Russell T Davies fears soaps could 'die out within 10 years if they aren't careful'
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I think RTD could be right. But I disagree with the gay comment. There's been a boom in reality shows and they have a number of gay/lesbian/bisexual people in them and they will do more for the 'gay community' then soaps would as soaps are fiction and realty is reality. Obviously we won't have character development and SL development of sexuality but it will be a much more real veiw on gay/lesbian/bisexual.
I hope this doesn't turn into one of those 'Hollyoaks will go first bla bla bla'!
I hope this doesn't turn into one of those 'Hollyoaks will go first bla bla bla'!
He's blatantly right about the soaps being in danger. You'd have to be blind not to see the decline in ratings and quality. I don't think they'll fade away in an instant but a decade is a long time. I don't agree with him about the representation of gay characters. The soaps dying won't drive gay issues on tv back into the closet.
Originally Posted by Scorpio2:
“It's true look at ratings they are nowhere near as high as they once where.”
“It's true look at ratings they are nowhere near as high as they once where.”
However the audience share is still very healthy.
read this article
http://www.soapsquawk.co.uk/news/doc...rs.php#results
Yeah right- recent lower ratings are because of the world cup, and credited with reinventing the dr.who brand when doctor who has gone horribly downhill!
http://www.soapsquawk.co.uk/news/doc...rs.php#results
Yeah right- recent lower ratings are because of the world cup, and credited with reinventing the dr.who brand when doctor who has gone horribly downhill!
The fact that a purpose built studio has just been built on Salford Quays for Corrie kinda guarentees the show will have a long term future.
The ratings fall doesn't just affect the soaps though, it affects TV as a whole as we enter a time which is more and more reliant on digital/internet. People watching things when they have the time rather than having to stick to TV times.
I mean this might mean the end of soaps because they're never ending and people won't care to keep up, but it will affect the whole of television completely regardless of soaps.
I mean this might mean the end of soaps because they're never ending and people won't care to keep up, but it will affect the whole of television completely regardless of soaps.
Originally Posted by qwertye:
“read this article
http://www.soapsquawk.co.uk/news/doc...rs.php#results
Yeah right- recent lower ratings are because of the world cup, and credited with reinventing the dr.who brand when doctor who has gone horribly downhill!”
“read this article
http://www.soapsquawk.co.uk/news/doc...rs.php#results
Yeah right- recent lower ratings are because of the world cup, and credited with reinventing the dr.who brand when doctor who has gone horribly downhill!”
Russell T Davies did reinvent the Doctor Who brand very successfully. Whatever's happening with it now is nothing to do with him.
I would be amazed if the soaps aren't still with us and on our TV screen in 10 years time, gone are the days of 25 to 30 Million watching an episode of Corrie or EastEnders for example as there is now so much more choice in channels than there was say 20 years ago. Soaps are still the highest ranked programmes on TV and they still generate the most interest and money for the BBC and ITV respectively, that isn't going to change any time soon, also like Pyramidbread said Corrie have built a new state of the art set and EastEnders are to as well in the next few years, they are both going to want there money's worth. Soaps are here to stay, just look at the fuss made over 1 episode of EastEnders being postponed for 2 days, this place went crazy, imagine the fuss if all the soaps went altogether.
Originally Posted by Joe_Zel:
“Russell T Davies did reinvent the Doctor Who brand very successfully. Whatever's happening with it now is nothing to do with him.”
“Russell T Davies did reinvent the Doctor Who brand very successfully. Whatever's happening with it now is nothing to do with him.”
Considering the anniversary got 10.2m viewers in the UK, Doctor Who is doing fine at the moment too.
Originally Posted by Joe_Zel:
“The ratings fall doesn't just affect the soaps though, it affects TV as a whole as we enter a time which is more and more reliant on digital/internet. People watching things when they have the time rather than having to stick to TV times.
I mean this might mean the end of soaps because they're never ending and people won't care to keep up, but it will affect the whole of television completely regardless of soaps.”
“The ratings fall doesn't just affect the soaps though, it affects TV as a whole as we enter a time which is more and more reliant on digital/internet. People watching things when they have the time rather than having to stick to TV times.
I mean this might mean the end of soaps because they're never ending and people won't care to keep up, but it will affect the whole of television completely regardless of soaps.”
We were actually discussing this in an Australian soap thread yesterday with Neighbours being moved from a main terrestrial channel to a digital channel being used as an example. Its happening across all genres. TOWIE is being moved in order to launch ITV's new channel ITVBe, all BBC3 content is moving online and in the US, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is moving to a new, lesser channel to help launch it. The way we watch TV is changing dramatically and I think the likes of Netflix series like House of Cards and Orange is the New Black are helping to remove the stigma attached to online TV which was previously seen as cheap and poorly made. While I can't see it happening anytime soon, it's not completely inconceivable that current terrestrial series like soaps and sitcoms will move online or to digital sister channels in the future. I could see ITV going the Hollyoaks route by having a first look option on one of their channels if it was struggling to find an audience _- like Emmerdale on ITVBe for example.
Maybe, maybe not.
No, soaps obviously aren't what they once were - but I think it would be unrealistic to expect them to be. Tv has changed a tremendous amount. They don't have to get 20 million to be successful. They don't even have to get 10 million. If it compares well ratings wise with other programs or is in line with ratings trends in general - there shouldn't be a problem.
Straight to online tv shows are only just starting and I think you can expect them to grow and for that sort of thing to become the norm. This and viewers having so many options for catch up means more and more people will not be watching programs as they air. HBO calculates their ratings not just from initial viewings but catch ups and HBO go etc.
It's possible British soaps will just become stale, especially with so many really good drama's being produced nowadays with all sorts of gritty things being shown - soaps just won't compare. I think if the soaps can grow with the trends or even are allowed to grow they may stand a chance. I am going to hope the younger generations are less likely to want to flip out because of something less than savoury is shown which might mean they soaps could worry less and do more.
It's a toss up really and nothing lasts forever
No, soaps obviously aren't what they once were - but I think it would be unrealistic to expect them to be. Tv has changed a tremendous amount. They don't have to get 20 million to be successful. They don't even have to get 10 million. If it compares well ratings wise with other programs or is in line with ratings trends in general - there shouldn't be a problem.
Straight to online tv shows are only just starting and I think you can expect them to grow and for that sort of thing to become the norm. This and viewers having so many options for catch up means more and more people will not be watching programs as they air. HBO calculates their ratings not just from initial viewings but catch ups and HBO go etc.
It's possible British soaps will just become stale, especially with so many really good drama's being produced nowadays with all sorts of gritty things being shown - soaps just won't compare. I think if the soaps can grow with the trends or even are allowed to grow they may stand a chance. I am going to hope the younger generations are less likely to want to flip out because of something less than savoury is shown which might mean they soaps could worry less and do more.
It's a toss up really and nothing lasts forever
Originally Posted by Benllech:
“However the audience share is still very healthy.”
“However the audience share is still very healthy.”
Really. EE regularly gets under 30%. During the days of Chrissie watts the soap regularly pulled in 45%. In another decade EE may be looking at the low 20s - and the other soaps having a similar erosion.
There is no real bright spot here and hasn't been for ages. People on these threads were trying to blind themselves by talking about online viewing - and I remember on here when repeats were the golden caveat.
Fact is the soap audience has dwindled and whilst a portion of that may well be due to "changing viewer habits" and equally large if not bigger portion is due to the poor writing, over-reliance on shock plot-lines, reveals, and sensationalism, and generally poor management. EE has suffered from all these since the days of santer and never bothered to try and fix it. Rtd is 100% right.
Note: my comments pertain to EE cuz it's the only one I watch. But all the soaps are in a similar state.
Originally Posted by Filiman:
“Really. EE regularly gets under 30%. During the days of Chrissie watts the soap regularly pulled in 45%. In another decade EE may be looking at the low 20s - and the other soaps having a similar erosion.
There is no real bright spot here and hasn't been for ages. People on these threads were trying to blind themselves by talking about online viewing - and I remember on here when repeats were the golden caveat.
Fact is the soap audience has dwindled and whilst a portion of that may well be due to "changing viewer habits" and equally large if not bigger portion is due to the poor writing, over-reliance on shock plot-lines, reveals, and sensationalism, and generally poor management. EE has suffered from all these since the days of santer and never bothered to try and fix it. Rtd is 100% right.
Note: my comments pertain to EE cuz it's the only one I watch. But all the soaps are in a similar state.”
“Really. EE regularly gets under 30%. During the days of Chrissie watts the soap regularly pulled in 45%. In another decade EE may be looking at the low 20s - and the other soaps having a similar erosion.
There is no real bright spot here and hasn't been for ages. People on these threads were trying to blind themselves by talking about online viewing - and I remember on here when repeats were the golden caveat.
Fact is the soap audience has dwindled and whilst a portion of that may well be due to "changing viewer habits" and equally large if not bigger portion is due to the poor writing, over-reliance on shock plot-lines, reveals, and sensationalism, and generally poor management. EE has suffered from all these since the days of santer and never bothered to try and fix it. Rtd is 100% right.
Note: my comments pertain to EE cuz it's the only one I watch. But all the soaps are in a similar state.”
You missed my point.
The audience share has dropped in correlation with viewing figures, however despite the fragmentation of the audience share the soaps still look strong in comparison to the other shows on at that time as they still register significantly large percentages. Unless they are facing a real big-hitter like the World Cup for instance.
As for the next ten years it is hard to say conclusively what way soaps will go, but I agree with you that quality has dropped over said timescale.
Originally Posted by Pyramidbread:
“The fact that a purpose built studio has just been built on Salford Quays for Corrie kinda guarentees the show will have a long term future.”
“The fact that a purpose built studio has just been built on Salford Quays for Corrie kinda guarentees the show will have a long term future.”
As has also and which has already been pointed out - the same must be true of Eastenders with all the money they're spending / and which is due to be spent on their new set.
This does surely indicate the same to be the case with EE - that there simply must be a long potential future with lots of plans (for both soaps as well as all of the others) in the long term - and that they will both, almost certainly therefore - be still around in 10 years time.
Originally Posted by Filiman:
“Really. EE regularly gets under 30%. During the days of Chrissie watts the soap regularly pulled in 45%. In another decade EE may be looking at the low 20s - and the other soaps having a similar erosion.
There is no real bright spot here and hasn't been for ages. People on these threads were trying to blind themselves by talking about online viewing - and I remember on here when repeats were the golden caveat.
Fact is the soap audience has dwindled and whilst a portion of that may well be due to "changing viewer habits" and equally large if not bigger portion is due to the poor writing, over-reliance on shock plot-lines, reveals, and sensationalism, and generally poor management. EE has suffered from all these since the days of santer and never bothered to try and fix it. Rtd is 100% right.
Note: my comments pertain to EE cuz it's the only one I watch. But all the soaps are in a similar state.”
“Really. EE regularly gets under 30%. During the days of Chrissie watts the soap regularly pulled in 45%. In another decade EE may be looking at the low 20s - and the other soaps having a similar erosion.
There is no real bright spot here and hasn't been for ages. People on these threads were trying to blind themselves by talking about online viewing - and I remember on here when repeats were the golden caveat.
Fact is the soap audience has dwindled and whilst a portion of that may well be due to "changing viewer habits" and equally large if not bigger portion is due to the poor writing, over-reliance on shock plot-lines, reveals, and sensationalism, and generally poor management. EE has suffered from all these since the days of santer and never bothered to try and fix it. Rtd is 100% right.
Note: my comments pertain to EE cuz it's the only one I watch. But all the soaps are in a similar state.”
THIS^
I think some have a tendency to overplay the change in viewing habits card which obscures the underlying longterm trend.
At its most politely put soaps may be on their way to being a spent force.
Originally Posted by Matthew_Howarth:
“As has also and which has already been pointed out - the same must be true of Eastenders with all the money they're spending / and which is due to be spent on their new set.
This does surely indicate the same to be the case with EE - that there simply must be a long potential future with lots of plans (for both soaps as well as all of the others) in the long term - and that they will both, almost certainly therefore - be still around in 10 years time.”
“As has also and which has already been pointed out - the same must be true of Eastenders with all the money they're spending / and which is due to be spent on their new set.
This does surely indicate the same to be the case with EE - that there simply must be a long potential future with lots of plans (for both soaps as well as all of the others) in the long term - and that they will both, almost certainly therefore - be still around in 10 years time.”
Not really.The building of sets just shows that the BBC and ITV have an intention and desire too keep their soap going.They certainly want to keep them going but since when has wanting something guaranteed how things will play out?
Both broadcasters have flushed larger amounts of money down the toilet on failed projects than the cost of these soap set rebuilds.
He definitely as a fair point. Who of the younger generation actually sits down and watches a soap now? Reality TV rules all.
Originally Posted by Benllech:
“You missed my point.
The audience share has dropped in correlation with viewing figures, however despite the fragmentation of the audience share the soaps still look strong in comparison to the other shows on at that time as they still register significantly large percentages. Unless they are facing a real big-hitter like the World Cup for instance.
As for the next ten years it is hard to say conclusively what way soaps will go, but I agree with you that quality has dropped over said timescale.”
“You missed my point.
The audience share has dropped in correlation with viewing figures, however despite the fragmentation of the audience share the soaps still look strong in comparison to the other shows on at that time as they still register significantly large percentages. Unless they are facing a real big-hitter like the World Cup for instance.
As for the next ten years it is hard to say conclusively what way soaps will go, but I agree with you that quality has dropped over said timescale.”
Well said
Originally Posted by Hildaonpluto:
“THIS^
I think some have a tendency to overplay the change in viewing habits card which obscures the underlying longterm trend.
At its most politely put soaps may be on their way to being a spent force.”
“THIS^
I think some have a tendency to overplay the change in viewing habits card which obscures the underlying longterm trend.
At its most politely put soaps may be on their way to being a spent force.”
How can they be on their way to being a spent force when week in week out they top the viewing figures? there is no danger of them slipping off the radar for the foreseeable.
Someone posted data yesterday in the TV Ratings thread which showed EastEnders averaging over one million hits per episode on iplayer. Nothing else comes close to that. Perhaps some of you are underestimating the huge shift in viewer trends because that sort of data puts EastEnders well ahead of Corrie in terms of overall viewership reach. The days of sitting around with the family watching soaps are over. People have busier and more active lives in 2014 than they did in 1994. Why do you think TV On Demand is so popular?
You can't dismiss the change in viewer trends just because it doesn't suit a crisis agenda.
Further more, both Corrie and EastEnders have/had huge amounts of money invested into new sets to keep them on the air for at least another two decades. The Elstree Studio complex is being completely remodelled around the new EastEnders set. The BBC can't show any more commitment than that.
Strangely enough i was thinking about this topic over the past few days, im 21 right now and i thought to myself "will ee,corrie,emmerdale and hollyoaks all be around when im in by 60's?" and i think they are just going to die out one by one over time and then something new is going to take their place. by the time i'm in my 80's corrie will be around the 100 yr mark if it is still on. i honestly cant see it or any soap lasting that long :/
Soaps are a victim of their own success in many ways. There's undeniably been a significant change in audience habits over the last decade, with the rise of on demand tv, but the decline in the quality of soaps cannot be ignored. There has been a noticeable decline in quality in all of the mainstream soaps in the last 10/15 years. I don't think it's any coincidence this decline coincided with the increased output - EastEnders has four episodes a week, Corrie has five, Emmerdale is on pretty much every day. When writers have to churn out so much material every week to fill the schedules the quality is inevitably going to be diluted. Producing soaps became all about quantity (and winning the 'ratings war') and less about quality.
I'm not sure there's any way back for soaps now, they've basically done everything/covered every possible issue there is to cover. EastEnders is now relying on recycling old plots and repackaging them as new ones (how many 'I'm secretly your mother' plots have we had now? It's tedious). No wonder people are tuning out. There are so many other shows available that actually still have the ability to create engaging characters and great drama (Breaking Bad, Sherlock, House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, Call the Midwife etc) we just don't see that in soaps any more.
I'm not sure there's any way back for soaps now, they've basically done everything/covered every possible issue there is to cover. EastEnders is now relying on recycling old plots and repackaging them as new ones (how many 'I'm secretly your mother' plots have we had now? It's tedious). No wonder people are tuning out. There are so many other shows available that actually still have the ability to create engaging characters and great drama (Breaking Bad, Sherlock, House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, Call the Midwife etc) we just don't see that in soaps any more.
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