Now, I personally am convinced that all other Troughton-era stories are better than The Space Pirates. But it doesn't seem likely that all Who fans could be in agreement on anything. So if you disagree, please explain which story you think is worse and why.

Possibly Underwater Menace, I can't be sure without watching them properly but Underwater Menace seems more silly.

Nothing else comes close - not even The Dominators.

Evil of the Daleks episodes 1-5, the most boring episodes in the Troughton era by a large margin in my opinion . I still think you can't judge the Space Pirates properly unless they recover the lost episodes (and the same with Evil of the Daleks and other lost episodes) so I find this thread pointless.

Can't see any worse myself.

I did once think The Underwater Menace was the weakest Troughton story but after seeing the recovered episode and fitting that into the story as a whole, I think it has a lot more going for it than I originally thought.

It isn't far behind, though and The Macra Terror and The Dominators also give it a run for it's money in terms of worst Troughton story title but no, can't see any story worse than The Space Pirates.

The Space Pirates is what no TV should ever be - dull.
It's hard to judge it fully seeing as how 5/6 is missing, but the soundtrack is dull as ditchwater, the plot crawls along and few of the supporting characters are engaging.

The Underwater Menace is daft as a brush, the plot is beyond silly, the acting in places is atrocious, but it's still fun, and it does keep your attention, even if you are just wondering just how much sillier it can get.

The Dominators is also a rather dull story, but there's something that keeps me watching. I quite like the Quarks, rubbish robots though they are, I rather like the bickering of the Dominators themselves, surely the dopiest and most useless alien invaders ever, and I even like the premise of the story, the idea of a peaceful society being invaded. It's badly realised though, the cast don't seem to be terribly bothered, the effects aren't very special, and the whole thing seems rather amateur, but it's no worse than, say The Krotons, which is similarly slapdash in places. And by trimming an episode it isn't, crucially, as dull as The Space Pirates.

I've seen the extant episode which is very dull so never felt the urge to explore further via audio or telesnaps or whatever. If it's actually worse than The Dominators....that's not going to change! At least The Underwater Menace is quite funny.

(Obviously I'd watch if missing episodes were found...but sounds like it wouldn't get an 'Enemy of the World-type surge in popularity! Fully deserved in that instance.)

Oh well, it is pointless because after posting I actually remembered two things from last year about which substantially all fans agreed. An Adventure in Space and Time was good, and The Night of the Doctor was brilliant.

Based on the evidence we have available ...

I agree that Evil is terribly boring, but would defend eps 1 and 2. It's he Victorian stuff that's the worst: eps 3-6.

The Space Pirates is dull and I have no enthusiasm to hear the soundtrack CD again. I'd like to nominate The Highlanders: it's just awful, but everyone forgets that cos it's Frazer Hines's first story. At least The Underwater Menace is silly.

I never even bothered watching The Space Pirates reconstruction and there are a few other Troughton era reconstructions I haven't watched.
Of the ones I have seen, I found the Dominators painfully boring and The Krotons wasn't much better.
Season 5 is, IMO, one of Doctor Who's best. Out of that the only story I wasn't fussed on was Enemy of the World. That said, I watched it last year before they found the missing episodes so maybe I'll enjoy it more when I get round to watching it in full.

Very good point, I'd entirely forgotten about the Highlanders. I think most people do. Apart from it being Jamie's first story can anyone think of a single interesting feature of the Highlanders?

In fact, I'd argue that The Highlanders is possibly the most forgotten Doctor Who story.

There are others missing in their entirety from the Archives, but stories like The Macra Terror or The Myth Makers are far better remembered, and have many more memorable moments than The Highlanders, a story with, frankly, nothing of note (apart from the out of the blue Jamie-joins-the-TARDIS-crew bit right at the end) to distinguish it at all.

Half agree with you. Adventures in Space And Time, best bit of telly I've watched in Years. Name Of The Doctor....nowhere near that.


I like The Highlanders, but I agree it isn't the best of stories. However, it's still not as dull as The Space Pirates. At least in The Highlanders, The Doctor doesn't take 15 minutes to arrive in the first episode and I also find the more outlandish aspects of Troughton's Doctor, such as his disguises etc, amusing. Shame some of them were toned down soon afterwards. I like the humour in the story as well, something The Space Pirates, aside Milo Clancey was sadly lacking.

I think it's not just remembered for Frazer Hines debut but for being the only Historical in the Troughton Era and the last one until Season 19 so it probably has a reputation more than it deserves but as a story I like it better than The Dominators and The Underwater Menace that immediately followed.

And you know I disagree with you that Evil Of The Daleks is boring.....

You misread my comment, perhaps. I was referring to Night of the Doctor, the McGann mini-episode.


Only thing I would add to this is a shout-out to the hapless Algernon Ffinch, an enjoyable character when he is at the mercy of Polly and Kirsty, and who turns out to be all right in the end.

The Savages.



Solicitor Gray is a decent baddie. the Doctor cross-dresses. Polly gets summat to do. But, on the whole, it's terribly boring. I have only listened to the soundtrack CD once.

The Space Pirates has fun with Dom Issigri; there's boo-hiss Madeleine; I've only listened to it once and it does go on a bit, but it's no more boring and longwinded than, say, Colons in Space. It's another Six Parter Without Enough Story to Go Round, and is a bit boring because of that. Colons in Space. Invasion of Time. Mutants. I could go on ...

Yes, I did misread it, which in that case, I agree, it was one awesome mini-episode.

I agree about Ffinch, it's so funny and those scenes are very enjoyable.

I also like the scenes between The Doctor and Grey and Perkins, when he's deceiving them the whole time. That's why I don't think this story is boring at all, it's just so funny at times. It's never gonna be regarded as a classic but it is what it is.

I love The Highlanders and I couldn't care less that it is Jamie's first story. It's a great story for Ben and particularly Polly - my favourite Troughton era companions.

As for worse stories than Space Pirates - Dominators for me, maybe Menace and Tomb as well

Tomb, seriously?

I agree with CHJ.........

I loved Tomb of the Cybermen.

"What Troughton-era story is worse than The Space Pirates?"

-this, for a thread -seriously? I'm surprised you've got any responses!

I think it's too hard to properly judge with so many completely missing, or in the case of The Space Pirates, almost completely missing stories from the Second Doctor's era.

Having said that, from what I've seen of The Space Pirates, it would be hard to surpass in the "yawn-fest" stakes. The special effects look pretty good though & better than some space stories in the middle of the 70's in my view.

I don't see any problem with this thread. It's nice to indulge in some classic who chat and is far more interesting than discussing Matt Smith's haircut or what his Mum is doing on twitter.........

Have many or any of you actually seen the story in full? I mean, the actual episodes (pre-wiping), not re-cons or the soundtrack? Enemy of the World used to evoke similar reactions based on the episode we had, then we had all the episodes and it turned out to be a wonderful story.

I'm holding off judgment until I see it (hint hint Phil Morris, hint hint ).

Well, I've only seen the recon but I have to add that Enemy of the World was already one of my favourites based on the recon.

I too have only seen the recon but if you listen to the audio track on it's own compare to other audios like The Savages, The Abominable Snowmen, The Dalek Masterplan etc, it still comes across very poorly in contrast to those stories.

You also compare it to The Seeds Of Death which immediately preceded it. Even if you only listened to the audio on that story you would hear significant difference in the pacing of two stories. I believe if The Space Pirates was ever found it would still be a massive yawn fest watching it as well. Even the one surviving episode just crawls along so it gives you some idea how the rest of the story would be like visually.

I've said this in another thread recently, but the soundtracks give a great insight into the story, even if you can't see it. I know that Enemy would be pretty good based on the soundtrack, and the DVD proves that it is pretty good. Likewise, Evil bored the arse off me (I think it was an Evil thread, recently, where I outlined my manifesto on the subject) and Highlanders is awfully dull. Space Pirates I've only listened to once or twice ... maybe I'll have to dig it out for the next long car journey?

The chances are that we will never see five-sixths of The Space Pirates, so soundtrack (and recon) is the only way to get to grips with it. Likewise, Evil's soundtrack and telesnaps (and recon, but I never both with those) are the way forward.

Agree that the modelwork is superb in Space Pirates.