To be fair, Downton Abbey was more than likely commissioned due to success of countless BBC 'Cosy' Sunday night period dramas that preceded it over many years.

Yes ITV took the risk investing in Downton Abbey, as any new drama is a risk. But lets not pretend that it bucked or created a period drama trend when it sits in a Tv landscape that was already long established.

I loved The Murder Game! I was so disappointed that it didn't become a hit. Had the best way to eliminate contestants. The Killer's Game. Wonderful stuff!

Watching The X Factor tonight I feel like it's back to its best. They've got the panel spot on and Mel B's honest comments are providing great moments. We've had plenty of comedy in the interaction between judges and the talent has improved in tonight's show with some good groups. It seems to be flowing better than last night's show.

I am watching XF for research purposes. They seem to be going with the comedy angle this year. Already put through a David Brent type of person who forgot the lyrics to the song. And showcased a weird double act.

We'll see how this is reflected in the ratings. Because theyre not really showcasing hugely talented vocal singers so far this series. Surprising because they only have 4 room auditions to pack in as many contestants as possible compared to the 7-8 room/arena auditions there used to be between series 1-9. So youd expect the room audition episodes to be more full of talented singers and less filler, not the other way round!

But it has led to greater investment in drama on both channels

BBC1 had been doing costume dramas for years and had Upstairs Downstairs (yes an old ITV hit) to bring back. That didn't work. Downton came along and became a phenomenon. It was only a risk for ITV as they didn't do much costume drama and were known for crime dramas. BBC1 also had a new drama starting the same year as Downton, a little something called Sherlock. Sherlock was another risk that paid off.

Much better tonight. Quite funny actually . Louis might be an idiot but he's defiantly produced some comedy gold moments.

I am absolutely loving The X Factor. Everything's slipped into the right place, all the right elements are there. It's hilarious in parts, that girl on just now from Paris... she made me cry laughing. God, the last 3 years (the Gary BORE-LOW era) of this show have been a total nightmare when you see just what a decent panel and better editing can do. Cowell's one-liners are so great. So many good soundbites from him as well as the other judges. "I can't take it anymore" Cheryl sighs (convincingly); "It was like something you'd hear at a zoo" Simon says, nonplussed.

And with the couple who auditioned who they only took one through from ... Simon saying Mel supported Geri when leaving the Spice Girls - and Mel saying "no I didn't because I was annoyed she left the group!" Amazing.

If this series doesn't revive the ratings nothing will - and to be honest I think it's going to be fine and bounce back no problem.

Where's the talent though? The live shows wont be interesting if there arent any good singers for viewers to be hooked in for.

Yes I have to say that the idea that ITV somehow invented costume drama with DA and that is responsible for all good drama that has followed it to be particularly daft.

Downton led to more investment coming in from abroad and doors being opened for British Drama worldwide. A costume drama that paid off for ITV after years of costume dramas failing on the channel.

Danny Cohen axed Zen and Lark Rise To Candleford to make way for Call The Midwife. A big risk for the channel and one that unexpectedly ended two hit Winter shows for ITV. Wild At Heart and Dancing On Ice.

ITV aren't the only channel taking risks.

There's been plenty of good enough talent (by XF's 10-year standards). It's easy to swipe saying there's no talent because people can't refer back to one audition they loved - people generally reveal their talent as time goes on in the contest.

There is no less talent this year than any other year. The clichéd 'there's just no talent' line is boring; this show is looking for potential talent and likes the 'needle in the haystack' / 'from rough diamond to shining star' approach - added to which it is an ENTERTAINMENT programme, not a stuffy too-serious, technical singing contest.

Yes. It is nonsense. They have done well with Downton but other channels were investing in drama and not just costume drama.

Mark Jefferies ‏@mirrorjeffers 9m
My main worry for X Factor is for an opening weekend of shows there's not actually many brilliant singers for live shows.

Neil Midgley ‏@NeilMidgley 9m
@mirrorjeffers Saving the big guns for next week’s fight with Strictly?

Mark Jefferies ‏@mirrorjeffers 6m
@NeilMidgley maybe. Also going heavy on fun/jokes auditions cos they think viewers missed that last year.

Neil Midgley ‏@NeilMidgley 2m
@mirrorjeffers I think they're right. nobody believes the jeopardy any more - strictly rates cos it's fun

boydhilton ‏@boydhilton 1m
@mirrorjeffers They can have as many good singers as they like, it won't help ratings. Needs characters. It's not The Voice. Thankfully.

Admit it! You've given in!!

It's clear they want journeys, they want progression and they don't want to open with a bang and fizzle out. The best XF artists have not started out perfect with show-stopping auditions, but grown into and alongside the process.

The groups already have decent options already IMO. Kitten could be a decent singer for the Girls category and she has a backstory they can push. Amy also has a story from yesteryear for the Girls while Chloe Jasmine has something about her with the Overs. They're obviously going to push Jay James so they'll have to hope he has a better voice than yesterday's audition.

The weakness lays in the boys category at the moment - we haven't had a stand out candidate there so really we should see at least one by the end of tonight's show. But entertainment wise, this show's been another strong one.

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No one can talk about the quality of the talent until after the Bootcamp eps IMO.

Even those who weren't incredible in Auditions (both room and arena) can shine at Bootcamp. Nerves, confidence increases and lots more can contribute to this. And viewers are satisfied by "oh look how far he's come" or "she's really transforming into a star."

So I personally reject any statements about the series' talent bank until after Bootcamp. And besides, if it's entertaining again (which it seems to be, well edited and lots of laughs) then the talent matters NOT anyway in the grand scheme of things.

But Samuel perhaps you should just wait until the end of the Arena auditions, as they are clearly saving a few of these room auditions for a "blowout second performance" - of course some potentials will flop in the arenas too, but that's all part of the circus

it has led to more drama on ITV no doubt. I don't think it has had an effect on the BBC Drama output be honest.

If only there was a dedicated thread where people could discuss X Factor. If only.

It's a massive show on British TV even nowadays. I am going to be sparing with my XF chat on this thread but I, like others, will defend it if people are firing arrows at it in here. The conversation is inevitable because of the show being the beast it is.

Maybe my dissertation should be focussed on "The Rise and Fall, but not quite Death, of The X Factor". Better search Google Scholar, first though...

Peter Fincham has said that Downton Abbey was a risk for ITV. I would suggest that they commissioned it based on the success of the film Gosford Park which was written by Downton writer Julian Fellowes and won him an Oscar.

The reason Downton does so well is because it's posh soap (and Julian Fellowes doesn't mind it being called that|) so it unites the costume drama audience and the soap audience.

I don't watch Downton but I'll bet it's a hundred times cheerier than those three miserable buggers that pollute the weekday pre-watershed schedules. I only have to see 10 seconds of any of the three of them and I'm angrier than an X Factor fan reading a SamuelW post.

Sorry - I bit at the 'research purposes' comment.