Maradona wanted more than anyone for Germany to win, so Messi wouldn't become greater than him

Anyway, as much as people try to convince us that Messi is the best player that ever lived, he most definitely is not even the best Argentine player and most definitely was not even the best Argentine player of this tournament. It's some kind of bizarre obsession with Messi. He is a great player no doubt, but to say he is as good as Maradona is just silly. Argentina needed Maradona last night.

Teams win matches, a PL league manager can, given enough resources, build a team around their best players.

A National Manager can only do that if the country has such support players.

The need to lay into Messi now is meaningless. Leave the man alone.

They needed a outlet for Messi. They were too limited in attack and with Aguero and Di Maria constantly injured/not fit, their front line, which could have been deadly, was greatly diminshed in this World Cup, hence the lack of goals. Messi needed an equal partner in this WC, and sadly he didn't get one.

Yeah yeah... Messi can only shine if he has the world's best players around him.

Suarez had a much more rubbish Uruguay team and Neymar was playing for a joke Brazil side. Yet both players managed to shine.

Yesterday, the Germans left Messi to his own devices. He could have run riot and taken the game by storm. Instead, he was almost invisible. He is a good player, but not good enough.

He's the best player to play the game. It's not as easy as just 'left him to his own devices' that's naive.

After the Holland game I actually defended Messi on this forum because Vlaar didn't give him a chance and Holland disabled him completely. Germany did not do that last night. He was not covered like he was in the game against Holland. He just didn't step up. I feel sorry for him because he knew he didn't deserve to be player of the tournament and didn't want to collect the award.

He most certainly is not the best player to play the game...

I actually feel sorry for the bloke (yes, I know, he gets paid loads, etc etc). On one side you have the media hyping him up whenever Argentina play, making out that they are a one man team (they aren't!). Then on the other side, if he doesn't put in a superman-esk performance then you get the usual "Maradona would have done better", "greatest player ever HA HA" type comments. I enjoy watching La Liga and from what I saw in recent months he clearly wasn't anywhere near to being 100% fit due to suffering hamstring injuries. It's hardly surprising when he (and other players, too) turn up and look way off their best. When you take that into consideration, four goals / one assist and a World Cup Final isn't too shabby.

One of his biggest achievements in the game will be coming up ... highest goalscorer ever in La Liga, at the age of 27. That's one hell of a record.

He really is. Look at his career, football didn't just start a month ago you know.

I'm sure Messi would sacrifice all his club records to have scored last night and lifted that cup for Argentina. There is no player (bar Best who was the first football popstar) on the all time greatest list who did not play well for their country. There are some who never won the World Cup, but there was no doubt about their performances on the world stage.

Messi may be the greatest club player ever, but he will never be on the same list as Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini, Beckenbauer etc.. and he is not handsome enough to be there alongside Best

With that logic Stéphane Guivarc'h and Kleberson must be up there with the best players ever? Players have never been fitter, faster, stronger or more tactically aware than they are now. Messi simply outshines anyone on your list.

I think that Messi is up there with those you mentioned, he did not deliver in this World Cup but Argentina would not even have qualified without his goals.

As for Maradona - I will NEVER acknowledge that he was great - he spent a lot of his playing career on drugs. Whilst they were not 'performance related' drugs as such, they were ones that would make him high. Any player of such prodigious talent high on drugs would be fuelled with confidence and totally believe that they were the best player that ever lived, thereby making them performance enhancing in my view.
Totally despicable man who seems to have reinvented his past

In your opinion.

The desperation of die hard Messi fans on this thread makes me laugh. Maradona is now not even a great player... let's try to re-write history in its entirety in order for everyone to bow down before the football messiah Lionel Messi. Maybe he even invented the game?

Maradona is one of the greatest players to ever live, arguably the greatest depending on your preference.

Messi is an absolute phenomenon who is yet to boss a World Cup in the way others have which many regard as one of the necessities to be in the elite all-time best, but also has plenty of time yet to do so.

Let's all stop being fannies.

Well yes since I said it.

I think that makes the argument for Maradona being the the more influential player. Nobody doubts that Messi is one of the greatest players the game has seen, but he has done it surrounded by other, almost equally great players. In that way he is similar to Pele. Maradona had the ability to turn fairly average teams into great ones. I think that's the difference and where Messi doesn't quite measure up.
But the thread is essentially about this World Cup tournament and I just don't think Messi was the most outstanding player, not even for Argentina as others have said.

It's not that Maradona wasn't great, it's that Messi is better. Some people seem to think football begins and ends in a world cup ignoring the 4 years in between.

You're talking like it's a fact. It isn't.

Messi wasn't even the best Argie, Mascherano was.

FIFA are jokes. Gotta love them *****.

You must be new here.

James Rodriguez couldn't even be bothered turning up to collect his award and Neuer won golden gloves when he didn't even get them dirty in the whole tournament. These awards are like sponsors man of the match awards, pointless.

I understand your point, but the fact is, our Premiership is made of a number of good teams. Messi to be fair only has to score against two (at best) decent defences (Real Madrid and after this season just gone, Atletico.) as there really are only three teams in his league.

Good number of teams like who? The ones that couldn't get to the champions league final or the europa final? You are severely overestimating how good the premier league is.

Clearly the strongest league is the German Bundesliga - look how many players from that league made the semi-finals and won the cup. Players from the Bundesliga are always physically much fitter than those from other European leagues.

Well even if it's three it;s still better than La Liga!