BIB That was after Andrew dragged Heather out of her own hen night and tried to punch Shirley. He had been in prison for GBH and at one time trashed the café. She had good reason to believe that Andrew was bad news and would not make Heather happy. He resented every moment that she spent with Shirley and wanted to control and possess Heather....he also treated his mother like trash. Shirley shouldn't have made her choose and felt guilty that they'd argued just before Heather was murdered, but she was really worried about Andrew's violent and possessive nature.

Just because she was living with Phil it didn't mean she couldn't help with George...she was only across the square. Indeed she did move back in with her at one time and also helped her out financially. Minty (and Gary) also moved in with her and helped out as well....she even married him. Besides, once Darren knew that George was his son, he took on the daddy role and at one time had custody of him.

Exactly, I vaguely remembered this, but you have got it much more detailed. People seem to forget these parts! You hit the nail on the head.

LOL! She was deliberately trying to antagonise him. She stood there screaming at him to hit her! Shirley never wanted Heather with Andrew, temper or no temper. Andrew never put a finger on Heather. He loved her and would still be with her now. Shirley hated the fact she was losing her grip on Heather and did everything in her power to reel her back in. When it didn't work she cut her out of her life. And then she died. Que Shirley wallowing in self pity for the next 2 years.

I'd rather poke my own eyeballs out than watch Abi. It's not about who's nicer than who. It's about using divisive characters in moderation. Shirley isn't the first marmite character they've pushed to the forefront. Look at Max.

I only ever speak for myself which is why I'm prone to the repeated use of the word "I".

Shirley is a nasty, spiteful drunk and as she is drunk most of the time now this is the side of her we are seeing. Alcohol and drugs do this to most people. They are going to have to address this problem at some time...IMO her drinking is out of control. Her liver must be on it's last legs.

So I ask again, which is it? Was Heather a cherished friend she held close to her heart or someone she could pick up and drop whenever she wanted? You stated already that Heather was capable of looking after herself (I disagree) and that Shirley's priorities changed when she became involved with Phil. It was cruel to keep Heather dangling while Shirley cosied up with Phil, only giving a damn about Heather when someone else came along to divert her attention away from Shirley.

If Heather was capable of looking after herself then it was none of Shirley's business what Andrew got up to. She should have stuck to her new priority of Phil and let Heather live her life. Andrew was hardly beating her black and blue and controlling every move she made. Heather was in love with Andrew and planned to marry him despite Shirley's interference. Who is Shirley to tell Heather how to live her life?

Shirley was against Andrew from the minute she clapped eyes on him. Long before she knew about his temper. I remember Shirley would crawl back to Heather when Phil tired of her. I also remember Shirley moving Heather in with her and Phil and the pair of them treating her like a slave. Some friend.

It would be a good storyline to be fair. I'm sure Linda would do it justice. This is the way I would choose to move her character on and develop her. But you just KNOW Phil will have to be involved in her recovery. That's the storyline ruined before it even gets going and it's infuriating

I said that Heather was capable of taking herself off to the Social to sort out her housing, that doesn't mean her judgement was sound when it came to other areas of her life. Shirley cared about Heather enough to worry about her marrying a violent man. Just because he hadn't hit her (or George) yet didn't mean it wouldn't happen in the future. I wouldn't want my enemy to get involved with a violent man, let alone a friend or member of my family.

Wow I agree with you wholeheartedly

It would be a good storyline to explore and Linda would definitely do it justice. My hope was that as she said she has been using alcohol as an emotional crutch since her childhood that this s/l with her family will allow her to address her demons and therefore address her drinking and develop her character in a new direction. Linda, Mick, Shirley herself, Tina and Stan have all mentioned her drinking so hopefully this is the beginning of it being addressed.

When Linda takes her a/l, Shirley could go to rehab!

Then what good did it do to completely cut Heather off? She'd tried everything to split them up by that point and knew it wasn't going to work. Surely being in her life rather than leaving her in the clutches of what she perceived to be a viloent man would have been more in Heather's best interests. It was self serving act, in my opinion, because Shirley didn't get what she wanted. Just like last week when she blackmailed Phil because he wouldn't tell her he loves her.

I don't know about rehab...she must need a new liver by now.

First time for everything

Haha! I was just kidding because for some reason in Walford when people have addiction or are binge drinkers, they seem to just get over it themselves when in reality, I imagine it wouldn't be that easy!

Maybe they could include a new liver as part of the welcome pack.

It was said in anger. If Heather had lived they would have made it up. Indeed Heather had left a message for her that Phil deleted. This is the tragedy of sudden death, you don't get a chance to take back words you regret.

She's living in the right place for a cure...Mick can barricade her in her bedroom for a few days whilst Dot sits outside the room reading to her from the bible. She will emerge cured and wearing one of Dot's old frocks clutching a bible. She will then spend the rest of her days swigging pints of orange juice and trying to convert the punters....Amen.

Hahahahaha esp the bib.

Mate - you are wasting your breath here.

It is back to bad old Mona days again. There are some people so blinkered they refuse to acknowledge any bad points of their favourite characters and will spin threads out in pointless, repetitive argument due to an unwillingness to see any else's viewpoint..

Once again, every thread that mentions Shirley is being hijacked into argument.

As I said, back to the bad old days ....

I don't see anyone not acknowledging Shirley's bad points...she has them by the bucket load. As for bringing a banned user into it, that's against the T&C and is not constructive.

We are here to discuss Shirley not to take pot shots at FMs...past or present.

Thank you. I don't know what version of Shirley other people are watching but the one you've pointed out is the one the rest of us have been watching for the last seven and a half years. Shirley is vile.

None of us have neglected to acknowledge Shirley's bad points? I, myself also respect and understand the other viewpoints, everyone has a difference in opinion, and there is always two sides to a story, even in soap land. My only beef is when people try to pass their opinion off as the truth or the right opinion, when clearly an opinion is an opinion and not the gospel.
I fail to see why just because a character isn't consider the 'nicest', why some are so against others liking that character? Why is it such a crime? Like I have said previously, I don't like Lauren but I don't feel to turn threads that include her into a 'I don't like her so I will shoot down anyone else who does down' threads. Haha.

You're allowed to like whatever character you want but for me, Shirley is too hard to like as a character. She's had the odd moment of basic human decency but they're too far between to really help make her a likeable character.

You're very sensible.

In a good way though, right? Hahaha.

Oh yes of course. Even if you don't agree with people you're always polite and at least try to understand peoples views on here. You inject some sense into discussions when they get out of hand.