Well tbh I really don't blame them. To me there is just no redeeming feature and never has been. Yes phil is vile but he wasn't always so horrid and has occasional flashes of redemption.

I think whilst many may look down their nose at Shirley; equally many project flaws and a "soft edge" onto the character that really isn't there.

They should have had Zoe or Sam kill him and Chrissie just part of the cover up. Then she could have come back after a couple of years. It would be a whole different show if she was queen of the square....fabulous character, fabulous actor. So short sighted to have her as the killer.

I think TAO really insisted that Chrissie kill den - she didn't want Chrissie to come across as a mug for taking him back and wanted her to take the ultimate revenge.

Chrissie had a lot of remorse over killing den and tried to turn herself in (twice) and also went to tell Sharon - all times stopped by jake. She didn't want to lie to Sharon. But this is why she was so interesting; she was a villain with a heart.

If I were on charge I'd bring back an embittered Vicki - someone who hates the memory of her father and who doesn't recognise the den that Sharon knew so goes to Chrissie. Reintroduce Chrissie that way. That or I'd retcon it so Chrissie was preggars by den (she'd just be a month or two off so depends on whether it's possible to carry a child for 10 months. Although I've heard of delayed fertilisation).

But I'd only do it if I could get TAO and Sarah phelps back to write for her.

Yeah, me neither. But for some reason I don't complete despise Shirley. I think it's because Linda Henry is such a good actor, she makes Shirley multi-layered even when her limited characterisation doesn't support this. I think she was most redeemed during her occasional 'nice' moments with Hev. But since Heather died, she's definitely been a lot harder to root for.

I wonder if TAO would be open to the idea of a return? Having Chrissie back would be brilliant, I remember being gutted when she left. (And yes, I am fully aware of how sad that sounds. Haha)

^I also agree that a lot of Shirley's appeal comes from Linda Henry's portrayal of the character, she makes her work and allows me to sympathise with Shirley even when she is revealing her worst. Linda H makes her three dimensional and I have a lot of respect for her for that. Shirley is a very complex character.

TAO has said she'd be keen to return but unlike a lot of former EE she has kept busy. She does stage, tv, film, radio - it all. I saw her in a play once where she played the complete opposite of Chrissie. This little mo type - flawless. If you ever get the chance to see her on stage she is fantastic at it.

Shirley's relatable? In what possible universe could that awful character be relatable?

The character needs to go. She is not interesting to carry off the big stories and audiences don't care for her.

I can get that; sometimes u just like a character because of who plays them (mostly).

She is brilliant. I do hope she becomes available for a return then, even if it is a short stint.Oh really? Brilliant, I will definitely look in to that and see if she has anything coming up, as an actress, I do rate her very much!

The latter is your opinion, you cannot state it as though it is fact. A lot of people do like the character and there is no reason she cannot pull of a big storyline. It would be like me saying 'no one cares for Lauren, she can't carry off any big stories' just because I don't like her, it doesn't mean others feel the same way.

Sorry, it just really bugs me when people try to voice their opinion as fact.

Maybe it is my opinion but seriously, you cannot tell me that audiences actually care that much for her. She's badly written on a near consistent basis and far too hard faced to even be viewed as a sympathetic character.

Double post.

She doesn't usually do overly expensive stuff; but she doesn't do stage with any degree of regularity; sometimes it's one play then nothing, other times she'll spend a year or two doing them. You have to keep your eye out.

I think in part it's because she can pick and choose as she apparently married a millionaire (lucky for some!).

10 months is entirely possible. In fact there have been claims of 48 week pregnancies.

She may not be invincible but she does go out of her way to deliberately ruin peoples lives for the fun of it or to get what she wants. Don't you remember her telling Heather to choose between her and Andrew or else she'd cut her out of her life (which she did). What do you think she was going to do when she walked into Sharon's hospital room before she overheard Phil ask Sharon to marry him? She was getting off on blackmailing Phil last week until he turned the tables on her. Don't you recall her telling him he likes it rough? That was a clear example of Shirley approaching orgasm at the thought of hurting someone. She took pleasure in telling Denise on her wedding day that she'd slept with Kevin and their marriage wouldn't last. She outed Johnny in The Vic in front of everyone just to get back at Linda.

Shirley is flawed alright but I don't see how she's vulnerable. A self pitying drunk who makes the lives of others miserable and shifts the blame rather than accept she's in the wrong is a better description. Say what you want about Phil but he has his moments where he shows others kindness. And if you can't admit that about Phil then don't. But cast your mind back a couple of years to when Phil had Shirley by his side and she was getting off on being his woman, lording it over less fortunate characters and bullying anyone who she deemed to be beneath her.

Phil is trash but Shirley is right there with him.

Also I agree with the sentiment that it is the talent of the actress rather than the writing for the character that has endeared Shirley to those who like her. On paper Shirley is an abomination of a character but Linda Henry somehow manages to remain watchable. I do think the writers should scale back her screentime though. There's only so much of this wretched character I can take. Like I said earlier in the thread it's the Brannings all over again.

Well I'd probably explore that. I mean given all the stress she was under (her Machiavellian schemes) she may not have realised it. Although it's a long time to go without noticing one is menstruating. But if you write so that she thought it was early menopause (she was in her early 40s iirc) or that she thought it was jakes and later blood tests proved differently - it would be complicated to write but could be explained clearly. Anyway would be worth it for a child of den and Chrissie!!!! What a horror!! That child vs Denny in a battle of the watts!! Lol!

You don't know that though, a lot of people like her character and Linda Henry's portrayal of Shirley makes her watchable and interesting.

I think that by showing her past will finally progress her on from some of the crap writing that she has been subjected to over the years. We have seen moments with Shirley where you know she cares, where she is conflicted but ends up doing the wrong thing, the exploration of her childhood will show why she has turned out the way she has and then therefore allow her to finanlly deal with it and soften a bit imo. I would like to see her bond with baby George, it would be good to have him feature more especially with Ben returning soon.

I find nothing at all relatable about the character of Shirley. She's one of the few characters in the cast who I can't relate to in any way in fact. Of course we've all made mistakes in life but I have no time for those who do nothing but cause misery and then feel sorry for themselves. I've known a few drunks in my time who had redeeming features when they were sober. I can't say that about Shirley.

I think I can actually. She was awful during Heather's death and the character is not sympathetic at all. Yes, terrible things have happened to her but that alone doesn't make her a sympathetic character. Henry can be good but Shirley's too much of a trainwreck to really give a crap about.

Again though, that is your opinion. At least I admit that people don't like her. No character is universally liked, well very rarely but you can't speak for everyone.

BIB Why should they. She certainly hasn't had as much screen time as some others this year, and many like watching her. You just can't have a character that is universally popular, so why would they pander to those who don't like certain characters. Come to think of it we wouldn't have a show if they reduced the airtime of every character who was disliked by some of the viewing public, because that's all of them.

She's nothing like the Brannings. They dominated the show to the exclusion of others for many years. Shirley was pretty much invisible last year and for the very first time she's getting a s/l of her own. IMO not only is this just and fair but it's about bl**dy time. Plenty of others have big s/ls running....Ian, Carol, Sharon, Dot, Ronnie, Linda, Johnny....

I think it's more the case that some would prefer her to go back to being a backround character.

I agree with all of this. Also I don't know why people are opposed to Shirley having a s/l. At the end of the day this s/l isn't just about her, it will affect the entire Carter clan and has created potential for new characters. I'm glad Shirley is no longer a background character but for people to say she has had too much screen time is baffling, she has had less time than Ian/Carol and others and many other characters have also been brought to the forefront.

George is only four and Shirley has already let him down several times. After appointing herself his second mother Shirley left baby George and Heather homeless on a park bench because Phil was on drugs and she wanted the chance to be his saviour. She tried to bully George's father out of his life. She had the chance to tell the police about Phil's role in covering up Heather's murder and did nothing. I can't imagine what Darren is thinking letting her anywhere near his son.

Heather was quite capable of taking herself off to the social and getting temporary housing, they wouldn't have left her homeless with a baby. She was a pathetic child/woman who expected Shirley to sort out every little problem for her instead of standing on her own two feet. Why should Shirley give up her chance of happiness just because Heather was acting like a pathetic fool. Shirley did beg Phil to let her stay but he was adamant that he didn't want her living with them. She soon found herself somewhere to live when she realised that Shirley wasn't going to drop everything to pamper to her again....she expected her to solve every little problem for her and be her mother.

I doubt George is back to live, it's probably just a visit.