Is there a point in time that The Doctor knows as The Present day or does he just see everything from a point of view outside time? I mean, is there a button in the TARDIS that if he pushed it right now would take him to July 2014?
Does The Doctor have a concept of "the present"?
I don't know what you mean by a button saying July 2014? I am guessing you mean a button that takes him in the present. The problem with that is that time is relative (it actually is) and assuming the TARDIS travels at very high speeds (near the speed of light) what may seem like hundreds of years on Earth to the Doctor it could be only 1 year has passed. A similar thing happens when the TARDIS is nearer to the Earth core for a long time (or in area which has a similar amount of gravitational potential).
As for what he considers the present, I would say he doesn't consider any time to be the present.
As for what he considers the present, I would say he doesn't consider any time to be the present.
Originally Posted by bp2:
“I don't know what you mean by a button saying July 2014? I am guessing you mean a button that takes him in the present. The problem with that is that time is relative (it actually is) and assuming the TARDIS travels at very high speeds (near the speed of light) what may seem like a year on Earth to the doctor it could be hundreds of years. A similar thing happens when the TARDIS is nearer to the Earth core for a long time (or in area which has a similar amount of gravitational potential)”
“I don't know what you mean by a button saying July 2014? I am guessing you mean a button that takes him in the present. The problem with that is that time is relative (it actually is) and assuming the TARDIS travels at very high speeds (near the speed of light) what may seem like a year on Earth to the doctor it could be hundreds of years. A similar thing happens when the TARDIS is nearer to the Earth core for a long time (or in area which has a similar amount of gravitational potential)”
I don't suppose that's what more or less what happened at the start of Aliens of London, or was that just 'Idris' mucking about?
Originally Posted by Valourant:
“I don't suppose that's what more or less what happened at the start of Aliens of London, or was that just 'Idris' mucking about?”
“I don't suppose that's what more or less what happened at the start of Aliens of London, or was that just 'Idris' mucking about?
”
I would guess the doctor couldn't fly the TARDIS to the precise location in that instance. And the bit you quoted I made a silly mistake (typed too fast) was wrong that would happen if the TARDIS was travelling at speeds no where near the speed of light and the Earth was travelling near the speed of light for a year (who knows it could happen in Doctor Who). One year spent by the Doctor in the TARDIS and decades could have passed on Earth. This was referenced in the Invasion.
This is why the Doctor needs a companion! He needs some stability. At least Rose, Susan, Sarah-Jane, Martha, Jamie, Vicki, Ace, Tegan and Donna gave him some form of staying on the ground!! He would go mad like the Master otherwise!!
i don't think we can actually pinpoint the Doctors "Present" as it is different for each doctor 
like take the Day of the Doctor for example
you had 11, 10, and WAR.
all three were in the present at that time but it was also either their past or future at the same time
i think he in theory exists "outside" the universe so to speak and you cant narrow down a present for him as he literately is all over all of space and time so where ever the tardis takes him is his present .
like take the Day of the Doctor for example
you had 11, 10, and WAR.
all three were in the present at that time but it was also either their past or future at the same time
i think he in theory exists "outside" the universe so to speak and you cant narrow down a present for him as he literately is all over all of space and time
so where ever the tardis takes him is his present .
The doctor has a present in the sense that he had a life on Gallifrey and his subsequent visits have a chronology. When he lands, people can tell him "it's been X number of years since your last visit..." etc. Also, they make him president at one point, and Timelords are forbidden to travel into Gallifrey's past, nor would they induct a president in his own future.
My trusty continuity bible (Timelink by Jon Preddle) points out that in 'Arc Of Infinity' the scenes on Gallifrey are contemporaneous with Earth in 1983, so in that story, the Doctor's present was 1983. It's not always this easy to tell though.
My trusty continuity bible (Timelink by Jon Preddle) points out that in 'Arc Of Infinity' the scenes on Gallifrey are contemporaneous with Earth in 1983, so in that story, the Doctor's present was 1983. It's not always this easy to tell though.
Originally Posted by emby2:
“
My trusty continuity bible (Timelink by Jon Preddle) points out that in 'Arc Of Infinity' the scenes on Gallifrey are contemporaneous with Earth in 1983, so in that story, the Doctor's present was 1983. It's not always this easy to tell though.”
“
My trusty continuity bible (Timelink by Jon Preddle) points out that in 'Arc Of Infinity' the scenes on Gallifrey are contemporaneous with Earth in 1983, so in that story, the Doctor's present was 1983. It's not always this easy to tell though.”
Isn't there a Tom Baker story (set in our future) where the Doctor makes a comment about being born around that time?
Can't recall what story just something I once read somewhere but that would of course contradict the idea that Present Day Gallifrey was contemporaneous with Earth in 1983.
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“Isn't there a Tom Baker story (set in our future) where the Doctor makes a comment about being born around that time?
Can't recall what story just something I once read somewhere but that would of course contradict the idea that Present Day Gallifrey was contemporaneous with Earth in 1983.”
“Isn't there a Tom Baker story (set in our future) where the Doctor makes a comment about being born around that time?
Can't recall what story just something I once read somewhere but that would of course contradict the idea that Present Day Gallifrey was contemporaneous with Earth in 1983.”
The story you're thinking of is 'Nightmare Of Eden', but in the context of the scene, the Doctor is clearly being flippant in order to confuse the two Azurian investigators.
the doctors present is wherever he is at any time like every one else
his time line is not aligned with anyone
his time line is not aligned with anyone
Originally Posted by axe70:
“the doctors present is wherever he is at any time like every one else
his time line is not aligned with anyone”
“the doctors present is wherever he is at any time like every one else
his time line is not aligned with anyone”
Ok then, answer me this: When the Doctor gets recalled to Gallifrey at the end of 'The Hand Of Fear', when are they calling from? His past, his present or his future?
As far as he's concerned his present obviously, because as axe70 said, the Doctor's "present" is always where and when he is at any given time.
Although he's a time traveller, his life is still linear like anyone else's, he lives his life as a linear progression, despite going through life prolonging regenerations, and will eventually die as any being who isn't immortal will.
I'm afraid I have always had a slight problem with him being able to meet previous incarnations for this reason, but we would have lost a lot of great stories if this hadn't been explored in the series!
Although he's a time traveller, his life is still linear like anyone else's, he lives his life as a linear progression, despite going through life prolonging regenerations, and will eventually die as any being who isn't immortal will.
I'm afraid I have always had a slight problem with him being able to meet previous incarnations for this reason, but we would have lost a lot of great stories if this hadn't been explored in the series!
No, it doesn't. Time travel in Doctor Who is, essentially, broken. There is no logic to it in Doctor Who. Sometimes you can change the past - as long as you don't know what was supposed to happen - sometimes you can't. It just depends on the dramatic needs of the storyline.
Similarly, there is a sort of "universal now" in Doctor Who which is also illogical. How can everyone, wherever and whenever they are "forget" the Doctor and then, later, remember? How can there be a time war where all the Time Lords were wiped out when you can go into the past and still meet them? How can the Doctor not know where they are? If they do eventually reappear he can just take the TARDIS into the future to find them. Why can't he go back to New York between, say 1940 and 1960, "now", when he presumably could have "before", and retrieve the Amy and Rory? By "now" and "before" I mean in his own, personal chronology or timeline. "When" did New York in that time period become off limits?
if you start to analyse too much it really doesn't add up.
Similarly, there is a sort of "universal now" in Doctor Who which is also illogical. How can everyone, wherever and whenever they are "forget" the Doctor and then, later, remember? How can there be a time war where all the Time Lords were wiped out when you can go into the past and still meet them? How can the Doctor not know where they are? If they do eventually reappear he can just take the TARDIS into the future to find them. Why can't he go back to New York between, say 1940 and 1960, "now", when he presumably could have "before", and retrieve the Amy and Rory? By "now" and "before" I mean in his own, personal chronology or timeline. "When" did New York in that time period become off limits?
if you start to analyse too much it really doesn't add up.
Well, look at it this way, the Doctor's companions are time travellers, but we all agree that they have a present. By definition of being a companion, they go on all the same adventures as he does, but you don't say "their present is always where and when they are at any given time" about them, do you? River Song is a time traveller, but we all know her present is the 51st century.
The doctor spends 99% of the time not in his present, admittedly, but that doesn't mean he changes his view of what it is. Even when he settles down in 1963 Shoreditch, he refuses to view it as his new present, ("I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it").
If you're referring to the Inforarium, the Doctor only has to delete himself from the database at it's source (the specific time he's placed on the system) and then the infomation is gone for the remainder of the Inforarium's Administration. He then does this for all other similar databases.
The war is time-locked, but the moment lets the doctors in.
DOCTOR 10: These events should be time-locked. We shouldn't even be here.
DOCTOR: So something let us through.
MOMENT: You clever boys.
There are an infinite number of universes where they could be, and the very absence of the Time Lords means travel between them is difficult.
It's not really about New York, but the interaction between him and Amy and Rory's personal timeline. If they moved to Chicago, that would be off limits as well, not because it's Chicago or the 1940s, but because Amy and Rory are there.
The doctor spends 99% of the time not in his present, admittedly, but that doesn't mean he changes his view of what it is. Even when he settles down in 1963 Shoreditch, he refuses to view it as his new present, ("I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it").
Originally Posted by GDK:
“How can everyone, wherever and whenever they are "forget" the Doctor and then, later, remember?”
“How can everyone, wherever and whenever they are "forget" the Doctor and then, later, remember?”
If you're referring to the Inforarium, the Doctor only has to delete himself from the database at it's source (the specific time he's placed on the system) and then the infomation is gone for the remainder of the Inforarium's Administration. He then does this for all other similar databases.
Quote:
“ How can there be a time war where all the Time Lords were wiped out when you can go into the past and still meet them?”
“ How can there be a time war where all the Time Lords were wiped out when you can go into the past and still meet them?”
The war is time-locked, but the moment lets the doctors in.
DOCTOR 10: These events should be time-locked. We shouldn't even be here.
DOCTOR: So something let us through.
MOMENT: You clever boys.
Quote:
“How can the Doctor not know where they are?”
“How can the Doctor not know where they are?”
There are an infinite number of universes where they could be, and the very absence of the Time Lords means travel between them is difficult.
Quote:
“Why can't he go back to New York between, say 1940 and 1960, "now", when he presumably could have "before", and retrieve the Amy and Rory? By "now" and "before" I mean in his own, personal chronology or timeline. "When" did New York in that time period become off limits?”
“Why can't he go back to New York between, say 1940 and 1960, "now", when he presumably could have "before", and retrieve the Amy and Rory? By "now" and "before" I mean in his own, personal chronology or timeline. "When" did New York in that time period become off limits?”
It's not really about New York, but the interaction between him and Amy and Rory's personal timeline. If they moved to Chicago, that would be off limits as well, not because it's Chicago or the 1940s, but because Amy and Rory are there.
Originally Posted by axe70:
“the doctors present is wherever he is at any time like every one else
his time line is not aligned with anyone”
“the doctors present is wherever he is at any time like every one else
his time line is not aligned with anyone”
that's exactly my take on it.
i suppose you could say that he comes from 'a' time relative to Gallifrey history but Earth time is just that, Earth time, it is meaningless elsewhere. If Earth was destroyed, its time stops so of you came from the 1930s stepped aboard the TARDIS and after leaving, Earth exploded, you would be from no time.
probably why star trek has stardates.
Just an interesting aside, but when I was listening to the new 4th Doctor/Leela 'Big Finish' audio adventures they visited modern-day earth.
I was fully expecting some hilarious moments with Leela trying to understand what a mobile phone was, and the 4th Doctor furiously denouncing the evils of social media.
Except they didn't visit modern day Earth . . they visited Earth in the 1970s, which, in the 70s, was modern day Earth!
It was very clever for the Big Finish team to take that into account when writing the Doctor/Leela stories but also reinforces the idea that the Doctor is in someway in sync with the Earth from the 1960s through to modern day (2014) . .. with a bit of confusion around the middle with those UNIT stories.
I was fully expecting some hilarious moments with Leela trying to understand what a mobile phone was, and the 4th Doctor furiously denouncing the evils of social media.
Except they didn't visit modern day Earth . . they visited Earth in the 1970s, which, in the 70s, was modern day Earth!
It was very clever for the Big Finish team to take that into account when writing the Doctor/Leela stories but also reinforces the idea that the Doctor is in someway in sync with the Earth from the 1960s through to modern day (2014) . .. with a bit of confusion around the middle with those UNIT stories.
Originally Posted by Face Of Jack:
“This is why the Doctor needs a companion! He needs some stability. At least Rose, Susan, Sarah-Jane, Martha, Jamie, Vicki, Ace, Tegan and Donna gave him some form of staying on the ground!! He would go mad like the Master otherwise!!”
“This is why the Doctor needs a companion! He needs some stability. At least Rose, Susan, Sarah-Jane, Martha, Jamie, Vicki, Ace, Tegan and Donna gave him some form of staying on the ground!! He would go mad like the Master otherwise!!”
I would say this. A companion anchors him in some era of time.
Originally Posted by emby2:
“Well, look at it this way, the Doctor's companions are time travellers, but we all agree that they have a present. By definition of being a companion, they go on all the same adventures as he does, but you don't say "their present is always where and when they are at any given time" about them, do you? River Song is a time traveller, but we all know her present is the 51st century.
The doctor spends 99% of the time not in his present, admittedly, but that doesn't mean he changes his view of what it is. Even when he settles down in 1963 Shoreditch, he refuses to view it as his new present, ("I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it").”
“Well, look at it this way, the Doctor's companions are time travellers, but we all agree that they have a present. By definition of being a companion, they go on all the same adventures as he does, but you don't say "their present is always where and when they are at any given time" about them, do you? River Song is a time traveller, but we all know her present is the 51st century.
The doctor spends 99% of the time not in his present, admittedly, but that doesn't mean he changes his view of what it is. Even when he settles down in 1963 Shoreditch, he refuses to view it as his new present, ("I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it").”
Quote:
“If you're referring to the Inforarium, the Doctor only has to delete himself from the database at it's source (the specific time he's placed on the system) and then the infomation is gone for the remainder of the Inforarium's Administration. He then does this for all other similar databases.”
“If you're referring to the Inforarium, the Doctor only has to delete himself from the database at it's source (the specific time he's placed on the system) and then the infomation is gone for the remainder of the Inforarium's Administration. He then does this for all other similar databases.”
I don't mean the Inforarium. In some stories he talks about going into the shadows for a while, and then later he re-emerges.
When does the "rest of the Universe" forget him? For him the period might've been between his 600th and 700th birthday, let's say. (It wasn't, but bear with me for the sake of argument). He's a time traveller. He visits Earth between his 600th and 700th birthday in 1066, 2000, 2500, 3million. Do the people he meets know his reputation, know of him? Let's say after his 700th birthday he visits Earth in the year 900, 1966, 25400, 2 million. Do those people know of him or his reputation? Can you see how that just doesn't make sense?
Quote:
“The war is time-locked, but the moment lets the doctors in.
DOCTOR 10: These events should be time-locked. We shouldn't even be here.
DOCTOR: So something let us through.
MOMENT: You clever boys.”
“The war is time-locked, but the moment lets the doctors in.
DOCTOR 10: These events should be time-locked. We shouldn't even be here.
DOCTOR: So something let us through.
MOMENT: You clever boys.”
I'll buy that one. It's totally arbitrary, and time locking is illogical too, but I'll buy that.
Quote:
“There are an infinite number of universes where they could be, and the very absence of the Time Lords means travel between them is difficult.”
“There are an infinite number of universes where they could be, and the very absence of the Time Lords means travel between them is difficult.”
He's a time traveller who knows pretty much everything about everything. If at some point in the future the Time Lords re-emerge, he could just jump forward in time to find out where they are, unless they keep themselves hidden (or don't return) forever. Or a future Doctor could travel back in time and leave a message to tell our "present" Doctor where and when they are.
Quote:
“It's not really about New York, but the interaction between him and Amy and Rory's personal timeline. If they moved to Chicago, that would be off limits as well, not because it's Chicago or the 1940s, but because Amy and Rory are there.”
“It's not really about New York, but the interaction between him and Amy and Rory's personal timeline. If they moved to Chicago, that would be off limits as well, not because it's Chicago or the 1940s, but because Amy and Rory are there.”
OK. It makes sense that it's Amy and Rory, not the specifics of New York, but the question still remains when do they become off limits. In the Doctor's time line of course it's after the events of TATM. Was there a time when that period of their lives wasn't off limits to the Doctor? Could an earlier Doctor meet Amy and Rory in that period because he hasn't experienced TATM yet?
In some sense, the Doctor has to exists outside of normal time and the present we see is his present. It's that present that we the audience follow. If you step outside of that conceit, it doesn't really make sense.
