Messi isn't in the same league as Pirlo

Pirlo has been a great player, but what a ridiculous statement. Messi has been unplayable in literally hundreds of games, including many against top opposition, the World Cup isn't the be all and end all, despite that, he's done alright in this tournament and helped his team get to the final. His four world player awards are unprecedented and rightfully so.

Pirlo lifted the World Cup and was player of the match three times in that WC, including in the magnificent semi-final against Germany and equally great final against France. He also single-handedly led Italy to the Euro 2012 final and was man of the tournament.

It's difficult to compare Pirlo to Messi because they are different types of players, but I would prefer to have Pirlo (at his best) on my team than Messi. Pirlo's eye for a pass and ability to control the game from virtual stand still is unrivaled. His ability to take free kicks and corners is probably the best in the world. He is also a lot cooler than Messi

So you're discounting club football completely then? I don't mean any offence, but do you actually watch football outside of world cups and other international tournaments?

Pirlo is great and I'm not discounting his career at all, but he's not in the class of Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane etc.. how many top ten lists would be make?

Diego Forlan was player of the tournament at the last World Cup, with such criteria surely he has a claim of being better than Messi also?

People was always jump on the chance to say he is over rated, still the best current player in the world.

I'm a Bayern Munich fan. I'm not discounting club football, but the international stage is the biggest one of all. Messi is a great player, no one can deny that, but Zidane or Pirlo made more impact in the national team whilst still winning the Champions League with their clubs. However, it might just be Messi's year. If he lifts the cup in Brazil he will be hailed as Argentina's best player of all time (which I still think he is not).

I don't think Forlan was ever better than Messi and last WC was shite anyway, however, I do think there is a case to be made for Suarez as best player in the world at the moment.

The Champions league is a much fairer way of judging a player. Messi doesn't have to win a World Cup to be regarded as one of the best players ever, Ronaldo also. You just have to actually watch them on a regular basis, stats aside, to see how good they are.

This. I hate the people who says that a player has to win a World Cup to be considered one of the greats. What chance does Ronaldo realistically have of ever winning a World Cup when he's surrounded by some very ordinary players internationally? Poor Gareth Bale doesn't stand a chance of ever playing in a World Cup so that must rule him out of ever being considered good in the future.

You only have to watch Messi and Ronaldo in flight with the ball to see just how good they are, it's just glued to their feet.

Good grief. Did you actually watch the match?

If anyone carried Argentina through that game it was Mascherano, and he played most of it with a banging headache and a broken arsehole.

I'd rather judge a player by what they do over the course of a career playing the best of the best in the best European leagues and the Champions League, not a one-off game against the likes of Iran and Nigeria.

He is the real star for me at this WC. If he is injured it will be almost impossible for Argentina to win. Him and Vlaar for Holland were outstanding in that semi-final.

Surely the fact that teams identify these players and mark them out of the games is a testament to just how good they are?

Even if you were

it would be hard to ridicule you for saying so, he is most certainly 'one' of them

A standard WC ( Only 7 games) doesn't determine wether your the worlds greatest ever or not, besides it's a smashing accolade though to have provided his team with 4 goals despite his rather average form

he's managed to at least pipe up when very much needed due to his team's incapability, he can't be expected to take all the burden, especially when you look at some of the quality players they've got

Both Zidane and Pirlo have won the Champions League though Plus the World Cup and led their teams to the Euro final/win.

Pirlo is a different type of player to Messi, so it is very difficult to compare the two, but come on... Messi is not on par with the great Zinedine Zidane. I'm not saying he is not a great player, but he is no Maradona or Zidane for me.

I smell something here and its not jealousy.

I'm a huge Pirlo fan, but Messi's in a completely different world no matter how you try to spin it.

I really do believe history gets conveniently rewritten where certain older players are concerned, and the goalposts constantly get shifted around when it comes to Messi. it's funny, for instance, how 98 and 02 are remembered as Zidane's and Ronaldo's World Cups, when I distinctly remember them being poor and average at best respectively for most of those tournaments. and, because I was only 6 and obviously couldn't fully appreciate what I was watching at the time, I'm also starting to question the sacred cow that is Maradona's World Cup in 86. for those older than me, was he dazzlingly brilliant in every game, or did he just put together some incredibly decisive (and mostly spectacular) moments, the likes of some of which just hadn't been seen before? if it's the former, then fair enough, but if it's the latter then is it really fair for Messi's current campaign to be compared so unfavourably against it? the games against both England (where we have to remember that one of those goals was fraudulent) and Belgium are obviously well-remembered, and I know he was held very quiet for the large part of the final v Germany (until the moment he again proved decisive), but what about the games against South Korea, Bulgaria, and Uruguay? I'd love to fish out some match reports written during the tournament and compare them to everything written after it, in order to try and make a judgement for myself on just how much holds true.

I also think Messi has become a victim of his own ability to pull off some of the most incredible things on such an unprecedentedly consistent basis, and in doing so makes them appear routine, and then gets hammered whenever he's not doing so. there simply shouldn't be this number of caveats and asterisks raised against his achievements at this stage of his career. and if he's going to be penalised for not doing ALL the things that others have previously done between them, then it's only fair that the reverse is also applied, and others are retrospectively penalised for all the things he's done that they never came close to. no-one else is being required to tick every single possible box, so why is he?

Just is like saying what chance would ronaldo have had he not been in man utd or madrid what chance he would of had. Portugal has been a major team since 2000, they are as good as Argentina in those period. Forlan was voted the best player because he played the best in the tournament. In same way ribery was voted the best European player based on his bayern success. Messi has been the best Argentina player in this tournament. His moment of magic beat Nigeria, Iran, Bosnia and Switzerland. He did not underperformance against holland, we can make the same case for robben in that match. Both players were closed down, snider whipped his crosses and free kicks over more that 6 times which doesn't mean anything. For me performing for the national team is more difficult than performing for a club where your surrounded by world class players with money.

Yar, some of that Argentina squad are on minimum wage.

I agree with this. It's easy to look like a superstar when you have the world's best and most expensive players pass you the ball. It's much more difficult to look like a star in a national team when you are usually surrounded by mostly useless individuals. Look at Uruguay with and without Suarez - the team is completely unrecognisable! Does anyone remember France in 2002 and 2010 without Zidane? Almost the same selection of players but an entirely different team. Italy in 2010 without Pirlo is another example.

I love Cristiano Ronaldo, but he was absolutely useless this World Cup and cannot blame his team mates. He himself played rubbish 80% of the time.

As I already said, Messi was very important to Argentina this WC because he stepped up at the crucial moments, but to say we should only look at club football to determine all time greats is wrong. Only one all time great never played in a World Cup - George Best. Everyone else is remembered by what they did for their country.

What are you on?
Thuram, Henry, Desailly, Petit, Makelele, Djorkaeff, Viera and several other big names.

Can you go a post without mentioning Pirlo?

Err... what are you on You don't need to tell me that France had great teams on paper, but that collection of great players couldn't get out of the group without Zidane. Zidane was there in 1998 and 2006, but not there in 2002 and 2010. Can you spot a difference in their performance?

As for Pirlo...

BIB - I think you are the one rewriting history. 1998 was absolutely Zidane's World Cup. He was magnificent and it was obvious to people at the time. That's why Zidane was best player of the year in 1998. The one game in which France were poor was the one Zidane was banned from. Zidane was equally maginificent in the 2006 World Cup and finished his career in style

Ronaldo was great in both 1998 and 2002, but in 2002 it stood out even more when compared to the terrible teams around him. He led a very average Brazil team with a terrible manager to World Cup victory.

Agree with your point on zidane (in addition being a cl runners up with JUVE), but disagree with brazil being a poor average team, Rivaldo my 2nd favourite player of that time after zidane was spectacular individual, only reason I started supporting Barca was Rivaldo, he was immense in 2002 as well as 1998 scoring brazil's best goals against belgium. Ofcourse one cannot even dare to compare today's Brazil team with that amazing Brazil. Ronaldo was great. Messi not comparable to Maradona, but definately has carried this argentina team. Iran would given nightmare's defensively to any big guns in this world cup which was only stopped by Messi's wonder goal.

Henry was not even a starter for France in 1998, he scored all his 3 goals in the 2 group games coming of as a sub, did not play in the knockout rounds, I think he was too young at the time. The French were not seen as top 5 favorites during 1998 but this special man called zidane had a special impact, including thuram who was brilliant defensively.

Oh I agree with you entirely. That Brazil team had legendary individuals, but as a team they were pretty average. Scolari's only tactic is to let the superstars in his team sort it out, so that's exactly what they did in 2002. Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos won the World Cup without any kind of management because they were just so good and everyone else was pretty rubbish that year.

I don't think the current squad is fit to even wear the same colours as the Brazil team of 2002.