was Roy's biggest mistake.

I don't like either very much off the pitch, but they are still great on it.

Two Champion League winners, would have meant three of the back four were regularly playing together.

Was England's awful back four that let them down

What was Hodgson thinking last night Jesus we got the goal why an earth didnt he bring Lampard on and settle for the draw. There was always a risk with us going forward that big eared suarez would pounce on a loose ball and score. Im sorry England blew that last night big time we would have probably got a win against Cost Rica too. I cant help but feel if John Terry and Ashley Cole would have been in that back four we would not have lost that game. Also why Take luke shaw there if your not gonna play him what is the point of that just play the lad against Cost Rica so it wasnt a complete waste of time. And a final Rant Gerrard to step down as Captain and take Hodgson with him.

I don't know why people keep bringing up John Terry. The man retired from International Football 2 years ago. Hodgson isn't exactly gonna get on his hands and knees and beg him to come out of retirement.

Ashley Cole has far more pace and strength than Baines and Terry has a far more defensive brain and physicality than Jagielka and Cahill.

Never-the-less, England were crap at making chances and all we do is blame Wayne Rooney. lol

But when they were at their peaks our problems were not in defence!
Terry is still the best English central defender and by some distance!
Cole has lost a yard of pace but is still in a different class to Baines, who was picked just because of a few good free kicks and Cole not playing a lot for Chelsea.

Agree there Dixon totally in fact spot on

They never made any difference in the last world cup when we got a complete drubbing by germany

Yep I'm one of those who think we should have gone to WC with "the Chelsea defence" of Terry, Cole and Cahill - probably with Jagielka. Baines not good enough, Glen Johnson well outclassed. Our other Prem players know the Chelsea back line are hard to break down and putting the old men behind the high speed youngsters up front and on wings would have given the newbies confidence.
Still leaves the midfield problem - neither Gerrard nor Lampard were defensive midfielders. We really lack someone who breaks up the play of the opposition.

Those incidents may've not occurred but others would've transpired to ensure we lost the match/s. As we weren't favourites, regardless. Also, as has been said, England's progress in the past with them in the team, hasn't been great overall. So I think you're overreacting. Baines & Cahil are adequate players for England.

I agree. The Chelsea player left behind should have been Lampard. He's done a reasonable job for Chelsea playing a deeper role, but England should have specialists in those positions. Cole is still the best Engilsh LB in the country, and Terry/Cahill are the best English centre back pairing.
But I doubt it would have made an enormous difference to be honest. Saying they're the best doesn't make them world class. They might have been once, but not any more.
In fact, if you go back to 2006,, we had a back four of Neville, Ferdinand, Terry and Cole..all at their best. We had a genuine holding player in Hargreaves, a choice from Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard and Joe Cole in midfield. Michael Owen and a young Wayne Rooney up front. On paper that looks like a team of world beaters, but it wasn't to be.

Dumbest move of all time not taking those two would have emerged with at least two draws had they been in the side (even with just Terry). Cole has aged but his performance against Athletico in the first Champions League leg showed that he's still got it. I've been banging on about this ad nauseum to my mates for ages - now they finally agree with me.

Massive mistake and the blame lies squarely at Hodgson's feet.

Let's not rewrite history -- Terry wasn't great in 2010.

That said, he would still walk into the England defence. It's really abject when you compare the options eight years ago.

Jagielka got beaten by an up and under against Germany, not remotely world class. Our thrashing against Germany came about because we were pushing forward and got hit on the break.

Terry was one of the best defenders in the PL last year - plus he had a partnership with Cahill, truly silly move not having those two together in there.

Cahill is adequate, and I like him as a player. But would he have been a first choice for England in the past ? He's done well to force himself into the Chelsea team, but that's mainly because Ivanovic has established himself at RB and David Luiz made so many errors.
It's the weakest England have been at the back for a long time, probably more noticeable because it's usually been one of our strengths.

Terry & Cole's defending at the last world cup was horrendous.

Let's not start pretending they would've saved us, they wouldn't.

It's a no brainer, the Chelsea defence should have started.

However,I still feel that the lack of any midfield whatsoever and moving Sturridge onto the wing to accommodate Rooney up top were bigger mistakes.

I also think that FA messed up big time by not insisting that England wear an all-blue kit.

And why they went for Vauxhall as their main sponsor, when Samsung would surely have been interested, is beyond me.

The midfield got totally done over against Germany and afforded the defence zero protection. Plus one bad result doesn't instantly make two of the finest English defenders of recent years shite.