Chasing Shadows first then Grantchester on Mondays I bet.

I think Trash TV, presumably reality shows and similar entertainment, definitely has its place on smaller channels where budgets are low and quality programming would be wasted on a tiny audience. However, I would worry if BBC One or ITV bought in BB, CBB, The Kardashians and Geordie Shore, but somehow this won't happen as they're too small for these channels. Also since Geordie Shore probably gets a twentieth of the audience DW gets, you could say viewers have voted massively in favour of quality drama.

If that is the case, at 4 x 60 minutes, I think we could see this stripped across the week before I'm a Celebrity begins.

The eighties was the decade when imported soaps became big. In the early eighties US ones like Dallas were good for 17 million and Dynasty attracted 12 million, and soapy dramas like The Thornbirds achieved 16 million. ( The BBC claimed a lead in this field as ITV decided not to network Falcon Crest, which often was shown after 10.35 in many regions, and Hotel stiffed after one series).
Later on in the decade, when the US ones faltered and ended up being cancelled, Australian soaps, which had been creeping into daytime schedules since the early 80s, suddenly became the next big thing. The BBC could claim the honours with Neighbours, which was averaging 18 million viewers by 1988, but ITV came up with Home And Away, which peaked at 15.5 million, and developed a cult late night following for Cell Block as well as its daytime offerings from Aus.
However, the British soaps, whose popularity seemed to be under threat from imports off and on in the eighties, can say they have survived while America abandoned the glossy big soaps in the early 90s and Home and Away and Neighbours play to tiny audiences on Channel 5.

Ahead of tomorrow, here are the top rated shows so far of 2014 - only one per programme/show as usual...

Bake Off we already know will enter #13, but worth updating as we head towards the latter end of the year.

As for the multichannels:

I've deliberately avoided numbering them, the latter in particular is open to interpretation or whether you wish to include +1 or not.

Do you think ITV will do well if the moved news to 23:00 and show new stuff like drama at 22:00? Audience may like more choice other then news.

These debates we're having about old ratings and shows are so much pleasanter than the backbiting and bitching that has sometimes occured when debating current shows. However, 2014 won't go down as a vintage ratings year, with England exiting the world cup early, no big royal events, or olympics, but I would like to see ITV keep that ratings crown for the ill fated England/ Uruguay game.

The history lesson was fun and informative, but 1.6M is really not that tiny. It's a hell of a lot of people. Would it be so for 9PM on BBC One? Of course not. But it's a daytime soap on Channel 5. I hate it when audiences that are significant are talked down like that. It makes for a better quote, but it doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.

The substantive point to make is C5 daytime generally is holding up well compared to, for example C4, in the post-CBBC era. Admittedly Home & Away has lost the plot a bit, creatively more than anything, and there's an argument to be made that taking on the two of them was too big a commitment for a channel of its size, but would C5 daytime be holding up so well if it didn't have an anchor in the schedule like Neighbours? Let's consider for a moment how their schedule might look without it. Back in 2002 C5 expressed a serious interest in The Simpsons rights before eventually being outbid by C4. According to consolidated viewing data from BARB, that has slumped to a similar number to Neighbours this summer (e.g. 0.7M-0.8M) on a higher reach channel in a later slot when more viewers are watching and that's without a repeat that pulls in more than twice its channel's usual share earlier in the day. Yes, but they're repeats anyway, I hear you all cry. So? One of the main reasons it was the subject of a bidding war was because at the time it repeated very very well indeed.

If the aussie soaps must be mocked for their audience size on an overly frequent basis with ludicrous historical comparisons made, it's probably worth pointing out that the bigger channel next door is doing even worse relatively speaking with another import in the same slot. But of course, not a single mention has been made of The Simpsons' ratings slump before now. And that's because the "experts" on here consider C5 irrelevant even when its ratings performance across 2014 has consistently shown that it's not, only acknowledged when it simply cannot be avoided, the rest of the time met with childish derision whilst C4 is treated like it's sick and in need of support to get better; its frailties overlooked constantly at all times until something happens too significant to turn a blind eye to.

If only a more balanced approach could be applied, the whole thread would benefit from higher quality analysis.

Come on Dancc, Channel 4 gets a huge amount of stick on here. Until GoshBagosh turned up, I don't think the channel had a single cheerleader.

No, that's a terrible idea. Nice on paper, not in reality.

Putting aside the fact that they struggle to find ratings winners 8pm till 10pm as it is (maybe focus on that block first)... How would they fund all of this extra primetime content?

Moving the news away from 22.00 is what started ITV's downfall in the first place.

Well that was the argument when they moved News at Ten originally - that they were going to put dramas/films uninterupted in that slot but the problem was they had little to show and now when they are struggling to fill slots across the week they would have even less to show.

So where will Lewis go? Wednesday? Sunday?

Well the London 2012 Opening Ceremony will always be remembered by me.

Correct! Vats of bile hace been dumped on Channel 4 consistently. Only now does it have a supporter in GoshBagosh.

Ratings update covering everything not already mentioned in this thread. So basically everything outside of BBC One and the soaps.

BBC Two
20:30 Coast: 1.7m (8.1%)
21:30 Scotland Votes: What's at Stake for the UK?: 1.56m (8%)

ITV
20:00 Love Your Garden: 2.52M (12.7%)
21:00 Executed: 2.09M (9.9%)

Channel 4
20:00 Kirstie's Fill Your House for Free: 0.94M (4.7%)
21:00 Undercover Boss: 1.01m (4.8%)
22:00 Utopia: 0.29M (1.9%); 0.33M inc. +1
*beaten by digital channels including E4 and ITV2;
*overall S2 averaged 0.44M (2.8%) vs S1 average of 0.92M (5.4%).

Channel 5
21:00 CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: 1.13M (5.6%)
22:00 Big Brother: 1.24M (7.5%)
23:00 Big Brother's Bit on the Side: 0.61M (6.7%)

BBC Three
21:00 Don't Tell the Bride: 0.59M (2.8%)
23:25 Family Guy: 0.57M (6.8%)
23:45 American Dad!: 0.61M (9.5%)

BBC Four
21:00 Egypt's Lost Cities: 0.61M (3.0%)

ITV2
22:00 Hell's Kitchen USA: 0.41M (2.5%) inc. +1

ITV4
19:30 UEFA Super Cup: 0.84M (4.2%)

E4
22:00 The Big Bang Theory: 0.33M (1.8%) inc. +1
22:30 The Big Bang Theory: 0.43M (3.0%) inc. +1

More4
22:00 Masters of Sex: 0.22M (1.5%)

Sky1
20:00 Jumanji: 0.45M (2.9%)

Sky Atlantic
22:00 Ray Donovan: 0.09M (0.6%)

Digital Spy / Broadcast

Busy night, so a few thoughts. Great rating for the Scottish independence doc which started at an awkward time if you weren't watching Coast before it. The Super Cup performed with real credit too bearing in mind it was also simulcast on the new Sky Sports 5 channel in subscription homes. Does it normally do as well as that? Maybe helped by the SS5 launch publicity, including on the new Sky Sports News HQ.

Quiet night for C4 and Utopia really shouldn't be coming back with those numbers, I don't care what anyone says. C5 had a mixed evening with CSI doing poorly by its standards, but BB and BBOTS rated well. Don't Tell the Bride meanwhile recovered a fair bit from last week's low rating opener albeit still played second fiddle to the late night animations which were the channel's star performers once again by a country mile.

It would be interesting to know what the Scottish independence docco got in Scotland. Salmond got a real pummelling tonight from Jackie Bird on Rep Scot,again floundering on what currency Scotland would use.It's his Achilles' heel.

Possibly Wednesday then followed by Scott & Bailey?

Channel 4 has the rich history of distinctive home grown drama, that will probably continue to flourish and win awards. Thr channel has made a significant contribution to breakthrough drama and writers.

Actually he seems to have few Achilles heals. I was listening to interviews on the radio and people were asking all sorts of questions which apparently the SNP have not really answered.

Not in recent years it has not - at least not for me.

A strong C4 is good for TV in general, that's the way I look at it. It's in nobody's interest to downplay its ratings struggles and suggest its output is universally wonderful so everything's hunkydory when it isn't.

For me the channel is getting an easy ride in general bar one or two posters that truly recognise the extent of the situation, and I'm one of the few turning up the heat because for me it's rating exceptionally poorly now in a number of areas and there's not enough in what they're commissioning to give me hope for the future.

I wonder if ITV's non event of a summer schedule was partly influenced by the fact that they knew C4 weren't going to be at anywhere near full strength? After all, if you've got sod all to beat, you can get away with the bare minimum.

"The Mill" has achieved big audiences for it on Sunday this month.

If The Mill is a success story I'm Father Christmas. This is a programme that has lost viewers every single episode and more than halved its intial audience across the 8 episodes broadcast to date. Its overnight numbers are now no more than ordinary for the slot and poor taking into account it's an expensive drama.

You yourself said it would probably stay around the 2M mark at the start of the series, Several hundred thousand departed viewers later you're still defending it. How low does it have to fall, how many consecutive episodes without ANY upward movement or signs of stability must pass, before you consider it differently?

I liked the first series but not the second and since when is 2m big ratings for a drama even on a minor channel? Could I also mention Utopia which is achieving probably some of the worst ratings ever for a drama on a mainstream channel.