Well we've been told that her and John's marriage was going through a rough patch when she had a one night stand with James and we know she and John were having a very rough patch when she went with Cain.

Anyway, it's not Moira's fault the stupid idiot writers decided to retcon the whole story of their happy marriage just to suit a new sl.

Moira is an amateur in comparison to the Dingles

FIFY

Sorry, I don't remember Cain being married.

Women always get painted as the villains in these cases

And that makes his behaviour ok?

Moira has had a one night stand and a brief affair. John was dead when she slept with Alex so I have no idea why people are throwing that in her face. She was single.

Cain has slept with a mother and daughter. Slept with and knocked up his daughters, barely legal, girlfriend, all to break his daughters heart. Slept with and knocked up another, barely legal, girl and then spent months threatening her to have an abortion. Slept with Priya to wind Jai up. Had an affair with Moira.

Yes they do. Even if a single woman has an affair with a married man she still gets the majority of the blame because she knew he was taken

Had an affair with Moira to split up John and Moira. Cain knew that they were having marital problems and that's when he started to pursue Moira.

She wasn't blameless but neither was he

Tbh, that's why I was a bit surprised to see another poster calling ED out of touch with the modern world. Sadly I don't think they are at all.

And herein lies the crux of the problem. 4 lovers in 4 years is fairly restrained by soap standards, let along 4 in 25 years. But the problem is that they were so determined to portray John and Moira as having a fabulous, faithful marriage and only having been with each other. Even to the extent that john couldn't 'betray' his marriage vows with Chastity. The affair with Cain was so devastating because it so against what her marriage to John was. Frankly if it had been someone like Charity or Chastity it would have meant nothing as they clearly have no real concept of fidelity. For Moira to sleep with somebody else showed just how awful her home situation had become and also the strength of her sexual attraction to Cain. And in some ways that 'tacky' affair became legitimized by them properly falling in love and making a commitment 2 years later on. Alex, some may say it was too soon but people do things in grief. Often people with the happiest long term marriages (talking 30 or 40 years) remarry within a year of being widowed as they are so used to being with someone.

Bringing James in and saying Moura had been with somebody other than John before Cain (even if it was only a ONS) cheapens her marriage to John, the validity of her falling for Cain and her entire character.

And that is the writers fsault.

I still think that she doesn't deserve the abuse she's getting though. Unless it's going to turn out she was cheating all through the marriage with various men. Whuch given how they are p+++ing over character continuity wouldn't entirely surprise me.

His daughter doesn't have a heart.
Is 'no' not part of the language in Emmerdale?
Everyone (almost) makes it sound like those women had no choice.

Sadly this is true. The woman is tempting the poor man who is too weak to refuse and betraying the sisterhood by trying to take another woman's husband.

Things have come on a lot in the last few centuries (when women were still executed for adultery whilst men tended not to be) but we sadly still have a long way to go.

It seems often to come back to this sense that men are totally controlled by their libido so almost have a 'stupidity' get out clause whereas women brains are always more prevalent than their loins so know what they are doing. So bear more culpability, responsibility and guilt. It is our job to say no and if we don't, then it's on us, not the man.

Great post

I remember the first time Moira had been with Cain. There was a scene when she returns home afterwards and her self loathing was there for all to see. She hated herself and she certainly didn't look like a woman who had cheated on her husband before.

But now they have rewritten the Barton marriage to suit the arrival of James - and IT IS all down to the writers

How dare you



Of course they had a choice but most didn't know of his true intentions.

Ooh, red rag to a bull with Star89 and Debbie!!!!!
Of course these women can say no, it's not rape. Moira has a huge responsibility in this, both for the initial sexual encounter, then choosing not to tell John at the time, or when she fell pregnant, the 20 years or their marriage and how she has handled thing simce James and his boys re-entered her life.

But the point is she seems to be taking much more than half of the blame when she wasn't the only person that cheated. Arguably James' betrayal was worse as he not only cheated on his wife (and 2 young sons) but his brother as well. He didn't need to come back into Moira's life now - he could have kept his boys away. He didn't need to near stalk her with a combination of blaming her for his life going wrong and wanting another go with her these last few months. Or force the issue by doing an illegal dna test.

She, currently, is getting all the blame. James wasn't given anywhere near as hard a time by his boys as Moira was by Adam and Cain and I gather Holly and Hannah are turning their backs as well. Chas is still simpering after James whilst treating Moira like some kind of Jezebel and it is really unfair and does sseem somewhat misogynistic - the woman is at fault for being sexually attractive and not saying no. I'm not crying rape, it clearly wasn't. It was consensual but should be 50/50 re 'blame' and that isn't how it is coming across.

I knew it! You'd replied before I finished my one! Rather restrained for you there Star!

Actually it might go a long way towards Debbie's redemption (I hated her 2013) if she were the one to stand up and be a friend to Moira and put Cain and Chas in their place about it.

Urmmmm.. well....

Agreed. I loved John and Moira because they were a loving happily married couple. The had their little rows and made up again like normal couples do. Soap producers need to realize that we need happy and faithful couples to balance out all the affairs and other typical soap tripe.

This is why I keep saying I can't see her staying much longer. They have ruined Moira beyond recognition. Even if they did undo the whole James' is Adam's Biological Father part [they did leave themselves some room for that] it still leaves her ruined.

Ahh well, baby steps. I'd still like there to be another conversation about Moira miscarrying last year. I know Debbie wasn't directly responsible - she didn't force Moira to yomp over fields looking for Cameron's kids and it could just as easily have happened another time Moira was moving round the farm - she wouldn't have been in that exact circumstance if Debbie hadn't kept the kids in her house without telling anyone and Chas hadn't got her to help look and some recognition of how decent Moira was over that situation would be welcomed by me.

1 = Why? It's a fictional character. Not a million miles different from the 'actress', granted, but still.

2 - She went to him after Ross landed on her and, after she saw the state he (and his farm) was in, invited them.


Unfortunately she's just signed a new contract so we're stuck with her for some months yet.
They haven't ruined her. She was always a snotty hypocrite. (Although I don't think James is Adam's father. It's a plot (what's the word? 'vehicle' will do ) for Danny Miller's return.

1, oh we know it is all fiction. It's just that some FMS whilst not being delusional have very def faves that they will defend with a passion. And Star89 is somewhat Debbie's (and Jasmines) chief cheer leader.
2, yes she came to them but by the same token that she didn't need to say yes to sex 23 years ago, James didn't need to say yes to moving to her farm and bringing the 2 sons he had living with hin to the village. Yes she called him about Ross, that is to her credit I think. She then offered them help with their farm when they were on their uppers - also to her credit. James could have said no at any point.

I don't think Moira's a saint. She has made some very iffy decisions and hurt people, intentionally or not.

James actually got the sock from Andy's house so Adam was actually washing his own clothes.

I don't think Moira is close to being ruined.

I also don't think adding in things to her and John's past is terrible either. Her and John were high school sweethearts, but before they got married she must have had a bit of a wobble (I can't think of many people who would be ready to settle down straight after school) and that's when she had her drunken one night stand with James. It proved to her how much she loved John and would happily spend the rest of her life with him.

Though let us not forget that she did cheat on him with Cain anyway so it wasn't the perfect marriage by any means.

I do hope, though, that they do another DNA test and Adam is John's son in the end.

I don't blame Moira for sleeping with James all those years ago. She was very young at the time and we all make mistakes and considering she's living in a soap, she is bound to make more than most. However, I haven't really liked her behaviour since James confronted her about Adam's age. Continually lying and scheming, keeping from the truth from Adam, locking Chas in the cellar, etc. I'd have respected her more if she'd just sat Adam down and told him the truth, however hard that might have been.

Yes, he got it from Andy's house (hence me saying it could have Ross' sock got in by mistake) but i'm sure he asked whose washing it was and Ross said 'Mummy boys, waiting to go back to be done' which I assumed To mean Adam was taking his laundry back to Moira's to do.