English players don`t care enough. Never have, never will.
The Reason England did so poorly
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Greg Dyke has his finger on the button, though. As he said at the start of last season, the reason for England's constant failure over 30 years is because Sunderland bought a few foreign players last July. Very insightful Mr Dyke, the game is in safe hands.
Blaming the existence of the PL is too simplistic.
How do you explain England's lack of success between 1966 & 1992 then?
How do you explain England's lack of success between 1966 & 1992 then?
Originally Posted by Dub2:
“English players don`t care enough. Never have, never will.”
“English players don`t care enough. Never have, never will.”
I don't think not caring enough is the problem. For instance, England busted a gut against Italy over 120 minutes in the Euro 2012 quarter final for example, but weren't good enough in the penalty shootout. Do you think that was due to not caring enough?
I don't buy this "England don't care" nonsense.
Yeah they might have looked tired, but it's furnace conditions over there and all the players have long seasons. It must play a part.
Yeah they might have looked tired, but it's furnace conditions over there and all the players have long seasons. It must play a part.
^^ But the weather hasn't been a problem, it was far hotter in Miami. Only the first game was it very hot, still cooler than Miami, and we probably played our best football. And the players had at least 4 weeks of basically rest before the WC so should be well rested. None of our players played in the CL final so even that can't be used as an excuse.
And I don't get this long season, they play for 90 mins a week, with a few games added in over the year. Rugby players play for 80 mins, play in a tournament once a year and have summer tours plus Autumn internationals, and the game is fair more demanding than football, and they don't complain about the long season.
And I don't get this long season, they play for 90 mins a week, with a few games added in over the year. Rugby players play for 80 mins, play in a tournament once a year and have summer tours plus Autumn internationals, and the game is fair more demanding than football, and they don't complain about the long season.
Reckon it's all the usual factors all mixed up together.
A few thoughts and although I put a list at the end, I would re-iterate the point that defining the factors / issues which need to be addressed is the easy job; putting together and implementing actions to address them is another matter;
http://www.goalsandwickets.co.uk/foo...sed-yet-again/
A few thoughts and although I put a list at the end, I would re-iterate the point that defining the factors / issues which need to be addressed is the easy job; putting together and implementing actions to address them is another matter;
http://www.goalsandwickets.co.uk/foo...sed-yet-again/
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“It's quite telling that some of the best teams have all featured players from either the lower PL teams like Norwich, Aston Villa etc and even Championship sides. Any player can be made to look good when surrounded by the best players in the world, but he really has to work when surrounded by average players, and thats where England are failing>”
“It's quite telling that some of the best teams have all featured players from either the lower PL teams like Norwich, Aston Villa etc and even Championship sides. Any player can be made to look good when surrounded by the best players in the world, but he really has to work when surrounded by average players, and thats where England are failing>”
Ben Foster was our best player yesterday.
Originally Posted by Serial Lurker:
“It's also telling that European clubs don't tend to appoint English managers either. It's a vicious circle - managers stick to what they know, and English managers will generally be more open to signing English players, but English managers don't get top jobs in this country, let alone anywhere else.”
“It's also telling that European clubs don't tend to appoint English managers either. It's a vicious circle - managers stick to what they know, and English managers will generally be more open to signing English players, but English managers don't get top jobs in this country, let alone anywhere else.”
Roy Hodgson is probably the most travelled English manager in history.
England's lack of success can be put down to a number of key factors:
- Lack of opportunities for youngsters - PL managers simply won't give youngsters the opportunities they need when they can turn to experienced, proven, players. There are some exceptions (most notably Southampton), but for the likes of Chelsea and Man City, why perservere with a raw 19-year-old when you can buy a ready made £30m superstar to fill that berth? It's a shame that the game is like it, but I can't see that changing.
- English players being overpriced - Some of the asking prices for English players are criminal. As good a player as someone like Adam Lallana is, if he was foreign and playing abroad he'd be worth £10m max, not the £30m that Southampton are asking. The issue with this ridiculous inflation of English players is not only does it put the big clubs off from buying them, but it also hurts the careers of those players who are then denied the chance to play at a level worthy of their talents and impedes their development.
- Reluctance of English players to go abroad - English players are on the whole, weak, lazy and too protected to test themselves by going abroad and into a new culture, despite the overwhelming evidence that suggests that doing so can do wonders in helping players to improve, and of those that do, most don't have the bottle for it and come back within a year. The fact that at least two English players (sorry, idiots) have turned down moves to Ajax and the chance to work under de Boer and Bergkamp in favour of playing in the Championship underlines that fact. What I don't get is, if given the choice of spending my career at a mid-table PL club, or a chance to play at a top side in France, Holland, Portugal etc. and win things, I'd go abroad any day of the week, so why won't English players do that? Baffling.
- Lack of opportunities for English managers - This is perhaps the most criminal of the lot, as there are a lot of genuinely talented English managers doing great jobs in the Championship, but seemingly the only way any of these guys can get a chance in the PL is by getting their team promoted. It tells you all you need to know when West Brom would rather give Pepe Mel a job than someone like Sherwood, and the likes of McClaren, Adkins, McDermott, Howe are either stuck at Championship clubs or out of work. This is an area that needs urgent attention, particularly now that the likes of Charlton, Brighton and Watford at Championship level deliberately appear to be bypassing British coaches to suit whatever agendas they have.
Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter what systems are in place. No-one country has ever, or probably will ever, enjoy the luxury of having the best football team in the world for an extended period of time. Sport runs in cycles, and sometimes someone will end up with a generation of better players than us. I'm not saying that there aren't significant areas of improvement needed, but that there isn't a set formula for winning the World Cup, otherwise we'd have cracked it already.
- Lack of opportunities for youngsters - PL managers simply won't give youngsters the opportunities they need when they can turn to experienced, proven, players. There are some exceptions (most notably Southampton), but for the likes of Chelsea and Man City, why perservere with a raw 19-year-old when you can buy a ready made £30m superstar to fill that berth? It's a shame that the game is like it, but I can't see that changing.
- English players being overpriced - Some of the asking prices for English players are criminal. As good a player as someone like Adam Lallana is, if he was foreign and playing abroad he'd be worth £10m max, not the £30m that Southampton are asking. The issue with this ridiculous inflation of English players is not only does it put the big clubs off from buying them, but it also hurts the careers of those players who are then denied the chance to play at a level worthy of their talents and impedes their development.
- Reluctance of English players to go abroad - English players are on the whole, weak, lazy and too protected to test themselves by going abroad and into a new culture, despite the overwhelming evidence that suggests that doing so can do wonders in helping players to improve, and of those that do, most don't have the bottle for it and come back within a year. The fact that at least two English players (sorry, idiots) have turned down moves to Ajax and the chance to work under de Boer and Bergkamp in favour of playing in the Championship underlines that fact. What I don't get is, if given the choice of spending my career at a mid-table PL club, or a chance to play at a top side in France, Holland, Portugal etc. and win things, I'd go abroad any day of the week, so why won't English players do that? Baffling.
- Lack of opportunities for English managers - This is perhaps the most criminal of the lot, as there are a lot of genuinely talented English managers doing great jobs in the Championship, but seemingly the only way any of these guys can get a chance in the PL is by getting their team promoted. It tells you all you need to know when West Brom would rather give Pepe Mel a job than someone like Sherwood, and the likes of McClaren, Adkins, McDermott, Howe are either stuck at Championship clubs or out of work. This is an area that needs urgent attention, particularly now that the likes of Charlton, Brighton and Watford at Championship level deliberately appear to be bypassing British coaches to suit whatever agendas they have.
Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter what systems are in place. No-one country has ever, or probably will ever, enjoy the luxury of having the best football team in the world for an extended period of time. Sport runs in cycles, and sometimes someone will end up with a generation of better players than us. I'm not saying that there aren't significant areas of improvement needed, but that there isn't a set formula for winning the World Cup, otherwise we'd have cracked it already.
Originally Posted by Sabre92:
“England's lack of success can be put down to a number of key factors:
- Lack of opportunities for youngsters - PL managers simply won't give youngsters the opportunities they need when they can turn to experienced, proven, players. There are some exceptions (most notably Southampton), but for the likes of Chelsea and Man City, why perservere with a raw 19-year-old when you can buy a ready made £30m superstar to fill that berth? It's a shame that the game is like it, but I can't see that changing.
.”
“England's lack of success can be put down to a number of key factors:
- Lack of opportunities for youngsters - PL managers simply won't give youngsters the opportunities they need when they can turn to experienced, proven, players. There are some exceptions (most notably Southampton), but for the likes of Chelsea and Man City, why perservere with a raw 19-year-old when you can buy a ready made £30m superstar to fill that berth? It's a shame that the game is like it, but I can't see that changing.
.”
To be fair, out of the current crop of young English players most of them do play for the top clubs.
Sterling & Henderson - Liverpool
Townsend - Spurs
Oxlade & Wiltshere - Arsenal
Barkley - Everton
but I get your message overall that teams should be giving more support to younger players.
Originally Posted by degsyhufc:
“To be fair, out of the current crop of young English players most of them do play for the top clubs.
Sterling & Henderson - Liverpool
Townsend - Spurs
Oxlade & Wiltshere - Arsenal
Barkley - Everton
but I get your message overall that teams should be giving more support to younger players.”
“To be fair, out of the current crop of young English players most of them do play for the top clubs.
Sterling & Henderson - Liverpool
Townsend - Spurs
Oxlade & Wiltshere - Arsenal
Barkley - Everton
but I get your message overall that teams should be giving more support to younger players.”
Generally speaking though it's 1-2 players at most, and with the likes of Chelsea and Man City none at all, and this is a problem throughout the league, not just at the top clubs, where given the prizes at stake you can understand why they are more hesitant to go for experience. With the exception of Southampton, how many other bottom half PL clubs have an emerging nucleus of at least 4-5 academy players who are breaking into the first team? As good as Southampton's youth system is, their philosophy is one that could, and probably should, be replicated throughout the bottom half of the league and the top half of the Championship, and yet it isn't (see the likes of Newcastle for that).
Another thing that I didn't mention in my first post is that a lot of spots in youth academies are now being taken by foreign players. Whilst it is good to see the likes of Januzaj burst onto the scene and impress, maybe it's time to ban foreigners from the youth academies and give those spots to young British players and allow them to stake their claim for a place in the first team (thinking maybe a blanket ban on signing any under-18 from abroad).
Originally Posted by Sabre92:
“
Another thing that I didn't mention in my first post is that a lot of spots in youth academies are now being taken by foreign players. Whilst it is good to see the likes of Januzaj burst onto the scene and impress, maybe it's time to ban foreigners from the youth academies and give those spots to young British players and allow them to stake their claim for a place in the first team (thinking maybe a blanket ban on signing any under-18 from abroad).”
“
Another thing that I didn't mention in my first post is that a lot of spots in youth academies are now being taken by foreign players. Whilst it is good to see the likes of Januzaj burst onto the scene and impress, maybe it's time to ban foreigners from the youth academies and give those spots to young British players and allow them to stake their claim for a place in the first team (thinking maybe a blanket ban on signing any under-18 from abroad).”
I've long suspected that a lot of spots also go to the sons of former footballers from the clubs, directors sons and "friends" of the clubs sons
Originally Posted by Sabre92:
“Generally speaking though it's 1-2 players at most, and with the likes of Chelsea and Man City none at all, and this is a problem throughout the league, not just at the top clubs, where given the prizes at stake you can understand why they are more hesitant to go for experience. With the exception of Southampton, how many other bottom half PL clubs have an emerging nucleus of at least 4-5 academy players who are breaking into the first team? As good as Southampton's youth system is, their philosophy is one that could, and probably should, be replicated throughout the bottom half of the league and the top half of the Championship, and yet it isn't (see the likes of Newcastle for that).
Another thing that I didn't mention in my first post is that a lot of spots in youth academies are now being taken by foreign players. Whilst it is good to see the likes of Januzaj burst onto the scene and impress, maybe it's time to ban foreigners from the youth academies and give those spots to young British players and allow them to stake their claim for a place in the first team (thinking maybe a blanket ban on signing any under-18 from abroad).”
“Generally speaking though it's 1-2 players at most, and with the likes of Chelsea and Man City none at all, and this is a problem throughout the league, not just at the top clubs, where given the prizes at stake you can understand why they are more hesitant to go for experience. With the exception of Southampton, how many other bottom half PL clubs have an emerging nucleus of at least 4-5 academy players who are breaking into the first team? As good as Southampton's youth system is, their philosophy is one that could, and probably should, be replicated throughout the bottom half of the league and the top half of the Championship, and yet it isn't (see the likes of Newcastle for that).
Another thing that I didn't mention in my first post is that a lot of spots in youth academies are now being taken by foreign players. Whilst it is good to see the likes of Januzaj burst onto the scene and impress, maybe it's time to ban foreigners from the youth academies and give those spots to young British players and allow them to stake their claim for a place in the first team (thinking maybe a blanket ban on signing any under-18 from abroad).”
The teams at the bottom are just scrambling to be oout of the relegation zone so buy in cheap foreign players and hope for the best.
I doubt they think much about the youth team although they should.
I was doing calculations earlier using the FIFA Pts system and England came 28th out of 32 teams!! And if Bosnia wins, which looks likely, they'll drop to 29th. The teams with a worse record are Bosnia, Honduras, Australia, and Cameroon, all on 0 pts.
England are on a mere 200 out of a maximum 2400.
England are on a mere 200 out of a maximum 2400.
Apparently not taking terry and cole had something to do with us not doing well. Yeah that's why we're out. Why people are saying it was a mistake not taking terry I don't know. He was asked and turned it down.
It's a shame they cannot link salaries paid to them by their clubs to the number of caps they have at international level.
The team's style of play is not very good at all and everyone focuses on either the manager or the individual players rather than the team dynamic. I think that's the main problem England have. Far too individualistic from the fans all the way through to the players.
I think people often over look the, what I consider, most straight forward answer. England are just not that good. We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.
You can care and love and desire winning all you want, if the other team is better, its simple. I know we would all like to believe in Rocky, but its just a film, raw courage has nothing on honed skills. I am not saying England are rubbish, we have a pretty decent team, but its not a world beater. Out of all the teams in the group stages, the actual poor ones are very few, it isn't the 60s anymore and most nations have some decent talent.
Its a bitter pill to swallow as those adverts really convince people England are going to win everything and be the best. I suspect every nation has a dabble in that type of thing, and only one can ever win it per cup.
You can care and love and desire winning all you want, if the other team is better, its simple. I know we would all like to believe in Rocky, but its just a film, raw courage has nothing on honed skills. I am not saying England are rubbish, we have a pretty decent team, but its not a world beater. Out of all the teams in the group stages, the actual poor ones are very few, it isn't the 60s anymore and most nations have some decent talent.
Its a bitter pill to swallow as those adverts really convince people England are going to win everything and be the best. I suspect every nation has a dabble in that type of thing, and only one can ever win it per cup.
Originally Posted by Tal'shiar:
“We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.
”
“We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.
”
Have you been hallucinating?
Originally Posted by Tal'shiar:
“I think people often over look the, what I consider, most straight forward answer. England are just not that good. We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.”
“I think people often over look the, what I consider, most straight forward answer. England are just not that good. We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.”
Semi's?? You mean got the semi skimmed milk out the fridge?
Originally Posted by Tal'shiar:
“Its a bitter pill to swallow as those adverts really convince people England are going to win everything and be the best. I suspect every nation has a dabble in that type of thing, and only one can ever win it per cup.”
“Its a bitter pill to swallow as those adverts really convince people England are going to win everything and be the best. I suspect every nation has a dabble in that type of thing, and only one can ever win it per cup.”
If people thought England were going to win everything and be the best, for this WC their would have been loads of England flags outside people's windows, cars, etc.. and the media on the hype train, but that wasn't the case like it was in 2002 and 2006.
We were poor before the EPL. Football sold its soul years ago. Its all about money and profit. Its so sad.
Originally Posted by Tal'shiar:
“I think people often over look the, what I consider, most straight forward answer. England are just not that good. We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.
You can care and love and desire winning all you want, if the other team is better, its simple. I know we would all like to believe in Rocky, but its just a film, raw courage has nothing on honed skills. I am not saying England are rubbish, we have a pretty decent team, but its not a world beater. Out of all the teams in the group stages, the actual poor ones are very few, it isn't the 60s anymore and most nations have some decent talent.”
“I think people often over look the, what I consider, most straight forward answer. England are just not that good. We got to the semis this time but more teams didnt make it than did.
You can care and love and desire winning all you want, if the other team is better, its simple. I know we would all like to believe in Rocky, but its just a film, raw courage has nothing on honed skills. I am not saying England are rubbish, we have a pretty decent team, but its not a world beater. Out of all the teams in the group stages, the actual poor ones are very few, it isn't the 60s anymore and most nations have some decent talent.”
All of this is gold (apart from the semis bit of course)
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