In which case, I will treat your anecdotes with the appropriate amount of scepticism.

Feel free, but one amateur individuals opinion against the professional experience of many thousands of service engineers doesn't hold much value.

And just as soon as this esteemed group of people deign to publish their secret data (why is it secret, by the way?), I'll be sure to defer to their expertise!

Do you publish all your companies internal and private data?, and I don't see how you could trust any data I provided you seeing as you won't trust my word? - how would providing you the same information in writing make any difference?.

But the fact remains, you are one private individual, with no knowledge at all of the trade, who thinks he knows better than the entire TV trade worldwide?.

Well, we know that you sell and promote Sony kit, so it is conceivable that you once had access to reliability data that Sony gathered and would prefer to keep secret. Though why they would want to keep secret something that apparently shows them to be streets ahead of everyone else is a bit of a mystery. But why would you also have access to Samsung's "internal and private" data, which you would surely need in order to be able make your "five to ten times less reliable"claim?

Or perhaps these are numbers that come from third party repairers. But why would that data be a secret? Perhaps they want to drum up business by ensuring that people continue to buy unreliable kit? Warranty providers? Surely not - they'd sell more warranties, because the kit you say is "five to ten times less reliable" sells in far greater numbers. Can't see how it's in their interests.


It wouldn't be "the same information in writing". It would be actual numbers, susceptible to statistical analysis. Not vague, unsubstantiated claims like "five to ten times less reliable". See the difference?


I haven't given my assessment of the relative reliability of different brands, because I don't have the data. But you are never slow in offering yours, and now you are even claiming to speak on behalf of the "entire TV trade worldwide"!

When were you elected spokesman?

I'd try to sell the Currys voucher - probably get about £450 for it on ebay, and use that cash to buy from anywhere BUT Currys!

eg Richer Sounds etc.

I'm a representative member of the TV service trade, and am perfectly free to post what I KNOW is the understanding of the vast majority (if not all?) of the TV service trade worldwide. I'm a member of a worldwide user group, with thousands of members, all of which share the same viewpoint based on their (and mine) vast experience of TV faults.

As you say - You have no evidence - So to continue the constant rubbishing of Samsung's current TV's seems a bit pointless.

I second this

OK, what about this one?:
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-dvd-...94677-pdt.html

And here's a review:
http://www.avforums.com/review/panas...V-review.10436

I have to admit that I don't understand some of the technical terminology, but that review sounds pretty good.

The only thing, though, it doesn't appear to have an optical slot so I can plug my soundbar into. I use the optical slot because it's easier to plug the soundbar into one connection, and let the TV handle the audio side of things from each device (Sky box, Blu-ray etc.)

It mentions 'Digital Audio Out', though, so what is that exactly?

Ta.

It has to be either a coax output or an optical output. I've just checked, and it's optical.

Has the PVA screen Tech improved? I have previously bought Sony and Samsung with PVA Tech and they were both very poor incomparision to the IPS Tech inside the LG and Panasonics.

Also my friend worked for D&G - and I wouldnt buy an extended warranty off them.....;

I would have thought that, given you sell Sony/Panasonic TVs and they're more expensive than the 'lesser' brands, that you'd be more than happy to show evidence of better reliability of these sets to potential customers?


Capacitors aren't the problem they're made out to be anyway. The ones that go are usually low-rated, and therefore cheap (sub-£1 each for Nichicon/Panasonic high ripple current/low ESR). Easy money for the repair guys (and I've seen more than one set 'repaired' by local shops with the cheapest Chinese caps available -- these work, and will see out the three month warranty, but it's not a great advertisement for the trade).

As for general reliability, my Cello-built M&S £190 40" LCD is still going strong after two years, still with image quality in many respects better than the Panasonic 50" IPS downstairs.

Again, it's not my place to put private data in the public domain - EVERYONE in the trade (of any competence at all) is fully aware of the relative reliability of the major makes.


Interesting idea, the largest problem (by a huge margin) in domestic electronics in the last 20+ years isn't "as big a problem as it's made out to be"

Certainly it's good for service revenue though


Interesting claim, and obviously one cheap Chinese set lasting two years isn't statistically significant Certainly none of the Cello sets I've seen have particularity good picture quality, just the same as any other cheap Chinese import (they aren't 'made' by Cello - although perhaps they screw the Chinese boards in the cabinets?)

Yes, of course they are. And they all discuss it at their secret Stonecutters meetings. But the actual numbers are never to be revealed in public (on pain of some awful sanction), except that members are allowed to hint vaguely at what they might be in Internet forums.

The panels are pretty generic across many brands, and if you feed a set an HDMI signal there really isn't much for the set to do -- it's effectively just a monitor in this state.

The specific panel in this specific Cello-built set (note I did not say 'made') has certain aspects which make it superior to that in the Panasonic in my view: namely (a) contrast is better on the Cello and blacks are near-black even in the dark (something I have not been able to achieve on the Panasonic no matter how hard I try), and (b) the backlight brightness is much more consistent on the Cello's panel than the Panasonic's.

Regarding statistical significance, I would agree with you and my comment was merely intended to relay the fact that most sets, by any manufacturer will last for some years without failing -- the failure rates I have seen are in the order of a few percent across the board; any higher and even the supermarkets would stop selling them. Even the bad sets are only dipping into the 15-25% failure rate bracket, which is bad but it still does mean that most consumers will be satisfied.

As for the capacitors; they're cheap, they're a common fail point, they're well understood and anyone with a modicum of electronics knowledge can diagnose and fix in the event of a failure. As I said, no big deal.


Strange then that I never get quite the same answer from any two repair agents.

That's not unusual though; ask 10 car mechanics what the most reliable car manufacturer is, and you'll get 6 or 7 different responses. Most will say 'Ford', but when you drill down you find that what they really mean is that Fords are the easiest to order parts from the local factors for -- that's not the same thing at all.

It looks a cracker

I think it's a VERY big deal, when manufacturers (and particularly a MAJOR manufacturer like Samsung) deliberately fit sub-standard parts knowing they will have a very short live span.

Interestingly, the Thomson Sky HD boxes, who's power supply's were made by Samsung use the same crappy capacitors - and measuring the internal temperature of the set, and consulting the manufacturers datasheet for the capacitors - gives a life time of only 11 months


So what type of 'repair agents' have you asked?, and what have they actually said?.

I know a couple of local independent repair guys (own their own companies).

One said that Sony have sunk like a stone over the last few years (he used to rate them), and to just buy Samsung or LG as they are cheaper, the other was singing the praises of the more expensive Toshiba sets (doesn't like the "Eastern European crap" -- I assume he means UMC -- on the cheaper stuff), and advised to avoid LG because they're "often less reliable than the imported stuff". Both did acknowledge that Sony/Panasonic were safe bets but didn't think things are as clear-cut as you seem to.

The one common thread is a general complaint of none of the manufacturers releasing enough service data, and difficulty in acquiring (new) parts for anything over 2 or 3 years old.