Okay, let's see if you are similarly dismissive about the fact no European side has won a world cup held in America, north, south and central, all of which have been won by teams from South America.

Just saw that Van Gaal has said that 2 of his players refused to take the first penalty without saying which ones

Only caught a bit of the game on the radio but it seems like I didn't miss much

I wanted Holland to win badly, but Van Gaal's keeper substitution against Costa Rica proved to be a mistake. His players and the keeper were very unsure of themselves and Argentina knew that this was not Van Gaal's first choice keeper.

Yes, there's been no end to LvG's 'tactical genius':

No goals in 4 hours of football, playing 2 clearly unfit players, knocking your first choice keeper's confidence, players refusing to take penalties......... if only there had been cooling breaks

BBC's Match Facts. Some of these are quite shocking:

- The Netherlands have lost both of their semi-final shootouts (the first coming v Brazil in 1998).

- Argentina have won all four of their World Cup semi-finals.

- Arjen Robben attempted just one pass in the first half against Argentina.

- Lionel Messi did not touch the ball in the penalty area during the 120 minutes.

- Seven of the 14 knockout games at this tournament have gone to extra time, the most since 1990 (eight).

- This was the first World Cup semi-final to end 0-0 (including extra-time).

Makes you wonder if the crazy match the night before made both teams go into their shell even more. I can understand the 1st half being cagey and erring on the side of caution but the Dutch should have been more adventurous in the 2nd without being reckless. van Persie may as well not been playing. He obviously wasn't fully fit apart from anything else. A missed opportunity by the Dutch.

For all the deluded who believe David Luiz is world class, Mascherano's performance in this game illustrated why this is so laughable.

Mascherano is a midfielder by rights, but lives for the art of defending. He's selfless, disciplined, has no on-field ego to speak of and is a very consistent defensive-minded player.

Luiz is a defender by rights, but lives for the art of looking good. He's selfish, ill-disciplined (positionally and physically), has an on-field ego and is a very inconsistent defender.

Luiz's party tricks seem to elevate him to a status he does not deserve as a defender but if his new empoyers can find a role for him in their team that best suits his skills, good luck to both - there's a good footballer in there but his strengths and weaknesses make it difficult to find an ideal position - probably a quarterback style deep lying midfielder with a decent defence behind him and a disciplined midfield ahead of him.

Missed the game and only seen the penalties.

Did both teams look like they were playing safe and not really going for the win as such?

If anyone's still got this game recorded, what did the stadium announcer say when he introduced the Argentine national anthem?

BIB - who is that?!?!?!?!?!

His mum? Although surely she must be having doubts now??

Which are shocking?

Couldn't agree more. I've never rated him. I didn't see him every game. Only the live matches and MOTD highlights but never looked like a defender and not much of a midfielder either so was shocked that he was a Chelsea regular, a Brazil regular and got a 50m trasnfer fee.

Seems more like a midtable team player.

At least two Chelsea fans in here were adamant on the matter at the tail end of last season. The PlayStation quip by Neville rankled some yet is so true - just careers forward with little regard to the spaces he leaves behind and takes stupid risks in his own half.

Holy crap, Vlaar's penalty came inches from crossing the line after spinning back following Romero's save:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R1AyIV-tQM

They didn't show that on the broadcast but what a turnaround that could have been.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...land-argentina

(Also worth noting that it may have hit Vlaar's shoulder before it started rolling back)

Wow, didn't realise that, but that's what goalline technology is for Sneijder still missed though. Holland's players were very nervous because they knew their keeper couldn't catch a penalty and Argentina's players were very confident that as long as they didn't miss the goal it would go in.

Also, if Van Gaal really asked Robben or Sneijder (who else could he have chosen?) to go first and they refused, they didn't deserve to play in the final. In the most important game of their career great players have to step up and lead.

Pirlo took the first penalty in the 2006 final and he said: "Being first on the spot, kicking off that torture in the biggest, most incredible game that a player can play or imagine. That's not necessarily good news. It means they think you're the best, but it also means that if you miss, you're the first on the list of ********s."

Wow, that's interesting.