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Do you want to know what Chile have that England don't? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 140
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Do you want to know what Chile have that England don't?
England have better individual players than Chile but performed far worse at this World Cup. There is a reason for this and for why England went out after 2 matches but Chile were only a couple of penalties away from being in the QFs. It's that magic ingredient that England just don't have anymore but Chile so obviously had in bucket loads.
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,247
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Well Chile beat England 2-0 at Wembley with some ease last season so maybe they do have the better players.
I'd rather we sorted out the mistakes and poor passing than worrying about showing so much passion we run around like headless chickens and get out of steam after an hour..which TBH we did anyway (lack of fitness) We can have players flying into tackles and banging their fists but that won't mean we become successful. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,632
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I think the answer is a squad that includes a TEAM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 638
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If England put away their chances and didn't concede sloppy goals they would be here tonight simple as that really. What I am most concerned about is the alarmingly poor quality of passing in midfield. Hopefully the new generation of young players can stay together and mature into a cohesive, efficient unit.
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,670
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Cojones.
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,208
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England are missing common sense!
They never keep tight on the other teams good players - they give them holds of Space & never close em down! |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,653
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Chile play as a team
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,975
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a manager who knows what he is doing?
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 6,975
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I knew before even opening this thread that the answer would be "passion"...
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,726
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England have better individual players than Chile?
I don't think so. Not from what I saw. The Chilean players looked to outclass the England players in every department. We may have heard of the names of the England players, but just because we haven't heard of these Chilean players doesn't mean that the bigger the name (In the UK) the better the player. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,726
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When you see good teams they pass quickly and accurately and keep possession for longer. When they do long passes they more often than not land at the other player's feet.
They work the ball up the pitch with clever moves which aren't easy to predict. The players get themselves into good space when they are off the ball. They get into spaces which back up their team mate on the ball. They have a kind of intelligence where they can see the tactical shape in the moment and can even see a little in advance. When you see a weaker team their passing ability is patchy at best. They boot the ball across the pitch attempting to pass to somebody at the other side of the pitch. It goes nowhere near them. Then they seem to blame each other. They don't back up their team mates as well when they get into a tight spot. They don't find good spaces when they're off the ball and as a consequence crosses go into the 6 yard box with nobody there. Their lack of passing quality means they end up resorting to hoofing the ball up the pitch in the vain hope that one of their team mates might get it by sheer luck. They don't seem to have that intelligence that's needed to read the shape of the game in the moment so the other team predict their next moves so easily. They probably don't possess this ability to read the positions and plan ahead because they're not used to being in this position where they'd know what to do anyway, as they're still struggling to control the ball and that's where all their concentration is going. Out of those two summaries I'd know which one more appropriately describes England more and which more appropriately describes Chile. |
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,936
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Passion
Pride Honour Bravery Courage Valiantness Cliche number 7 |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: St Ockwell
Posts: 761
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No english players
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#14 |
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Derby
Posts: 27,573
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Chile doesn't have better individual players. Those that have made it to England end up on the bench or in weaker teams. They play more effectively as a team. Why? Because their lives aren't dominated by big clubs so they can give more focus to their national team.
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,247
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Got me thinking - what would the reaction be had that been England losing in such a manner?
Would the press be saying bad luck guys but great performance or just criticism about having a lack of bottle for being defeated in another penalty shoot-out? Is there almost a sporting snobbery as Alright mate suggests in this country towards teams we don't here much about. As I say Chile beat England very easily so really maybe its not such a surprise they ran the favourites close (and beat the former World Champions) EDIT: They do have players who play for big clubs like Barca and Juve... |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
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The thing that strikes me about watching the other teams in the World Cup is how they just seem to move around so much more. Watching England play is like watching something from the ark. We play a type of football that is irrelevant in the modern game. We lack any sort of creativity and flare.
Paul Scholes was right. We will be lucky to qualify the way we are going. We have either stayed static or moved backwards in the way we play. |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5,258
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Quote:
England have better individual players than Chile but performed far worse at this World Cup. There is a reason for this and for why England went out after 2 matches but Chile were only a couple of penalties away from being in the QFs. It's that magic ingredient that England just don't have anymore but Chile so obviously had in bucket loads.
Spoiler
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,842
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I'd say that England overall have stronger individuals, but of course that doesn't make a better team. If you were to list the combined squads though, Sanchez and Vidal would be at the top.
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#19 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,639
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Arturo Vidal and Alexis Sanchez would make the England starting eleven, and would almost certainly look less impressive whilst doing so. Agree with others, Chile play better as a team, it's not all about individuals and Hollywood passes.
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,343
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Is there a Chilean equivalent of Nigel Reo Coker?
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,175
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If England lack passion as you say, what do you think is the root cause of it? If the reason is due to the players being overpaid then why do the elite football nations who also have highly paid players such as Holland, Argentina, Brazil, Germany etc.. not lack passion?
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 17,848
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Chile are also cr*p at pens
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#23 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I am NOT male, I'm female!!
Posts: 5,366
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Quote:
When you see good teams they pass quickly and accurately and keep possession for longer. When they do long passes they more often than not land at the other player's feet.
They work the ball up the pitch with clever moves which aren't easy to predict. The players get themselves into good space when they are off the ball. They get into spaces which back up their team mate on the ball. They have a kind of intelligence where they can see the tactical shape in the moment and can even see a little in advance. When you see a weaker team their passing ability is patchy at best. They boot the ball across the pitch attempting to pass to somebody at the other side of the pitch. It goes nowhere near them. Then they seem to blame each other. They don't back up their team mates as well when they get into a tight spot. They don't find good spaces when they're off the ball and as a consequence crosses go into the 6 yard box with nobody there. Their lack of passing quality means they end up resorting to hoofing the ball up the pitch in the vain hope that one of their team mates might get it by sheer luck. They don't seem to have that intelligence that's needed to read the shape of the game in the moment so the other team predict their next moves so easily. They probably don't possess this ability to read the positions and plan ahead because they're not used to being in this position where they'd know what to do anyway, as they're still struggling to control the ball and that's where all their concentration is going. Out of those two summaries I'd know which one more appropriately describes England more and which more appropriately describes Chile. |
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,726
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Quote:
I don't pretend to have much knowledge of football, but you have described perfectly, what my perception of it is when I watch. Its as though other teams just wait that fraction of a second longer before 'getting rid' of the ball. As though they control the ball, where England seem to let the ball dictate to them.
If a team are technically good, can take the ball off players from the other team, can pass accurately, can control the ball, can score goals, can defend strongly, can play with vision, then surely it's not just a case of being a good team, and that it must also be down to the ability of those players as individuals to be able to function effectively as a team? When you consider that as a theory it could well be that England may be a good team, (passion, motivation etc.) but can't deliver the goods because their players as individuals aren't really as good as they're made out to be? When I see an England player lose the ball a lot, pass badly, lose control of the ball, can I really say that they are a better player than a Chilean counterpart who can do all that, and just put it down to being a part of a bad team? |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
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It seems like months ago that England played in this world cup. Every game I have seen since has left me thinking we are so, so far behind the rest of the world.
What's even more scary is how deluded some people are. From getting out of the group to even winning the tournament. I have even noticed a lack of England merchandise on people's cars and houses as in previous years. |
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