i just wonder if holland have been traumatised by 1974 and maybe 1978

In 74 they should have won, and were the best team. In 78 they were not the best team, but got by Italy, and had a chance to win the final with the last kick of the game.

Since then we have seen beautiful football, without them being able to win the thing.

Now in the last 2 world cups, they have retreated into horrible defensive shell. They were horrible in the final against spain. This time, Instead of trying to beat argentina, they played for a draw. The team that played argentina just was not recognizable as the team that hammered spain in the first game.

Is it psychological? Fear of losing?

They didn't play for a draw against Argentina.

Err... If they had played beautiful attacking football against Argentina they would have lost by A LOT. The Dutch did everything right tactically. Robben was not allowed to move with the brilliantly tight Argentina midfield and defence. I blame Sneijder for their defeat. With Robben out of play he was the one who could have made a difference. Unfortunately, he chose to have the worst game of his career in a World Cup semi-final.

Read the book 'Brilliant Orange' by David Winner. A fantastic insight into the Dutch psyche. '74 still haunts them to this day. Even winning the Euro's in 1988 failed to heal the wounds

The game against Spain was just one of those peculiar things that happen in football. Robben was on fire, and Spain appeared shell-shocked. I don't think Holland entered the WC with a team capable of playing "the beautiful game". They did remarkably well with the talent they've got, and with a bit more luck might have reached the final. In my opinion, they played better as a team than the players appear as individuals throughout. You can't ask for more than that.

The main problem the Dutch always have is that the players manage to fall out at absolugely crucial moments. If the rumours are true that Van Persie and Robben fell out before the semi-final it would be history repeating itself over and over again. The day the Dutch manage to have a united camp will be the day they win the World Cup. It may never happen though.

Bringing on Krull for the q/f penalty shoot out was hailed as a master stroke by pundits. TK is a brilliant shot stopper, and it worked. But running out of subs and not being able to do it in the s/f handed Argentina a massive psychological boost, and it showed in the body language of the Dutch. TK should have been on from the start, or RVP kept on. The chances of his late substitution leading to a goal were far less than TK coming up trumps.

I thought they did. After 10 minutes i posted they were playing for pens. They were always playing not to lose, rather than playing to win. If not playing for pens, then happy for pens.

Germans play to win, i think.

Thanks for the pointer. Not heard of the book.