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Quarter Final | Argentina v Belgium | 5 July | ITV 5pm KO
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carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by SSReporters:
“Brazil and Argentina going into defensive shells for large parts of their 2nd halves is annoying.

Don't really expect a quality final at this rate.”

I never do. When has there been a quality final since 1970? '74 was average, '78 was 6 out of 10, '82 was one of the worst games of the tournament if you ignore the fix of Austria v Germany, '86 was OK. '90 and '94 were abysmal, '98 was average, with Brazil choosing that moment to play by far their worst game of the entire tournament, 2002 was "meh". 2006 was reasonable - but even there the most memorable moment was a head-butt by Zidane - and 2010 resembled a UFC bout rather than a football match. It might be a bit tasty if it turns out to be Brazil/Argentina, but if you're not very naive you know who's going to win anyway.
Hetal
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Goodwin:
“Not a great match and Belgium had their moments but expect them to fare better at the '16 Euros if they qualify. Argentina defend well but perhaps Robben (if The Netherlands beat Costa Rica) can cause them some problems.

Apart from the Brazil match last night, not been the greatest set of q/f/'s in a world cup. Hoping for a better game later on.”

What moments?
NiteOwl12
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“The goal average is now 2.69.

In 1994 it was 2.71, 1998 was 2.67, I don't remember either of those being known as the "tournament of goals goals goals" even though they had as many as this one.

I do believe we live in a 24/7 media cycle with much more hype than ever. Sky declared 2013/14 the best premier league season ever, after they declared 2012/13 the best ever, 2011/12 the one before that. Every season is the best ever! ”

It is also to do with the quality of world cups this millennium. and how far back people's memory goes. 2010 was dire with a disgraceful, forgettable final; 2002 was memorable for the scandalous officiating; and I've gone blank on 2006
crofter
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Banana Rama:
“wilmots should be sacked, he didn't come close to getting the best out of the talent in that belgium squad. his persistent selection of fellaini who has been consistently poor for them, and his wimbledon long ball tactics, are difficult to understand when you have the likes of witsel, dembele, defour, hazard, mertens, mirallas, de bruyne to pick from in midfield...”

Or is it possible that Belgium have a great squad but most of their players are at a similar level - just below world class??

I don't think they got any joy in the game until they started pumping long balls into the box and they certainly weren't going to play themselves round that Argentina defensive unit.
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Hetal:
“What moments?”

If you're clutching at straws you could describe shots off target as "moments" I suppose.
Goodwin
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Peter Venkman:
“I'm sure there was something about it in 1998. I myself thought there sure are a lot of goals in this WC.”

159 goals thus far. Only 2 behind the total of Japan/South Korea tournament. France '98 had 171 goals so it may take some doing to overhaul that. The knockout stages haven't been goal fests but don't suppose that's a total surprise.
Thomas007
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by carnoch04:
“It's not all about goals though. Lots of matches finishing 5-0 would give you plenty goals but not much edge-of-the-seat stuff. Most of the last 16 and all the quarters so far have been close games. That what makes it better.”

I know I get what you are saying but I'm questioning the medias role in overhyping absolutely everything we see. Calling it a tournament of goals goals goals every 5 seconds is a bit strange giving we've had as many goals in other WC's as if the whole thing is historic.

If they said, we've a lot of tight close games I wouldn't argue with them. The media are more influencial and powerful than ever, I think Sky's brilliant work of Froch vs Groves proves that.
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by crofter:
“I think people are getting mixed up with actual quality against entertainment and endeavour - the group stages and 50% of the knockout games have been decent with a few classics...”

Which games were classics? I must have missed them.
Apollo Creed
05-07-2014
Ive been watching World Cups since 1990 and without looking into it, I think this has been my 2nd fave behind France 98 which was soured somewhat with the whole Ronaldo business in the final.

We need a great Semi Final or Final to really cement this one into the memory I think
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“I know I get what you are saying but I'm questioning the medias role in overhyping absolutely everything we see. Calling it a tournament of goals goals goals every 5 seconds is a bit strange giving we've had as many goals in other WC's as if the whole thing is historic.”

And remember that there have been more teams and matches in the last four World Cups anyway. In fact 1970 had exactly HALF the number of games - 32 as opposed to 64. Even 1994 had as many as twelve fewer games (although to be fair it would probably have still been a generally boring tournament with 150 games).

Quote:
“If they said, we've a lot of tight close games I wouldn't argue with them. .”

A tight, close game with a last-minute goal doesn't make a classic any more than lots of goals do.

A perfect illustration of your point about hype can be seen in the effusive praise of Brazil v Colombia. On FiveLive, the likes of the excellent Chris Waddle, an aberration among English footballers of his era in having insight, intelligence (and unusual techinque and intelligence on the pitch as a player) rightly pointed out the game was a "joke", as opposed to the ITV and TalkSport commercially driven panels effusing about the so-called "great game that shows how this best ever World Cup just keeps the coming".
Thomas007
05-07-2014
According to someone on twitter there was only 3 shots on target in this match, the lowest since 1990 WC final. No idea if that's true.
tiger2000
05-07-2014
The QF's have been very disappointing, France were poor, Columbia not up to their earlier performances and Belgium looked clueless until the final minutes. I expect tonights Hol/CR game to be one sided, hopefully I'll be wrong.
Apollo Creed
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by carnivalist:
“I never do. When has there been a quality final since 1970? '74 was average, '78 was 6 out of 10, '82 was one of the worst games of the tournament if you ignore the fix of Austria v Germany, '86 was OK. '90 and '94 were abysmal, '98 was average, with Brazil choosing that moment to play by far their worst game of the entire tournament, 2002 was "meh". 2006 was reasonable - but even there the most memorable moment was a head-butt by Zidane - and 2010 resembled a UFC bout rather than a football match. It might be a bit tasty if it turns out to be Brazil/Argentina, but if you're not very naive you know who's going to win anyway.”


Was the '70 final that good? I am too young to recall it and obviously I've seen just how good the football was that Brazil played that day but was it a 'classic'? On paper it seems like a one sided game. I realise I am probably being naive but was it just a great Brazil performance or a bona fide good final?
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by C Horse:
“Cameroon beating the holders? The Germany-Holland game? As you say, the Semi-Final?...”

Only Germany v Holland and our game of those was a classic in my opinon - but I have to accept the possibilty that my opinion of the latter is biased. Granted Cameroon were a revelation for those of us not versed in African footballers, with good players like Omam Biyik that most of us had never heard of, but Argentina were poor in that game evidenced by their performance against a side with 9 men. I'm surprised they got to the final to be honest and they were horrific when they got there. The reason why I don't agree it was a classic tournament as a whole was the extremely poor quality of most of the other matches.
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Apollo Creed:
“Was the '70 final that good? I am too young to recall it and obviously I've seen just how good the football was that Brazil played that day but was it a 'classic'? On paper it seems like a one sided game. I realise I am probably being naive but was it just a great Brazil performance or a bona fide good final?”

I don't know, as '74 was the first one i was old enough to remember, but the fact that it had a performance and a team that are almosst universally considered the best ever must carry some weight in favour of it being described as a classic
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Thomas007:
“According to someone on twitter there was only 3 shots on target in this match, the lowest since 1990 WC final. No idea if that's true.”

It sounds entirely possible.
Apollo Creed
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by carnivalist:
“I don't know, as '74 was the first one i was old enough to remember, but the fact that it had a performance and a team that are almosst universally considered the best ever must carry some weight in favour of it being described as a classic”

Fair point but I wonder if in this social media age it would be considered as one sided. Like I said I know nothing about it other than the score and the goals so I am happy to be proven wrong. If not then you are looking at '66 as the last great final due to the fact that there was 6 goals in a game that could have gone either way. I'm certainly not saying that with my England flag draped over me by the way. I find it embarrassing how many talk about that day when a lot of their fathers weren't even born!
Jokanovic
05-07-2014
Belgiums golden generation looks on target to achieve the same as ours. Nowt.
Hetal
05-07-2014
I normally consider football matches a classic based on the moment of madness more than how well the teams played.

Nothing has topped the WC match when Italy bursted into life against Germany in 2006 in those final 2 minutes. That second goal was just unbelieveable.
Apollo Creed
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Hetal:
“I normally consider football matches a classic based on the moment of madness more than how well the teams played.

Nothing has topped the WC match when Italy bursted into life against Germany in 2006 in those final 2 minutes. That second goal was just unbelieveable.”

I thought the whole game was intriguing despite being goalless for so long
carnoch04
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Jokanovic:
“Belgiums golden generation looks on target to achieve the same as ours. Nowt.”

They hadn't qualified since 2002 so to get to the quarter-finals is an decent achievement
carnivalist
05-07-2014
Originally Posted by carnoch04:
“They hadn't qualified since 2002 so to get to the quarter-finals is an decent achievement”

If this is just the springboard then you could say that. However with the players they have failure to do better at Euro 2016 will put them firmly in the same bracket as us.

Blimey - saying that the footballing giants of Belgium just MIGHT end up being as useless as we are in the long-term puts everything in de[pressing perspective.
Mark F
06-07-2014
Belgium seemed overcome a bit with the occasions whilst Argentina after that early goal knew what they needed to do.

Bit like Germany v France.
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