Oh I don't know if they played back every single thing that she said would have the desired effect that everyone would want. Helen seems to me to be the type that would put her hands to her ears and shut it out.

That one statement (with the lie in it as she thought) was quite clever in that at least it got through to her enough for some self-reflection.

The 'big brother' in the diary room said she HAD SAID ALL OF IT in last nights episode. No lies in there.

Yeah some of the really vile, horrible name calling and derogatory sh*t about everyone around her. Now THAT I would like to have seen!

I know. And I did say as much later in the thread

To whose benefit? Helen's?

The thing is, Helen was apparently sober when she said these things.



at 26:50 or so "what a f*****g tramp..." She does say the word tramp. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22...th-july_people

In context or out of context, I think everyone is missing a big point here...... how can Helen suggest anyone else is a tramp? Does she forget there are thousands of people watching on the outside who know all about her. The double standards / hypocrisy is outstanding.

I have nothing against prostitutes or escorts here, let me make this clear, and I am not commenting one way or the other on her previous profession (but plenty would!)

Every aspect of her personality is like this. One massive double standard. (ie when she had a go at Chris for his comment, when they were also reading out her comments?!?!?!?)

Sometimes sarcasm doesn't come across quite right in writing I'm afraid.

BIB - the beginning of Helen's conversation.

My recollection is that it went something along the lines of this (not verbatim):-

To Ash: "OMG I can't believe we kissed last night. What a forking tramp." i.e. she was referring to herself as the tramp.

Then she remembered what Kim had done and added the bit about "I know they did that but...." as if to clear up (if somewhat illogically) that although Kim had sex that was okay but Helen herself was a tramp for canoodling.

That is how I remember that conversation. "Tramp" was about herself.

Well in that case, there's no defense for it other than if Helen herself learns from it. She's the only one who can benefit and improve herself. Hopefully for her own sake.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I genuinely got it wrong and admitted so later in the thread. I thought at the time of writing that it was amusing in that she omitted everything else from her head but only concentrated on a part of it that she thought was a lie.

Hope that makes sense.

I have to admit, after reading your post, I listened to the clip again several times and would agree, she's talking about herself in comparison to Steven and Kimberly (as in, I think about what we - Ash and I - did and think 'what a f'ing tramp) I know that sounds awful because they've done, they are together' ... it does seem she was referring to herself in relation to snogging Ash.

"When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong" Dirty Dancing

Haha....puts hands up in ownership too and joins in singing

Is that you Baby?

This. Those may have been the actual words Helen used, however not only the context but the flat tone in which the words were delivered rendered the comments open to a derogatory interpretation.

Under the same circumstances, most people would have had the same reaction. Think of when Steven sighed and said 'poor cow' when hearing for the first time that Kimberly wouldn't be returning to the house. His intention wasn't to demean her (reducing Kimbot to cattle status); he was expressing concern - in his own way.

In legal terms, Helen's words fulfilled a bare actus reus requirement but, significantly, not the mens rea or 'intention' to vilify her friends... which is why she, understandably, didn't recognise those words as coming from her mouth - as they were reimagined by the Diary Room minions of BB.

So BB was indeed mischievous and devious and so IMO, under those circumstances, Helen's shock and denial was understandable.

I would agree with that

Very well put and seeing it from your point of view does indeed put some perspective to Helen's reaction to it.

The "tramps" comment was in the afternoon, the day after she snogged Ash. She was completely sober.

Yes you're right, however, what's your view of the above post? I think this could be the reason she was upset on hearing it played back as the context wasn't the way she meant it. I.e. referring to herself in that position as opposed to calling Kim a tramp. That said though, there's no excuse for the other derogatory things she's said.

And did all the other housemates - especially Steven - shout and call her a "c*nt" or a "tw*t" or a "backstabbing barsteward"? I think not.

Yes, no excuse for the offensive name calling. However, she's not the only housemate who is guilty of it, is she?

Well far as i know 2 or 3 people there have used cu** one being Helen the other Ash and maybe Stephen did once and Marlon. Ok so four maybe lol But Definitely Helen and Ash have more than once each.

They need to play them into the house. Bring her down a peg or two.

Plastics actually believe she didn't say it.

I found it funny myself.
Especially when they played the clips of her saying those things to us viewers.

Yeah and the gradual realization on her face in the diary room that she did remember she said those things after all lol