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Europe Might Lose Qualifying Positions For Next World Cups ?


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Old 24-06-2014, 20:24
DangerBrother
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So, after, Suarez and co go through, it is looking like the only European teams getting out of the group stage will be Holland, France, Germany and Belgium, with maybe the Swiss, and highly unlikely, the Greeks.

That's as huge drop on normal, and may well lead to changes in future qualifying positions for future World Cups.
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:27
celesti
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Europe is too rich and powerful for that to happen really.
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:32
snukr
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Not if 3 or 4 of them reach the semi finals. It would take more than one bad World Cup for them to change it anyway.
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:33
g0ldenballs
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Blatter (who else) wanted to take spots from Europe and give them to Africa and Asia. Platini suggested increasing the tournament to 40 teams with 8 groups of 5.
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:35
Sabre92
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The drop in European teams going through can be put down purely to the tournament being in South America. If this World Cup had been in Europe it'd be a different story.
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:37
Jason C
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If any confederation deserves to have World Cup places taken away from them, it should be Africa.

(And if any confederation deserves to have World Cup places added, it should be CONCACAF, whose teams - with the exception of Honduras - have performed brilliantly in Brazil.)
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Old 24-06-2014, 20:54
nevada
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Location, location, location.
I've no doubt that CONCACAF and South America will not be performing this well in Russia.
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Old 24-06-2014, 22:12
ShaunIOW
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If any confederation deserves to have World Cup places taken away from them, it should be Africa.

(And if any confederation deserves to have World Cup places added, it should be CONCACAF, whose teams - with the exception of Honduras - have performed brilliantly in Brazil.)
If any continent should lose places its South America as they only have 10 countries in their qualifying group and get 5 or 6 places so 50-60% of the continent. Perhaps South America and CONCACAF should be combined as one qualifying area seeing as quite a few CONCACAF countries should be in the South America group anyway.
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Old 24-06-2014, 23:17
Jim_McIntosh
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If any continent should lose places its South America as they only have 10 countries in their qualifying group and get 5 or 6 places so 50-60% of the continent. Perhaps South America and CONCACAF should be combined as one qualifying area seeing as quite a few CONCACAF countries should be in the South America group anyway.
Suriname and Guyana only I think(*). And we already have Israel playing in Europe and Australia playing in Asia so it's not the only geographical discrepancy.

(* Edit - French Guyana too.)
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Old 24-06-2014, 23:45
snukr
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Suriname and Guyana only I think(*). And we already have Israel playing in Europe and Australia playing in Asia so it's not the only geographical discrepancy.

(* Edit - French Guyana too.)
Trinidad and Tobago should play in South America also.
Israel play in Europe for political reasons, they "qualified" for the 1970 World Cup without playing a game after all of the other sides in the Asian confederation refused to play them.
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Old 24-06-2014, 23:47
Jim_McIntosh
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Trinidad and Tobago should play in South America also.
Israel play in Europe for political reasons, they "qualified" for the 1970 World Cup without playing a game after all of the other sides in the Asian confederation refused to play them.
I've always seen Trinidad and Tobago as being considered part of the Caribbean. Why should they play in South America? What source considers them part of South America?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._South_America
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Old 25-06-2014, 00:55
Jim_McIntosh
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I've always seen Trinidad and Tobago as being considered part of the Caribbean. Why should they play in South America? What source considers them part of South America?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._South_America
There are lots of instances where FIFA's rules don't exactly match up with geographic convention. The home nations, Faroes, Guyana, Suriname, Fr Guyana, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Australia, Israel, a bunch of Caribbean islands which aren't independent autonomous countries.

Sorry - meant to edit and not quote.
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Old 25-06-2014, 09:17
snukr
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I've always seen Trinidad and Tobago as being considered part of the Caribbean. Why should they play in South America? What source considers them part of South America?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._South_America
It's just 11 kilometres from the South American mainland and should be considered part of that continent in the same way the UK and other islands are considered part of Europe.
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Old 25-06-2014, 09:18
snukr
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There are lots of instances where FIFA's rules don't exactly match up with geographic convention. The home nations, Faroes, Guyana, Suriname, Fr Guyana, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Australia, Israel, a bunch of Caribbean islands which aren't independent autonomous countries.

Sorry - meant to edit and not quote.
A small part of Kazakhstan is in Europe making it eligible to join UEFA and Azerbaijan is regarded as being in Europe.
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Old 25-06-2014, 11:18
mattlamb
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There are lots of instances where FIFA's rules don't exactly match up with geographic convention. The home nations, Faroes, Guyana, Suriname, Fr Guyana, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Australia, Israel, a bunch of Caribbean islands which aren't independent autonomous countries.

Sorry - meant to edit and not quote.
Add to that list - England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
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Old 25-06-2014, 16:54
degsyhufc
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Add to that list - England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
They're in the list as home nations.
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Old 25-06-2014, 19:41
Jim_McIntosh
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It's just 11 kilometres from the South American mainland and should be considered part of that continent in the same way the UK and other islands are considered part of Europe.
11km away from somewhere doesn't mean you are part of that continent. If everywhere close to a continent was considered part of that continent than we could say Alaska is in Asia and Gibraltar is in Africa. UK and Ireland aren't anywhere near any other continent so are obviously considered as part of Europe. Trinidad and Tobago are in the Caribbean even if they are the most southerly and close to South America (and Trinidad or Tobago - I forget which - were originally joined onto the South American landmass before continental drift changed that.)
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:00
Jim_McIntosh
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A small part of Kazakhstan is in Europe making it eligible to join UEFA and Azerbaijan is regarded as being in Europe.
They are both transcontinental really, as are Russia, Turkey, and lots of other countries in which case the country really should be considered part of the continent in which most of it's land lies.

Kazakhstan is considered part of Central Asia (about 90% of it is in Asia) but is a huge country that ranges from the Caspian Sea to the same latitude (or longitude - I forget which is which) as India. If I were making the rules then it would be an Asian country as that's where 90% of it's landmass is but FIFA don't seem to bother that much about geographical details like that.

Azerbaijan is considered part of Western Asia although it has a small portion in Europe north of the Caucasus mountains.

Strange how the European border with Asia shifts eastwards over time. When I was a kid everywhere east of Turkey and Ukraine was Asia.
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:20
snukr
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They are both transcontinental really, as are Russia, Turkey, and lots of other countries in which case the country really should be considered part of the continent in which most of it's land lies.

Kazakhstan is considered part of Central Asia (about 90% of it is in Asia) but is a huge country that ranges from the Caspian Sea to the same latitude (or longitude - I forget which is which) as India. If I were making the rules then it would be an Asian country as that's where 90% of it's landmass is but FIFA don't seem to bother that much about geographical details like that.

Azerbaijan is considered part of Western Asia although it has a small portion in Europe north of the Caucasus mountains.

Strange how the European border with Asia shifts eastwards over time. When I was a kid everywhere east of Turkey and Ukraine was Asia.
It's UEFA which decides which countries can join it, not FIFA.
Cyprus should be in Asia really, it's only in UEFA because of it's close links with Greece.
The Urals is regarded as being the dividing line between Europe and Asia.
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:27
Jim_McIntosh
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It's UEFA which decides which countries can join it, not FIFA.
Cyprus should be in Asia really, it's only in UEFA because of it's close links with Greece.
The Urals is regarded as being the dividing line between Europe and Asia.
So FIFA have nothing to do with it? Do UEFA decide which association Guyana should be in?

FIFA as governing body of the game should be taking it upon themselves to divide countries into associations based on geography rather than allowing individual associations to accept members that are outside their boundaries - that was my point. Australia in Asia, Guyana in CONCACAF, Israel in Europe (ok, there are political reasons for that), Armenia in Europe....it's all a bit silly really. They are moving towards geography not being considered when placing nations in qualifying. Maybe France should apply to play in North America since they have some overseas dependencies in the Caribbean? It's slightly ridiculous, all in all.
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:28
snukr
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11km away from somewhere doesn't mean you are part of that continent. If everywhere close to a continent was considered part of that continent than we could say Alaska is in Asia and Gibraltar is in Africa. UK and Ireland aren't anywhere near any other continent so are obviously considered as part of Europe. Trinidad and Tobago are in the Caribbean even if they are the most southerly and close to South America (and Trinidad or Tobago - I forget which - were originally joined onto the South American landmass before continental drift changed that.)
Whether it's part of South America or not I don't see any reason for them not to join it, surely playing Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay etc on a regular basis would be better for them than playing the likes of Barbados and Panama, even If it did mean they'd never qualify for a World Cup.
An interesting one would be if Greenland were ever allowed to join FIFA, being part of Denmark would it be in UEFA or CONCACAF which it is much closer to.
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:32
Jim_McIntosh
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Whether it's part of South America or not I don't see any reason for them not to join it, surely playing Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay etc on a regular basis would be better for them than playing the likes of Barbados and Panama, even If it did mean they'd never qualify for a World Cup.
An interesting one would be if Greenland were ever allowed to join FIFA, being part of Denmark would it be in UEFA or CONCACAF which it is much closer to.
I disagree. Not being part of a continent sounds like a great reason not to allow a nation to play in that continent's qualifying. Actually, it sounds like the best reason anyone could ever give. Maybe Ireland would like to play in the Oceania qualifying for easier qualification or even South America for good competition? If the fact that they aren't part of that continent isn't a hindrance to them joining then you have to ask what rules actually stand?

This doesn't even scratch the surface on geographical anomalies either. How about all the countries who aren't even actually countries? That's a weird one as well.

Basically FIFA makes it up as goes along.
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:38
snukr
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So FIFA have nothing to do with it? Do UEFA decide which association Guyana should be in?

FIFA as governing body of the game should be taking it upon themselves to divide countries into associations based on geography rather than allowing individual associations to accept members that are outside their boundaries - that was my point. Australia in Asia, Guyana in CONCACAF, Israel in Europe (ok, there are political reasons for that), Armenia in Europe....it's all a bit silly really. They are moving towards geography not being considered when placing nations in qualifying. Maybe France should apply to play in North America since they have some overseas dependencies in the Caribbean? It's slightly ridiculous, all in all.
Of course not CONCACAF decide that.
In order to play in the Asian World Cup qualifiers Australia had to join the Asian Confederation, which also means they are eligible to play in the Asian Cup which next year will be hosted by Australia! Crazy, but Australia wanted an easier route to the World Cup. I think it would be better if they split Asia into East and West with the Oceania teams playing in the East Asia qualifiers.
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Old 25-06-2014, 20:44
snukr
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I disagree. Not being part of a continent sounds like a great reason not to allow a nation to play in that continent's qualifying. Actually, it sounds like the best reason anyone could ever give. Maybe Ireland would like to play in the Oceania qualifying for easier qualification or even South America for good competition? If the fact that they aren't part of that continent isn't a hindrance to them joining then you have to ask what rules actually stand?

This doesn't even scratch the surface on geographical anomalies either. How about all the countries who aren't even actually countries? That's a weird one as well.

Basically FIFA makes it up as goes along.
Obviously teams which are thousands of miles away shouldn't be allowed to join other continents, but there may be a case for some nearby countries joining other continents in exceptional circumstances.
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Old 25-06-2014, 21:02
Jim_McIntosh
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Of course not CONCACAF decide that.
In order to play in the Asian World Cup qualifiers Australia had to join the Asian Confederation, which also means they are eligible to play in the Asian Cup which next year will be hosted by Australia! Crazy, but Australia wanted an easier route to the World Cup. I think it would be better if they split Asia into East and West with the Oceania teams playing in the East Asia qualifiers.
FIFA can veto anything CONCACAF decide as the governing body for the game.

I think the Asia and Oceania sections will merge in the near future.
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