as they used it in the Name of the Doctor maybe we'll see how clara saved 7 from the massive cliff on ice world. Surely the cliffhanger to end all cliffhangers!!!
Moffat's "Massive cliffhanger" = Series 9 or 10th anniversary of New Who?
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Originally Posted by inspector drake:
“Or, if you did, there would be appropriate explanations or flashbacks.”
“Or, if you did, there would be appropriate explanations or flashbacks.”
Just like when Moffatt did it. Appropriate, I mean. Not overly simplified, like we are simpletons. Not spoonfed like babies, that kind of appropriate.
Nobody take this the wrong way please, because I enjoy reading opinions of all sorts here and debate is great, but whenever things turn a bit RTD versus SM, I have an urge to link to the comparing sonics scene from Day of The Doctor with David and Matt playing so well off each other. 
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“Nobody take this the wrong way please, because I enjoy reading opinions of all sorts here and debate is great, but whenever things turn a bit RTD versus SM, I have an urge to link to the comparing sonics scene from Day of The Doctor with David and Matt playing so well off each other.”
“Nobody take this the wrong way please, because I enjoy reading opinions of all sorts here and debate is great, but whenever things turn a bit RTD versus SM, I have an urge to link to the comparing sonics scene from Day of The Doctor with David and Matt playing so well off each other.
”
It would be nice to have a thread talking about something Moffat related without people joining it for the sole reason other than to slag him off. We have enough Moff hate already without people turning every little thread into one.
(BTW, love that analogy).
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“Just like when Moffatt did it. Appropriate, I mean. Not overly simplified, like we are simpletons. Not spoonfed like babies, that kind of appropriate.”
“Just like when Moffatt did it. Appropriate, I mean. Not overly simplified, like we are simpletons. Not spoonfed like babies, that kind of appropriate.”
Indeed. We all know he CAN do them. The only problem is he usually waits too long.
Originally Posted by kjwilly:
“You DO know that Moffatt did not write that episode of Sherlock, don't you? # whyletfactsgetinthewayofyouropinion”
“You DO know that Moffatt did not write that episode of Sherlock, don't you? # whyletfactsgetinthewayofyouropinion”
Actually I didn't - I stand corrected!
At the end of the finale he comes face to face with the new Dalek Emperor.
...who then...
Opens its upper case, to reveal Davros inside.
...who then...
Pulls off his mask to reveal the Master.
...who then....
Reveals that he has already captured Gallifrey with the help of Omega!
Well, that's what I read on the Internet
...who then...
Opens its upper case, to reveal Davros inside.
...who then...
Pulls off his mask to reveal the Master.
...who then....
Reveals that he has already captured Gallifrey with the help of Omega!
Well, that's what I read on the Internet
Originally Posted by Whovian1109:
“It would be nice to have a thread talking about something Moffat related without people joining it for the sole reason other than to slag him off. We have enough Moff hate already without people turning every little thread into one.
(BTW, love that analogy).”
“It would be nice to have a thread talking about something Moffat related without people joining it for the sole reason other than to slag him off. We have enough Moff hate already without people turning every little thread into one.
(BTW, love that analogy).”
There is alot of thinly veiled Mpffat hatred on this forum. If I see a thread about RTD and his era my first thought isn't to rush in and say Moffat is better. Unfortunately the more zealous RTD fans seem to think this is good form and so we hear the same recycled criticisms again. And again. And again.
and half the time theyre not even true. See blaming Moffat for episodes he hasn't even written. And making blanket statements like 'too many multi time zone stories' (interesting that no ones returned to actually answer my question and name all these episodes. Funny that)
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“There is alot of thinly veiled Mpffat hatred on this forum. If I see a thread about RTD and his era my first thought isn't to rush in and say Moffat is better. Unfortunately the more zealous RTD fans seem to think this is good form and so we hear the same recycled criticisms again. And again. And again.
and half the time theyre not even true. See blaming Moffat for episodes he hasn't even written. And making blanket statements like 'too many multi time zone stories' (interesting that no ones returned to actually answer my question and name all these episodes. Funny that)”
“There is alot of thinly veiled Mpffat hatred on this forum. If I see a thread about RTD and his era my first thought isn't to rush in and say Moffat is better. Unfortunately the more zealous RTD fans seem to think this is good form and so we hear the same recycled criticisms again. And again. And again.
and half the time theyre not even true. See blaming Moffat for episodes he hasn't even written. And making blanket statements like 'too many multi time zone stories' (interesting that no ones returned to actually answer my question and name all these episodes. Funny that)”
Hmmm. I'd say before being a fan of any writer or actor, I am a fan of Doctor Who itself. I think both writers did some absolutely brilliant things, and both did things which I dislike (see my posts above about Moffat or anything I have posted about the Tenth Doctor's regeneration.)
It is entirely possible to like both while being willing to point out disagreeable things.
Originally Posted by saladfingers81:
“There is alot of thinly veiled Moffat hatred on this forum. If I see a thread about RTD and his era my first thought isn't to rush in and say Moffat is better. Unfortunately the more zealous RTD fans seem to think this is good form and so we hear the same recycled criticisms again. And again. And again.
and half the time theyre not even true. See blaming Moffat for episodes he hasn't even written. And making blanket statements like 'too many multi time zone stories' (interesting that no ones returned to actually answer my question and name all these episodes. Funny that)”
“There is alot of thinly veiled Moffat hatred on this forum. If I see a thread about RTD and his era my first thought isn't to rush in and say Moffat is better. Unfortunately the more zealous RTD fans seem to think this is good form and so we hear the same recycled criticisms again. And again. And again.
and half the time theyre not even true. See blaming Moffat for episodes he hasn't even written. And making blanket statements like 'too many multi time zone stories' (interesting that no ones returned to actually answer my question and name all these episodes. Funny that)”
Though I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your post(for once) it is worth pointing out in fairness that RTD has had his equal share of criticism and hatred on this forum.
Those of you who've been on this forum for a few years may remember a certain poster who used to make it his daily mission in life to slate RTD at every opportunity. Even non-related threads such as 'What is your fave Peladon story? he could turn in a heartbeat into some criticism of RTD and his era. It actually got quite monotonous after a while but did at least provide a few lively debates, some of them I sadly do miss!
So I guess my point is that the hatred surrounding Moffat is nothing new on this forum. Matt Smith had it, apparently Catherine Tate had it, RTD's critics weren't limited to that one particular poster but I've still seen him get some right abuse from elsewhere.
Originally Posted by daveyboy7472:
“Though I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your post(for once) it is worth pointing out in fairness that RTD has had his equal share of criticism and hatred on this forum.
Those of you who've been on this forum for a few years may remember a certain poster who used to make it his daily mission in life to slate RTD at every opportunity. Even non-related threads such as 'What is your fave Peladon story? he could turn in a heartbeat into some criticism of RTD and his era. It actually got quite monotonous after a while but did at least provide a few lively debates, some of them I sadly do miss!
So I guess my point is that the hatred surrounding Moffat is nothing new on this forum. Matt Smith had it, apparently Catherine Tate had it, RTD's critics weren't limited to that one particular poster but I've still seen him get some right abuse from elsewhere.
”
“Though I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your post(for once) it is worth pointing out in fairness that RTD has had his equal share of criticism and hatred on this forum.
Those of you who've been on this forum for a few years may remember a certain poster who used to make it his daily mission in life to slate RTD at every opportunity. Even non-related threads such as 'What is your fave Peladon story? he could turn in a heartbeat into some criticism of RTD and his era. It actually got quite monotonous after a while but did at least provide a few lively debates, some of them I sadly do miss!
So I guess my point is that the hatred surrounding Moffat is nothing new on this forum. Matt Smith had it, apparently Catherine Tate had it, RTD's critics weren't limited to that one particular poster but I've still seen him get some right abuse from elsewhere.
”
I was lurking for ages before I joined last year, and remember a lot of that stuff. Particularly the vitriol towards Catherine Tate. Ridiculous knee jerk nonsense. Some of it was horrible and personal, and like similar with RTD or SM, that's what I really dislike. People here love Doctor Who. People here disagree or not about what makes a good Doctor, companion, story, era, show runner, whatever. That's why I enjoy the forum. Get personal about people you've never met.....absolutely ridiculous. Best TV show ever....but it's still just the telly!
I've lurked out of curiosity on a couple of other forums, mind. DS is not in some of those league. Thank heavens.
I'll shut up now.
Originally Posted by CAMERA OBSCURA:
“Could be the lead into the end of 12’s search for Gallifrey.”
“Could be the lead into the end of 12’s search for Gallifrey.”
Who's to say Twelve will search for Gallifrey? Us "Whovians" don't know yet, as none of Series 8 has been shown. He may not want to do so.
Originally Posted by Michael_Eve:
“I was lurking for ages before I joined last year, and remember a lot of that stuff. Particularly the vitriol towards Catherine Tate. Ridiculous knee jerk nonsense. Some of it was horrible and personal, and like similar with RTD or SM, that's what I really dislike. People here love Doctor Who. People here disagree or not about what makes a good Doctor, companion, story, era, show runner, whatever. That's why I enjoy the forum. Get personal about people you've never met.....absolutely ridiculous. Best TV show ever....but it's still just the telly!
I've lurked out of curiosity on a couple of other forums, mind. DS is not in some of those league. Thank heavens.
I'll shut up now.”
“I was lurking for ages before I joined last year, and remember a lot of that stuff. Particularly the vitriol towards Catherine Tate. Ridiculous knee jerk nonsense. Some of it was horrible and personal, and like similar with RTD or SM, that's what I really dislike. People here love Doctor Who. People here disagree or not about what makes a good Doctor, companion, story, era, show runner, whatever. That's why I enjoy the forum. Get personal about people you've never met.....absolutely ridiculous. Best TV show ever....but it's still just the telly!
I've lurked out of curiosity on a couple of other forums, mind. DS is not in some of those league. Thank heavens.
I'll shut up now.
”
I wasn't on here when CT was getting a lot crap but would love to have seen the reaction after her first episode in Series 4 had aired. I imagine there was some dumbfounded faces around!
And please, never shut up.
Originally Posted by The War Doctor:
“Personally, I don't think story arcs belong on Doctor Who. One of the great things about RTD's stories was that you could just switch on and chill out. You didn't have to sit there and remember something that happened months ago.”
“Personally, I don't think story arcs belong on Doctor Who. One of the great things about RTD's stories was that you could just switch on and chill out. You didn't have to sit there and remember something that happened months ago.”
This. When I first started watching Doctor Who, it was during the third season. My parents have been fans of the show since it began so they always used to buy me the DVDs.
In RTD's era, the DVDs came in parts. I watched these parts in no particular order and since each episode was so separate (much like the Classic series), I wasn't really bothered.
Now, I feel like I need to watch the entire season, just so I can watch the episode I want, so I can get the gist of the arc and really understand the story.
I feel that "The Time of Angels" two-parter could have had potential, but then Moffat had to put a random crack in it which didn't even fit into the story. "Let's Kill Hitler" was the first episode of the Summer season back in 2011, meaning it was prime to new viewers. But I know that if I watched the episode I would have no idea what was going on. "What is she doing?" "How come they already know her when she's only just changed her face?" "Why did she poison the Doctor?"
Originally Posted by mrmcc76:
“as they used it in the Name of the Doctor maybe we'll see how clara saved 7 from the massive cliff on ice world. Surely the cliffhanger to end all cliffhangers!!!”
“as they used it in the Name of the Doctor maybe we'll see how clara saved 7 from the massive cliff on ice world. Surely the cliffhanger to end all cliffhangers!!!”
Pun intended?
Originally Posted by Firegazer:
“I feel that "The Time of Angels" two-parter could have had potential, but then Moffat had to put a random crack in it which didn't even fit into the story.”
“I feel that "The Time of Angels" two-parter could have had potential, but then Moffat had to put a random crack in it which didn't even fit into the story.”
Well, yes it did, it was fairly fundamental to the story. But if you watch it back, you'll notice that everything needed to understand it was written into the story, and not as a big bunch of expository dialogue either.
Quote:
“"Let's Kill Hitler" was the first episode of the Summer season back in 2011, meaning it was prime to new viewers. But I know that if I watched the episode I would have no idea what was going on. "What is she doing?" "How come they already know her when she's only just changed her face?" "Why did she poison the Doctor?"”
“"Let's Kill Hitler" was the first episode of the Summer season back in 2011, meaning it was prime to new viewers. But I know that if I watched the episode I would have no idea what was going on. "What is she doing?" "How come they already know her when she's only just changed her face?" "Why did she poison the Doctor?"”
You could say that about any recurring character. What is the significance of that blonde girl talking to Donna in Turn Left? Why was she shouting on computer screens in earlier episodes? Why is the phrase Bad Wolf significant?
It's really hard to 'see' things as a new viewer when you're not. Sometimes, it's harder to follow things you think you should know, as opposed to things you don't know that you don't know.
I think there are breadcrumbs that can be followed; Moffat announced that he'd figured out the massive cliffhanger for Series 9 shortly after issuing a challenge to the fans.
Moffat challenged the fans to pinpoint the exact episode where it was first conclusively proven that the Doctor isn't human. He seemed to think that it's been alluded to, hinted at, claimed or assumed - but never conclusively proven.
Maybe he wanted the fans to take the challenge and discuss or ponder the issue over the next couple of years. Maybe he thought that if confronted with all the evidence the fans can muster, more people could actually start to see the flaws in what's been accepted all this time - meaning less resistance and backlash if and when Moffat decides to incorporate such a dramatic twist in the show itself.
I think in some ways he's a fool for trying this and thinking it could actually work. The issue has already been a hot topic since 1996 with most fans still preferring to explain away the "half human" comment that the 8th Doctor made. Then again, he won't really need to worry about opening that particular can of worms if Series 9 is indeed his last series.
Moffat challenged the fans to pinpoint the exact episode where it was first conclusively proven that the Doctor isn't human. He seemed to think that it's been alluded to, hinted at, claimed or assumed - but never conclusively proven.
Maybe he wanted the fans to take the challenge and discuss or ponder the issue over the next couple of years. Maybe he thought that if confronted with all the evidence the fans can muster, more people could actually start to see the flaws in what's been accepted all this time - meaning less resistance and backlash if and when Moffat decides to incorporate such a dramatic twist in the show itself.
I think in some ways he's a fool for trying this and thinking it could actually work. The issue has already been a hot topic since 1996 with most fans still preferring to explain away the "half human" comment that the 8th Doctor made. Then again, he won't really need to worry about opening that particular can of worms if Series 9 is indeed his last series.
Originally Posted by John_Smith62:
“I think in some ways he's a fool for trying this and thinking it could actually work.”
“I think in some ways he's a fool for trying this and thinking it could actually work.”
Er - he hasn't yet! Nor may he ever.
Originally Posted by rwebster:
“Er - he hasn't yet! Nor may he ever.”
“Er - he hasn't yet! Nor may he ever.”
If it's the case that the two things are unrelated then fair enough, but these two things occurred so close together that there's more than a small amount of chance they are linked.
Moffat must have challenged his fans to find indisputable evidence that the Doctor isn't human for a reason - and when no clear answer came, probably came to the conclusion that he'd succeeded in finding his loophole. If that's what happened, it's no surprise he suddenly announced that he'd figured out his cliffhanger so soon afterwards.
And assuming this is true (which is only conjecture right now), he probably thinks that he's managed to avoid the otherwise certain backlash and could actually get away with such a twist simply by confronting the fans about it beforehand, to test how safe such an idea is. The problem is - people might not be able to conclusively prove that the Doctor isn't human but that won't stop people insisting that he isn't regardless.
People have tried for decades to rationalize and explain McGann's line in the 1996 movie. Plenty of these explanations are acceptable on paper - yet people really don't seem to like the idea of the Doctor being human and will always rally against it no matter what the evidence.
Originally Posted by alphonsus:
“Sadly i have to concur. Moffat can write some awesome stuff, but he is (IMO) overly impressed with his own cleverness and lets 'being clever' get in the way of a decent storyline - look at the first episode of the most recent series of Sherlock. If you take out all the 'how did he survive stuff', which comprised half of the airtime, what's left was actually rather tedious. The Time of the Doctor, which should have been an epic swan-song for Smith, suffered from the same flaw. I think he should stick to what he clearly does best: tightly scripted single or double stories, but leave story arcs to someone else. And stop mucking about with 'multi-time-zone' stories. They've been done to death now.”
“Sadly i have to concur. Moffat can write some awesome stuff, but he is (IMO) overly impressed with his own cleverness and lets 'being clever' get in the way of a decent storyline - look at the first episode of the most recent series of Sherlock. If you take out all the 'how did he survive stuff', which comprised half of the airtime, what's left was actually rather tedious. The Time of the Doctor, which should have been an epic swan-song for Smith, suffered from the same flaw. I think he should stick to what he clearly does best: tightly scripted single or double stories, but leave story arcs to someone else. And stop mucking about with 'multi-time-zone' stories. They've been done to death now.”
> overly impressed with his own cleverness
really, are you sure ?
>lets 'being clever' get in the way of a decent storyline.
He has an exceedingly high IQ.
>I think he should stick to what he clearly does best
Yeah, writing very clever multi dimensional stories.
>but leave story arcs to someone else
His story arcs are stunning.
>And stop mucking about with 'multi-time-zone' stories. They've been done to death
May be eastenders is more your type of thing or blankety blank.
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“The only cliffhanger I want at the end of Season 8 is; "Who will be the new executive producer/lead writer?"”
“The only cliffhanger I want at the end of Season 8 is; "Who will be the new executive producer/lead writer?"”
God, yes. I'm already disappointed that he wasn't ditched at the end of the execrable series 7.
Originally Posted by Shaven_Scorcher:
“> overly impressed with his own cleverness
really, are you sure ?
>lets 'being clever' get in the way of a decent storyline.
He has an exceedingly high IQ.
>I think he should stick to what he clearly does best
Yeah, writing very clever multi dimensional stories.
>but leave story arcs to someone else
His story arcs are stunning.
>And stop mucking about with 'multi-time-zone' stories. They've been done to death
May be eastenders is more your type of thing or blankety blank.”
“> overly impressed with his own cleverness
really, are you sure ?
>lets 'being clever' get in the way of a decent storyline.
He has an exceedingly high IQ.
>I think he should stick to what he clearly does best
Yeah, writing very clever multi dimensional stories.
>but leave story arcs to someone else
His story arcs are stunning.
>And stop mucking about with 'multi-time-zone' stories. They've been done to death
May be eastenders is more your type of thing or blankety blank.”
Complicated doesn't = complex
Moffat is a one-dimensional hack who does nothing but regurgitate his own stale ideas.
Think he is planning a big exit for next year. Eieehr in the S9 finale or 2015 christmas special.Apparently 12 will evntually start answering huis phone checking his messages.Plus we have the "woman in the shop" mystery as a slow burner. Hope he answers at least some of that before he hands DW over to a new producer. Untill then we get 12,Clara and Danny's adventures.
Originally Posted by Kapellmeister:
“Complicated doesn't = complex
Moffat is a one-dimensional hack who does nothing but regurgitate his own stale ideas.”
“Complicated doesn't = complex
Moffat is a one-dimensional hack who does nothing but regurgitate his own stale ideas.”
No, you just don't like his work. Perhaps you could just say that, without being incomprehensibly rude every time his name comes up.
Originally Posted by John_Smith62:
“Moffat challenged the fans to pinpoint the exact episode where it was first conclusively proven that the Doctor isn't human. He seemed to think that it's been alluded to, hinted at, claimed or assumed - but never conclusively proven.”
“Moffat challenged the fans to pinpoint the exact episode where it was first conclusively proven that the Doctor isn't human. He seemed to think that it's been alluded to, hinted at, claimed or assumed - but never conclusively proven.”
While I don't know whether such evidence exists, it's an interesting question in light of the frequent "you look human" "no, you look Time Lord" exchanges - were the Time Lord's distant ancestors human? Or are the Time Lords our ancestors? Or did they dabble in the ape's DNA to make them more intelligent, in the same way that a mix of Time Lord into Donna did?
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