I seem to be having an attack of being fair today but I think what most people say when they say they'd say it to the person's face is that, if they were confronted on having said it they would admit it to the person's face rather than deny or lie about it.
'Well at least Helen's upfront ' - Can we knock this myth on the head ?
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Originally Posted by AOTB:
“Nah she seems pretty upfront, and yet can still have the good judgement to confide with her friends in confidence too. Marvellous to see someone use their judgement and be able to do both.
Best of both worlds.”
“Nah she seems pretty upfront, and yet can still have the good judgement to confide with her friends in confidence too. Marvellous to see someone use their judgement and be able to do both.
Best of both worlds.”
She doesn't do both. She frequently talks about things which the target doesn't even get to know about.
I wonder if she actually did tell Ashleigh that Ashleigh apparently fancies Steven.
I never believed the myth of her being upfront and honest to begin with.
I suppose at least she's a consistent liar and hypocrite.
I suppose at least she's a consistent liar and hypocrite.
Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.
Originally Posted by madiain28:
“Helen is neither upfront or honest. Being upfront is not shouting over others so only your viewpoint is heard, intimidating people and belittling others. Being upfront is about taking someone aside and discussing your viewpoint as well as listening to the other person and being able to challenge someone in a positive way. Nothing Helen does is upfront shouting and screaming at someone whenever you have an audience and she always needs the audience of her spineless followers beside her chuckling beside her. The reason it never kicked off with little Chris was she knows he is not intimidated by her or immature enough to play into her behaviours. All her behaviours are very childlike and because most of the housemates especially Christopher respond to her childish behaviours they too lose the ability to deal with them so resort to childish behaviours or quickly backdown and retreat to avoid it escalating. And while this often seems like the better idea just to get out if the situation it reinforces Helen's behaviours that she is right. It's only when she is pulled in by big brother and reprimanded basically like a child being told off that she can then go and reflect on her actions. She then can apologise but takes the stance that " I know when I'm in the wrong and I can admit to what I did wrong" which is total twaddle as she needs the authoritative figure of BB to point it out. Her lack of respect for others means it doesn't really matter what or how she treats them as she justifies herself by constantly then going round her groupies pointing out her perception of the incident knowing on the majority of occasions none of them will challenge her in any way. Mark on a few occasions and Winston have pointed out things to her but she always excuses her behaviour deflecting onto others.
What's interesting is reading others viewpoints and the childlike perception of an eye for eye again as a justification that two wrongs make a right. What's a scary reality is more and more people seem to think that is the way forward.”
“Helen is neither upfront or honest. Being upfront is not shouting over others so only your viewpoint is heard, intimidating people and belittling others. Being upfront is about taking someone aside and discussing your viewpoint as well as listening to the other person and being able to challenge someone in a positive way. Nothing Helen does is upfront shouting and screaming at someone whenever you have an audience and she always needs the audience of her spineless followers beside her chuckling beside her. The reason it never kicked off with little Chris was she knows he is not intimidated by her or immature enough to play into her behaviours. All her behaviours are very childlike and because most of the housemates especially Christopher respond to her childish behaviours they too lose the ability to deal with them so resort to childish behaviours or quickly backdown and retreat to avoid it escalating. And while this often seems like the better idea just to get out if the situation it reinforces Helen's behaviours that she is right. It's only when she is pulled in by big brother and reprimanded basically like a child being told off that she can then go and reflect on her actions. She then can apologise but takes the stance that " I know when I'm in the wrong and I can admit to what I did wrong" which is total twaddle as she needs the authoritative figure of BB to point it out. Her lack of respect for others means it doesn't really matter what or how she treats them as she justifies herself by constantly then going round her groupies pointing out her perception of the incident knowing on the majority of occasions none of them will challenge her in any way. Mark on a few occasions and Winston have pointed out things to her but she always excuses her behaviour deflecting onto others.
What's interesting is reading others viewpoints and the childlike perception of an eye for eye again as a justification that two wrongs make a right. What's a scary reality is more and more people seem to think that is the way forward.”
Great post. Every word true.
Originally Posted by yorkie11:
“Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.”
“Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.”
Have yet to see anything remotely resembling the behaviour of that vile woman. There are no other HMs as bad as her...perhaps Pauline but she didnt stay long enough
Originally Posted by iceice:
“Have yet to see anything remotely resembling the behaviour of that vile woman. There are no other HMs as bad as her...perhaps Pauline but she didnt stay long enough”
“Have yet to see anything remotely resembling the behaviour of that vile woman. There are no other HMs as bad as her...perhaps Pauline but she didnt stay long enough”
Ashleigh's behaviour towards Kim was bad i.e saying Steven was too good for her. Winston and Mark were bad with their aggression towards Marlon ganging up on him after he pressed the button. Toya was pretty aggressive and yes Pauline was the worst.
Not saying Helen is an angel, but her behaviour is judged more harshly than anyone elses in my opinion (probably due to her past) and Jale is right in that she does get egged on by Ash, Winston and Steven.
Originally Posted by yorkie11:
“Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.”
“Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.”
No, people are talking about the subject of the title of the thread.
Originally Posted by yorkie11:
“Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.”
“Basically anything Helen does is awful and worse, according to many on digital spy, but the same behaviour in such as Ashleigh, Mark or Winston is applauded.”
Yes. Always in the wrong, always in the wrong, always in the wrong......
Originally Posted by didgital_spy:
“I think these qualities are still valued in normal day to day life as much as ever, but on a TV show such qualities are considered 'boring' as we are watching for entertainment, not for how good or bad a person is.”
“I think these qualities are still valued in normal day to day life as much as ever, but on a TV show such qualities are considered 'boring' as we are watching for entertainment, not for how good or bad a person is.”
Funny how everyone just ignores this because it doesn't go along with the anti-Helen agenda that this thread is promoting. There is clearly no interest in logically discussing this topic, it is just another excuse for people who hate Helen to moan and cry about her
It's up there with "what you see is what you get", "wears her heart on her sleeve", "just too honest for her own good" "she's real" and "tells it like it is" in the tedious BB cliches.
Most of them have been said about Helen funnily enough.
Most of them have been said about Helen funnily enough.
Originally Posted by Flight815-23D:
“More like it's maturity. MOST people behave like that when they're young and stupid, and after it bites them in the backside enough times, they grow up and realize it's a life fail. Apparently Helen still hasn't matured past 21.”
“More like it's maturity. MOST people behave like that when they're young and stupid, and after it bites them in the backside enough times, they grow up and realize it's a life fail. Apparently Helen still hasn't matured past 21.”
Totally agree with this.
Originally Posted by yorkie11:
“Ashleigh's behaviour towards Kim was bad i.e saying Steven was too good for her. Winston and Mark were bad with their aggression towards Marlon ganging up on him after he pressed the button. Toya was pretty aggressive and yes Pauline was the worst.
Not saying Helen is an angel, but her behaviour is judged more harshly than anyone elses in my opinion (probably due to her past) and Jale is right in that she does get egged on by Ash, Winston and Steven.”
“Ashleigh's behaviour towards Kim was bad i.e saying Steven was too good for her. Winston and Mark were bad with their aggression towards Marlon ganging up on him after he pressed the button. Toya was pretty aggressive and yes Pauline was the worst.
Not saying Helen is an angel, but her behaviour is judged more harshly than anyone elses in my opinion (probably due to her past) and Jale is right in that she does get egged on by Ash, Winston and Steven.”
It's nothing to do with her past; it's because her behaviour is worse. I have yet to see anyone else go straight for the jugular in arguments by targeting people's insecurity, and relish doing so in the way that she does.
Originally Posted by Virgil Tracy:
“people keep saying that at least Helen is upfront with people , she doesn't bitch behind their backs etc.
no .
being an aggresive foul mouthed yob isn't being 'upfront' , it's just being an aggressive foul mouthed yob .
as for not bitching behind people's backs - of course she does - Jale had no idea about what Helen had said about her , Ashleigh heard her and kimbot bitching in the toilets , she never owned up to it , she's doing the same with Biannca now and she's denied it .
she told her boys never to trust Marlon , she certainly never said that to Marlon”
“people keep saying that at least Helen is upfront with people , she doesn't bitch behind their backs etc.
no .
being an aggresive foul mouthed yob isn't being 'upfront' , it's just being an aggressive foul mouthed yob .
as for not bitching behind people's backs - of course she does - Jale had no idea about what Helen had said about her , Ashleigh heard her and kimbot bitching in the toilets , she never owned up to it , she's doing the same with Biannca now and she's denied it .
she told her boys never to trust Marlon , she certainly never said that to Marlon”
Very well said.
And now she's found a kindred spirit in the equally detestable Biannca.
It doesn't bear thinking about.
Why do people often assume that anyone who said they are upfront, honest or 'tell it to your face' must automatically have zero filter who cannot show any restraint whatsoever at any time in their life ever. Either that or they are a liar if there dare to have a conversation that is NOT to someone's face.
Classic lose lose and it's never that black and white.
It's all too easy to write people off as being rude, obnoxious etc if they say something to their face, or a liar/ bitch / two faced if they don't.
There's a massive sliding scale of 'somewhere in-between' the 2 extremes here.
I put it to you good people of DS, that it is incredibly rare (if not non existent) to find someone who will either tell everything to someone's face or nothing at all.
Classic lose lose and it's never that black and white.
It's all too easy to write people off as being rude, obnoxious etc if they say something to their face, or a liar/ bitch / two faced if they don't.
There's a massive sliding scale of 'somewhere in-between' the 2 extremes here.
I put it to you good people of DS, that it is incredibly rare (if not non existent) to find someone who will either tell everything to someone's face or nothing at all.
Originally Posted by Dangermoose:
“It enrages me that people even consider "being upfront" as a good thing !!! Is this a generation thing or do any of the more mature viewers think so too?
.”
“It enrages me that people even consider "being upfront" as a good thing !!! Is this a generation thing or do any of the more mature viewers think so too?
.”
Yeah a generation thing, They've watched too much American TV and been influenced by it, They've lost all their Britishness.
Originally Posted by JillyA:
“Says some things to their faces and bitches in private too! Perhaps BB could make a montage of Helen talking about others and show it to the house as part of a task. Perhaps in the week where miraculously she doesn't have protection of the free pass to the final. Oh sorry wait - that's not gonna happen!
I too agree with Dangermoose. It must be generational. I believe that being upfront is not necessary. If you can't say anything nice, say nothing!”
“Says some things to their faces and bitches in private too! Perhaps BB could make a montage of Helen talking about others and show it to the house as part of a task. Perhaps in the week where miraculously she doesn't have protection of the free pass to the final. Oh sorry wait - that's not gonna happen!
I too agree with Dangermoose. It must be generational. I believe that being upfront is not necessary. If you can't say anything nice, say nothing!”
LOL great post
Her and Biannca are cut from the same cloth , both of them bare faced liars - "No we weren't bitching in the toilets "
Helen's bitching about her sidekick Kimbot now (last night on BOTS ) .
.
Helen's bitching about her sidekick Kimbot now (last night on BOTS ) .
.
well finally they exposed a tiny sample of her 2 faced bitching , but of course she can't accept it , will cry and deflect and deny , she can't even be upfront with herself .
This is a woman who slept with famous people for money, where discretion was an understood, had no qualms about selling the stories despite the pain and upset it caused those families and then became so dangerous to her customers two had to take out high court injunctions against her, setting dangerous precedents for freedom of information and the press for the public.
Her stance of being "upfront" actually changed the course of legal history and had hugely damaging effects on the UK's notion of a constitutional democracy.
Why anyone sees her brand of "honesty" as a virtue or that this is still being debated as a positive is beyond me.
The woman is scum, truly. An evil piece of work, a classic psychopath, absolutely no moral qualms or notion of others pain as long as she gets her way.
Her stance of being "upfront" actually changed the course of legal history and had hugely damaging effects on the UK's notion of a constitutional democracy.
Why anyone sees her brand of "honesty" as a virtue or that this is still being debated as a positive is beyond me.
The woman is scum, truly. An evil piece of work, a classic psychopath, absolutely no moral qualms or notion of others pain as long as she gets her way.
Originally Posted by Vadmun:
“The woman is scum, truly. An evil piece of work, a classic psychopath, absolutely no moral qualms or notion of others pain as long as she gets her way.”
“The woman is scum, truly. An evil piece of work, a classic psychopath, absolutely no moral qualms or notion of others pain as long as she gets her way.”
I don't think you actually know what a psychopath is.
The rest of your 'assessment' I also found to be severely lacking when it came to having any semblance of balance or perspective to it.
Still, I'm sure others will lap it up regardless, so it's not all bad.
Originally Posted by AOTB:
“Nah she seems pretty upfront, and yet can still have the good judgement to confide with her friends in confidence too. Marvellous to see someone use their judgement and be able to do both.
Best of both worlds.”
“Nah she seems pretty upfront, and yet can still have the good judgement to confide with her friends in confidence too. Marvellous to see someone use their judgement and be able to do both.
Best of both worlds.”
The flip side of Winston day??
How often have I found......."..I am honest, I will say it to their faces "............equates with downright rude remarks said in the unkindest possible way.......
Helen is as guilty as any (or all) of the housemates in speaking about people behind their backs or to other people.
They all do it in there. It would be impossible not to speak about other people. The environment is small and they haven't had contact with the outside world. No-one could go into that house and not find themselves talking about people.
All this 'upfront' business is Helen attempting to cement her place as honest and caring, or someone to trust in the house. It's about giving her credibility and status. And it's part of the game.
Anyone admitting they talk about people is taking a risk in standing out to a voracious group, when the reality is they all do it..!
Hypocrisy is rife, just like in the outside world.
They all do it in there. It would be impossible not to speak about other people. The environment is small and they haven't had contact with the outside world. No-one could go into that house and not find themselves talking about people.
All this 'upfront' business is Helen attempting to cement her place as honest and caring, or someone to trust in the house. It's about giving her credibility and status. And it's part of the game.
Anyone admitting they talk about people is taking a risk in standing out to a voracious group, when the reality is they all do it..!
Hypocrisy is rife, just like in the outside world.
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