|
||||||||
Eloratings rank Germany's performance as the greatest in football history |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#51 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Does everyone still think Holland's win over Spain was a sensational display and "performance of the tournament"? For the third game in succession, they're struggling badly to break down a well organised defence.
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#52 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,284
|
It was a sensational 2nd half, and unexpected, which is why they haven't been able to repeat it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#53 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
It was a sensational 2nd half, and unexpected, which is why they haven't been able to repeat it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#54 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,284
|
Quote:
It certainly was but I still say Germany's win last night tops it : they've twice handed out a trashing to big name teams in this tournament whereas NL are being lauded for a very good 45 minutes against a poor enough Spanish team with an off form goalkeeper.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#55 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Germany faced a hopeless 11 last night though.
Have a look at tonight's stats, apart from that half chance for Robben near the end, NL didn't have a single shot on target for the entire 90 minutes. |
|
|
|
|
|
#56 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,215
|
Quote:
I'll stick my neck out and say that that Brazil team were better than the Spanish team that lost 5-1 to NL.
Have a look at tonight's stats, apart from that half chance for Robben near the end, NL didn't have a single shot on target for the entire 90 minutes. So the Spain that has won 3 tournaments in a row and has a abundance of players who just played into the all Spanish CL and Europa league finals are worse than David Luiz, Fred etc? Again you and I will just have to agree to disagree.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#57 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,931
|
Quote:
I'll stick my neck out and say that that Brazil team were better than the Spanish team that lost 5-1 to NL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#58 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Really?
So the Spain that has won 3 tournaments in a row and has a abundance of players who just played into the all Spanish CL and Europa league finals are worse than David Luiz, Fred etc? Again you and I will just have to agree to disagree. ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#59 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,777
|
Quote:
I'll stick my neck out and say that that Brazil team were better than the Spanish team that lost 5-1 to NL.
Have a look at tonight's stats, apart from that half chance for Robben near the end, NL didn't have a single shot on target for the entire 90 minutes. Spain were poor, but not nearly as bad as Brazil were last night. |
|
|
|
|
|
#60 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,931
|
Spain were at ease until Van Persies equaliser. The Dutch played a remarkable second half.
Brazil were shambolic from start to finish. If anyone is telling me Spain were worse than that against the Dutch I don't think they justify being taken seriously at all. |
|
|
|
|
|
#61 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Spain were at ease until Van Persies equaliser. The Dutch played a remarkable second half.
Brazil were shambolic from start to finish. If anyone is telling me Spain were worse than that against the Dutch I don't think they justify being taken seriously at all. The fact that the Dutch have been incapable of reproducing that 45 minutes since then is quite telling......they're heading for their second 120 minute 0-0 in a row here. |
|
|
|
|
|
#62 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,931
|
I must be watching a different World Cup altogether, let alone different matches.
You have to realise footballers are not robots. How Holland and Argentina have planned tactically to combat Messi and Robben respectively is not something that can be played out or explained through a review of ELO stats. |
|
|
|
|
|
#63 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,931
|
Quote:
Brazil started the game strongly last night though and pressed Germany really hard for the opening 10 minutes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#64 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Not a chance for me. Spain were in control of that game for the first 40 minutes or so until Silva fluffed a great opportunity to make it 2-0. After that, Spain sought to protect their lead and the Dutch began to have more possession, and they made full use of it as Spain collapsed at the back.
Spain were poor, but not nearly as bad as Brazil were last night. Germany in that form would have slaughtered Spain last night (or the version of Spain we saw in the opening two matches anyway) especially if they ran in some early goals against them. Does anyone think Germany would have scored less than five goals against Spain had the two sides met yesterday evening? |
|
|
|
|
|
#65 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,931
|
It is a nonsense discussion point because your whole approach seems to be Team A beats Team B 3-0, Team B beats Team C 3-0, therefore, Team A would beat Team C 6-0.
Manchester United could win 8-0 against a mid table team but it doesn't mean they would go on a rampage of double figure results against relegation sides. Tactics, injuries and gameplans also have impact. |
|
|
|
|
|
#66 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
|
Quote:
I must be watching a different World Cup altogether, let alone different matches.
You have to realise footballers are not robots. How Holland and Argentina have planned tactically to combat Messi and Robben respectively is not something that can be played out or explained through a review of ELO stats. Last night's game was freakish, it was effectively all over in 30 minutes, largely as as a result of 6/7 minutes of suicidal defending by a Brazil. Germany could play Brazil every week for the next ten years and never achieve the same result. Germany played well, but they weren't outstanding..they didn't need to be. Tonight's game was a proper contest between two sides who set up to nullify the opposition's threats. Of course I enjoyed the Germany/Brazil game, it was the kind of oddity and result that will live in the memory for ever. But it wasn't football as I know it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#67 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
It is a nonsense discussion point because your whole approach seems to be Team A beats Team B 3-0, Team B beats Team C 3-0, therefore, Team A would beat Team C 6-0.
Manchester United could win 8-0 against a mid table team but it doesn't mean they would go on a rampage of double figure results against relegation sides. Tactics, injuries and gameplans also have impact. Nobody has explained yet either why NL have totally failed to replicate that blistering 45 minutes against Spain. If Germany's seven goals against Brazil was a "fluke", then surely NL's 5-1 was as well? |
|
|
|
|
|
#68 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Exactly. You can't really compare games in football, regular fans know that.
Last night's game was freakish, it was effectively all over in 30 minutes, largely as as a result of 6/7 minutes of suicidal defending by a Brazil. Germany could play Brazil every week for the next ten years and never achieve the same result. Germany played well, but they weren't outstanding..they didn't need to be. Tonight's game was a proper contest between two sides who set up to nullify the opposition's threats. Of course I enjoyed the Germany/Brazil game, it was the kind of oddity and result that will live in the memory for ever. But it wasn't football as I know it. ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#69 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
|
Quote:
Based on what we saw of Spain in the opening two matches (two games, two defeats and 7 goals conceded), had that version of Spain shown up to face Germany last night and conceded early, I think Germany would easily have put five goals past them.
Nobody has explained yet either why NL have totally failed to replicate that blistering 45 minutes against Spain. If Germany's seven goals against Brazil was a "fluke", then surely NL's 5-1 was as well? How come Messi didn't perform tonight ? If he was fully fit, it's a mystery, both to himself, his manager and the rest of the team. But that's what makes football (and other sports) so fascinating, there are usually no answers despite what all the pundits will have us believe. |
|
|
|
|
|
#70 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
I just think you're trying to turn football into some kind of exact science that can be measured from game to game. The Netherlands will never be able to replicate those 45 minutes again because it's impossible. All they can do is set up in the same way, using the same tactics and possibly the same personnel, and hope it works.
How come Messi didn't perform tonight ? If he was fully fit, it's a mystery, both to himself, his manager and the rest of the team. But that's what makes football (and other sports) so fascinating, there are usually no answers despite what all the pundits will have us believe. |
|
|
|
|
|
#71 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 13,814
|
Quote:
Yes, but what led to the "suicidal defending"?. It was the fact that there was a team in this tournament capable of going 2-0 in front against Brazil at home in the first 20 minutes. We saw shots of people in tears and in shock in the stands that Brazil could be trailing 2-0. I bet you anything the Netherlands wouldn't have scored twice in the opening 20 minutes against the Brazilians.....a semi final against them would have been a *far* sterner test than a first round match against Spain where the Dutch didn't even need to win on the night.
Why did Brazil collapse like that ?..nobody knows. I expect they will analyse over and over again, and find an excuse for each of those goals. It will probably never happen to them again, but there's no comfort in that. Would the Netherlands have been able to do the same ?..we will never know. Sometimes it's all down to that butterfly flapping it's wings in some Amazonian rain forest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#72 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Brazil went a goal down after 11 minutes. Poor defending but nothing extraordinary about that. Then came that freakish period when Brazil just went to pieces and conceded four more goals in 7 crazy minutes..Germany scored in the 23, 24, 26 and 29th minutes.
Why did Brazil collapse like that ?..nobody knows. I expect they will analyse over and over again, and find an excuse for each of those goals. It will probably never happen to them again, but there's no comfort in that. Would the Netherlands have been able to do the same ?..we will never know. Sometimes it's all down to that butterfly flapping it's wings in some Amazonian rain forest. ![]() I would argue that Germany were the only team in the tournament who could do this to Brazil and make them look mediocre. I thought Netherlands and Argentina looked rather ordinary tonight and I cannot conceive that either would be good enough to score two early goals against Brazil and then add another five : the Netherlands had one solitary shot on target tonight during 120 minutes of play. |
|
|
|
|
|
#73 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
|
Quote:
Well that's where Eloratings are able to come into play and they tell us that Germany's 7-1 demolition of Brazil was a far more impressive performance than Holland's 5-1 win over Spain.....the Dutch may well have won tonight, but I have my doubts they could have been 7-0 up with ten minutes to go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#74 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,620
|
Quote:
Germany beat the worst Brazilian side to ever pull on the jersey. It wasn't like they had to work that hard for the goals either. The Holland vs Spain result was Holland dismantling the current World Cup winners and good defenders, not mugs like David Luiz and Marcelo.
But Spain lost 2-0 to Chile in the next match and then Chile were brushed aside 2-0 by the Netherlands in Match 3, which suggest the Spanish team that showed up in this tournament were no great shakes at all. |
|
|
|
|
|
#75 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,578
|
Quote:
I must be watching a different World Cup altogether, let alone different matches.
You have to realise footballers are not robots. How Holland and Argentina have planned tactically to combat Messi and Robben respectively is not something that can be played out or explained through a review of ELO stats. |
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04.




