It's about brand. X Factor brand is damaged in the minds of a segment of the all time high audience. No amount of tinkering or indeed wholesale change will bring them back. I think EastEnders is in a similar position. You might get a quick flick on to a show but sustained viewing over a series is gone.

I wonder if rather than scheduling Christmas Day as 'comedy day' the BBC would have more success scheduling it as 'family day'. With the likes of Doctor, Miranda, Still Open All Hours and one-offs like Esio Trot, Boy in the Dress and maybe even Professor Branestawm and a decent enough selection of family films they potentially have a great day of family viewing that really only stumbles with EastEnders and maybe Mrs Brown's Boys. Although actually they could go for those two paired up in a 90 minute block from 9PM when the kids have gone to bed. It seems like building and promoting it as the perfect day of family viewing is the best way forward here and highlights that ITV's (prime time) schedule will in all probability just be soaps.

I don't think The X Factor's issue is a brand one. At least not overtly so. I think The X Factor's primary problem is that its an ageing format which is particularly problematic for a show that's built on appealing to younger viewers or being relevant or of the time. The X Factor's appeal was never built on the back of its judges or contestants. Not really. The shows appeal was built on it being a pop culture phenomena and there's really no way to sustain that without constantly evolving and changing and The X Factor hasn't done that. Its stagnated. Without wishing to sound extremely ageist I suspect The X Factor's primary problem at this point is that its being run by a man in his mid-50s.

I'd also point out that this is why in theory at least Strictly could potentially run forever. No doubt it'll get smaller as the years roll on but because its not a show tied to being relevant it can just keep chugging along as a fun gentle entertainment for older viewers.

Men Behaving Badly?!

That's the story of the night for me. Astonishingly poor rating. Out of date repeats of TV Burp would do at least three times as well as that, surely.

"Deserve to win" after two dances?

Is DW getting the same audience as Atlantis in that slot last year?

From memory similar over nights territory (although I don't remember how much Atlantis actually slipped across its run) but I imagine Doctor Who's consolidated figures etc. are noticeably higher.

OMG, that is very poor! Just shows it's not cost effective or even any point in producing regional news on ITV at the weekend. Surely that's unsustainable?

As for You've Been Framed, it's time to put it to bed. Long outstayed it's welcome.

Will be interesting for the next series of X-Factor, Cowell has been pretty ruthless in the past. Could O'Leary go, Mel B will certainly be in trouble. Cheryl probably depends on how well her album sells, because that is the bottom line for him. Are people tired of Louis' act?

Anyone that thinks it will be cancelled are deluding themselves, but there will probably be big changes.

I don't think it needs changes. I don't watch it anymore as the format got too formulaic/slick for me. I detest the TOWIE audience shots .Watching people singing is a harder deal for me than watching people dance to different styles of music. I get too distracted now.

I also (for whatever reason) can't stand Cole. I was glad when she left!

It's unlikely to happen since we would have heard about it by now but I wonder if we'll see The Royle Family special? I think while it did decline in quality, it would be nice to to see a final two part special to wrap things up.

Another sitcom I think would be good to bring back for a Christmas special is Men Behaving Badly, I think a reunion has been mooted but Caroline Quentin wasn't keen on the idea and they don't want to do it unless the whole cast and Simon Nye want to do it.

I don't want to sound like a stuck record, but:

2013 Strictly preview show (Saturday): true timeshift of +0.95m
2014 Strictly preview show (Sunday): true timeshift of +0.75m

More people out on a Saturday, slightly more timeshift.

Caroline Aherne's cancer battle probably rules out a Royle Family special.

And anyway, the last one was really bad so its probably best just to leave it, as they should have after the episode where Nanna died.

Were there no TV trails for Friday's Factor? I know they did radio ads.

DW holding steady at 4.82 million, but going up to 7 million with catch up. I watched it on the I Player at lunchtime. For all Capaldi is a darker, more serious Doctor, I think this is what the series needed and viewers seem to like him.
As for TXF, 6.94 million is poor, it's definitely a show in decline now. It's the same tired programme every year and even the Cheryl factor hasn't helped.

I didn't see any but, thinking about it, I'm probably not the best person to comment as I didn't watch ITV all week.

How though? Whatever happens next week I'm sure The X Factor will rate far better between 7.30 and 8.30 then anything else would. They only have one more contestant than Strictly. Would finishing it at 10.30pm/11pm really help it?

By promoting +1 they may be able to lessen the effect of the clash next week, especially as it starts an hour before Strictly finishes. That's their only hope really.

As ITV 2 is reinventing itself as a comedy and entertainment channel, why not move YBF to the channel permanently? It's clear not enough viewers find camcorder videos from 1990 amusing on the main channel. YBF is ancient and predictable, but it does have a place as it's so cheap.

I'm surprised at XF's low rating last night. I think the drawn out drama of bootcamp last weekend may have put people off.

It will be interesting to see how XF does tonight but I have a feeling it may overtake SCD tonight... the Sunday figures have been up and down so far

I wouldn't mind a Royal Family special on Christmas Day this year to knock EastEnders out, Can't stand that show. Also it would be nice to wrap things up with Royal Family before the major plans come in Christmas 2015.

I think they advertised the Friday show quite a bit

Atlantis S1 2013

Ep 1, 28/9: 5.62m (25.3%) --> 7.36m [+1.74m]
Ep 2, 5/10: 5.06m (21.4%) --> 6.37m [+1.31m]
Ep 3, 12/10: 4.66m (19.9%) --> 6.24m [+1.58m]
Ep 4, 19/10: 4.70m (20.3%) --> 6.08m {+1.38m]
Ep 5, 26/10: 4.39m (19.0%) --> 5.61m [+1.22m]
Ep 6, 2/11: 4.46m (19.2%) --> 5.89m [+1.43m]
Ep 7, 9/11: 4.35m (18.0%) --> 5.52m [+1.17m]
Ep 8, 16/11: 4.24m (18.0%) --> 5.43m [+1.19m]
Ep 9, 30/11: 4.09m (17.4%) --> 5.26m [+1.17m]
Ep 10, 7/12: 4.07m (17.5%) --> 5.27m [+1.20m]

They didn't specifically advertise Friday's show but advertised the whole weekend quite heavily. The times were announced and were visible on screen.

Of course not. Apologies if you misunderstood because I was not clear.

My point was aimed at Samuel who was stating that The Chase deliberately allows celebrities to win money for charity. And I was pointing out they pay out more anyway than the BBC equivalent show does even when they lose.

So not implying the BBC should pay more. Rather that it is a bit strange to suggest ITV are fiddling the outcome to pay out to charity when - (a) they have no need to as they pay out something by default if the contestants lose - and (b) they aren't doing it anyway if you watch the programmes. They do, however, offer larger sums in charity shows. But the risk of losing is much the same.

Thanks.

Updated list of X Factor ratings so far this series, with timeshifts both true and crude:

http://i61.tinypic.com/30de5wl.jpg

The overnight series average to date is 8.2m/36% (inc +1), with Saturdays rating best so far (8.5m/39%) followed by Sundays (8.4m/34%) and the two Fridays (6.1m/27%).

Each Saturday show has rated lower than the last:
9.49m, 8.91m, 8.87m, 8.57m, 7.85m, 7.32m.

As PJ1893 noted, Sundays have been up and down; or rather, down and up. They started very low and went lower still in week 2 (the first full-on clash with Strictly), before rising ever since:
8.20m, 7.79m, 8.49m, 8.69m, 8.97m.