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'Deep Breath' Spoiler-Free Reviews
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CD93
11-08-2014
This is not a story which affects the entire planet such as The Christmas Invasion or The Eleventh Hour. The Atraxi were ever-present in that regard because they were threatening the Earth. Their primary purpose was to put The Doctor on a time limit and emphasise the urgency of the situation. Did they do much more than that? No - not really.

The Sycorax actively did much more. But those episodes would be much more akin to this if only Prisoner Zero and Roboforms were larking around. Villains that are more threats to the local population than anything.

This is a story which just affects London. It is the first revival debut set in the past so is locked down in that regard. The main villain in Deep Breath practically gets the final third to themselves. Their presence and interference still form the reasons why The Doctor does what he does. Apart from something which can't be mentioned.

Could they have been used more? Absolutely - I have already said so. Did they need to be used more? No - mostly for a reason too spoilery to get in to here, with the other reason being the focus on the main gang.
Tony Tiger
11-08-2014
It just sounds like you're now agreeing they weren't as impactful tbh

Really the story could have improved immeasurably with some tweaking and the villains being removed altogether. But I doubt we'll ever see the day this tired insistence, that every episode must have some alien threat, ends.
CD93
11-08-2014
I think when people compare The Doctor & Amy's encounters with Prisoner Zero compared with The Doctor & Clara's encounters with these villains - the latter will appear much more sinister and threatening. For a villain that would supposedly kill Amy on sight the moment she saw it - she got out of this situation with no trouble at all. I hope there is appreciation for a similar but much better handled sequence in DB.

We'll see on the 23rd. In the meantime, I'll scout for more reviews.
Tony Tiger
11-08-2014
fwiw I don't think The Eleventh Hour's villains were amazing, just tied into the story and used much more effectively than Deep Breath's, which mostly feel like an irrelevant obligated afterthought.
Callous
11-08-2014
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“Absolutely. The villains need to feel fleshed out rather than being plot devices for a truly excellent story. As the saying goes 'every villain is the hero of their own story'. It's one of the issues with the monster of the week format (that you don't get to know the villains in that time) and why shows generally tend towards having arcs instead. It'd be nice to see a new ongoing villain with a proper arc who we really get to know. The issue with the Silence was their overall story remained a mystery for most of the time and then it wasn't wonderfully tied up. I was hoping after the Snowmen and Bells that the GI would make another appearance in 7b before the end but alas...

So whilst I think Moffat needs to dial back the story arcs in some ways (hearing him admit to an audience that he doesn't plan anything on paper and it's all in his head explains a LOT of the problems!) a good, straight forward villain arc would be great to see.”

That's trickier in Doctor Who. We're dealing with a show based around a machine that travels in space and time...so unless they are chasing someone through time or are being chased through time, it's very hard to have a consistant villain arc in the same way other shows do.

It's hard to evolve a strong hero vs villain arc unless you are both following the same timeline. That's where other sci-fi/genre shows have an advantage when it comes to establishing strong arcs an villains. The time travel aspect is a disadvantage in that regard.
claire2281
11-08-2014
Originally Posted by Callous:
“That's trickier in Doctor Who. We're dealing with a show based around a machine that travels in space and time...so unless they are chasing someone through time or are being chased through time, it's very hard to have a consistant villain arc in the same way other shows do.”

Oh it is, but it's one of the rules of really good story telling to give your villain as much weight and life as your hero. It adds depth to proceedings. He did seem to attempt this with the Silence but because he's not the type of writer that does a huge amount of in depth planning it didn't hold together coherently enough. It wouldn't need to be something in every episode but I'm hoping that series 8 features an underlying arc to do with the threat faced in the finale. It just feels more satisfying as a story that way.
CD93
11-08-2014
I suspect you will be happy, Claire - but it's too early to tell.
Phoenix Lazarus
11-08-2014
Have just watched the leaked episode. I think it's actually rather average, as far as the main story goes, with a little emoting & disorientation about the Doctor's new self, of course. Strax continues to be a humorous character though, and there are hints at the end of a couple of possible sources of ongoing mystery & intrigue throughout the next series.
CD93
11-08-2014
As posted by Cameron in the DB thread:

Quote:
“There are a number of scenes, full of tension and pregnant with malevolence which prey on the eye and mind aided hauntingly by a scintillating score from regular composer Murray Gold. Very different to the Matt Smith era.”

http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/11/doctor...isode-4828023/
CD93
12-08-2014
HeyuGuys Spoiler-Free Review

http://www.heyuguys.com/doctor-deep-...de-1-reaction/
CD93
12-08-2014
TotalFilm Spoiler-Free Review

Quote:
“Coleman likewise explodes any series 7-based presumptions with her forthright delivery. Equally forthright is the lived-in, cinema-standard direction, which shares a purposeful mien with Capaldi’s “attack eyebrows” and reiterates Wheatley’s flair for witty/tense stand-offs over dinner tables”

http://www.totalfilm.com/news/doctor...eaction-review


UnrealityTV Spoiler-Free Review

Quote:
“Although ‘Deep Breath’ holds back on all the niceties between the Doctor and Clara at first, we still get a glimpse at what the new series is going to be like, and even beyond. Everyone has their favourite Doctor, and I think after series 8, Peter Capaldi is going to be pretty high on everyone’s lists. He’s like one of the older Doctors, and it’s a nice breath of fresh air to have a completely different character to Smith’s Doctor.”

Would link.. but it's blocked.
CD93
17-08-2014
Quote:
“Deep Breath is a cracking good story and both Peter and Jenna turn in some top notch performances. Steven Moffet has given Clara a bit more substance and it allows Jenna to show more of what she is capable of. The story is gripping, funny, sad, and thought provoking.”

Sydney Morning Herald

Quote:
“Peter Capaldi is an out-and-out winner as The Doctor, instantly inhabiting the role with a distinctive, edgy take on the famous character.

Clara (Jenna Coleman) is the driving force of the Deep Breath. And the relationship between the pair has been moved away from the will they, won't they sexual tension of the past into a more familial, mutually nuturing partnership.

It is a breathless, suspense-filled whirlwind of 75 minutes, but one with the charm, biting humour and the completely British eccentricity that is the show's hallmark.”

Observer

Quote:
“Peter Capaldi instantly owns the part that he was born to play but, unlike some of his predecessors, he doesn’t immediately engender fuzzy feelings of cosy comfort. This Doctor is strange and spiky and, for now, remains the mystery that he absolutely ought to be.”

Tony Tiger
17-08-2014
I just don't see the massive improvement with JC myself. She's not bad or anything but I found her performance far more touching in TOTD.
CD93
17-08-2014
Well at least it's something else we can disagree on with DB
Tony Tiger
17-08-2014
Ha! I think it stems from my not really swallowing her dilemma in the first place. It doesn't ring true to me so I guess any emotion born from that isn't going to be very affecting to me.
Jon_Jones
17-08-2014
Originally Posted by Tony Tiger:
“Ha! I think it stems from my not really swallowing her dilemma in the first place. It doesn't ring true to me so I guess any emotion born from that isn't going to be very affecting to me.”

Spoiler
I'm assuming this is because Clara has seen the Doctor's past incarnations, and so it seems strange that she's so shaken up by regeneration, yes? I thought the same thing but have come to terms with it. Thing is, Clara did say in Day of the Doctor that her memories of her visit to the Doctor's time stream were fuzzy. Also, we don't know how much contact she actually had with any of the past Doctors, probably not enough to get an impression of their personalities. Also I can especially understand her having trouble adjusting to Smith turning into Capaldi -- there is a huge difference between them, especially in personality.

Also, it's a bit like it is for us as viewers. We are all fully aware of all the past Doctors, but we still sometimes have trouble adjusting to a new Doctor, because a new Doctor replaces the one that we've gotten used to seeing regularly, and usually grown to like or even love. We know we will see the new Doctor regularly (assuming we keep viewing). If there are past Doctors we don't like much, that doesn't matter. But when a new Doctor comes along, if we're not sure about him, that's more worrying. I love Capaldi's Doctor -- as a character, but I'm not sure I'd love him so much if he was real, and I was travelling with him. He'd be hard work. So from Clara's perspective, I do understand her having difficulty adjusting.
claire2281
17-08-2014
Originally Posted by Jon_Jones:
“
Spoiler
I'm assuming this is because Clara has seen the Doctor's past incarnations, and so it seems strange that she's so shaken up by regeneration, yes? I thought the same thing but have come to terms with it. Thing is, Clara did say in Day of the Doctor that her memories of her visit to the Doctor's time stream were fuzzy. Also, we don't know how much contact she actually had with any of the past Doctors, probably not enough to get an impression of their personalities. Also I can especially understand her having trouble adjusting to Smith turning into Capaldi -- there is a huge difference between them, especially in personality.

Also, it's a bit like it is for us as viewers. We are all fully aware of all the past Doctors, but we still sometimes have trouble adjusting to a new Doctor, because a new Doctor replaces the one that we've gotten used to seeing regularly, and usually grown to like or even love. We know we will see the new Doctor regularly (assuming we keep viewing). If there are past Doctors we don't like much, that doesn't matter. But when a new Doctor comes along, if we're not sure about him, that's more worrying. I love Capaldi's Doctor -- as a character, but I'm not sure I'd love him so much if he was real, and I was travelling with him. He'd be hard work. So from Clara's perspective, I do understand her having difficulty adjusting.
”

Spoiler
Quite. Clara adored and loved 11. He was her Doctor and she's mourning him. The adjustment is understandable. She's met other Doctor's before but she's always had her one to go back to. It's a hard situation for her because she clearly is still caring for the Doctor in his new form but if she could choose to have 11 back during this episode then she wouldn't hesitate. And tbh I don't blame her. 11 would be the far nicer man to be around!

So far I find Capaldi's Doctor interesting but I don't actually like him. He's obviously influenced by Moffat's Sherlock writing and I don't really like that character either. From a critical point of view I'm finding him interesting to watch and of course Capaldi is as good as ever but I'm not particularly attached to him and I wouldn't be affected emotionally if he had left after the end of this series. The smidgen of actual vulnerability he showed at the end with wanting Clara to like him was the only time I felt anything towards his character. Otherwise the writing was clever and the acting good but emotionally he left me cold. I'm hoping they thaw him a lot as the series goes on!
Jon_Jones
18-08-2014
Originally Posted by claire2281:
“
Spoiler
Quite. Clara adored and loved 11. He was her Doctor and she's mourning him. The adjustment is understandable. She's met other Doctor's before but she's always had her one to go back to. It's a hard situation for her because she clearly is still caring for the Doctor in his new form but if she could choose to have 11 back during this episode then she wouldn't hesitate. And tbh I don't blame her. 11 would be the far nicer man to be around!

So far I find Capaldi's Doctor interesting but I don't actually like him. He's obviously influenced by Moffat's Sherlock writing and I don't really like that character either. From a critical point of view I'm finding him interesting to watch and of course Capaldi is as good as ever but I'm not particularly attached to him and I wouldn't be affected emotionally if he had left after the end of this series. The smidgen of actual vulnerability he showed at the end with wanting Clara to like him was the only time I felt anything towards his character. Otherwise the writing was clever and the acting good but emotionally he left me cold. I'm hoping they thaw him a lot as the series goes on!
”

Not massive spoilers below, BTW, just discussion of Capaldi's approach to the role:
Spoiler
See, I hope they don't thaw him too much. I don't want to be emotionally affected by the Doctor on that level - he's far more entertaining when he's aloof, inscrutable and alien. But, then, I like Moffat's Sherlock too, I'm just quite fascinated by that kind of character: They're exciting because they're unpredictable, they're hilarious because they say and do such enormously inappropriate things and they're admirable (to me) because they see through all of society's more nonsensical assumptions.

To me, the Doctor should always be an unconventional hero in every way possible -- not a ladies man, not an action hero, and not even particularly nice a lot of the time. But always the cleverest man on the planet. I think I'm going to enjoy Capaldi's reign immensely
claire2281
18-08-2014
Originally Posted by Jon_Jones:
“Not massive spoilers below, BTW, just discussion of Capaldi's approach to the role:
Spoiler
See, I hope they don't thaw him too much. I don't want to be emotionally affected by the Doctor on that level - he's far more entertaining when he's aloof, inscrutable and alien. But, then, I like Moffat's Sherlock too, I'm just quite fascinated by that kind of character: They're exciting because they're unpredictable, they're hilarious because they say and do such enormously inappropriate things and they're admirable (to me) because they see through all of society's more nonsensical assumptions.

To me, the Doctor should always be an unconventional hero in every way possible -- not a ladies man, not an action hero, and not even particularly nice a lot of the time. But always the cleverest man on the planet. I think I'm going to enjoy Capaldi's reign immensely
”

This one does contain a spoiler for ep2 folks, so don't look if you don't want to know

Spoiler
It's clearly a matter of personal taste - which is of course fine - but I really don't like that kind of character. I just think they're an arse who doesn't deserve the attention they get from others Essentially if he was to regenerate I wouldn't feel anything for him. I wouldn't care and I'm not sure that's what you want in a good main character. I can see why Jenna is getting such praise because she's carrying all the emotional acting weight in the episodes now. I haven't seen all of episode 2 yet but his killing of that guy (Ros) was particularly disappointing. Obviously he had understandable reasons but the fact he doesn't seem to care is sad - I always loved the idea that whilst he was so 'big' he cared about the individuals. Remorse might come up before the end but as a moment I found it very disappointing.
Tony Tiger
18-08-2014
spoiler for ep 2
Spoiler
He didn't kill him though. As he said, the guy was dead already, he just took advantage of the situation to track where the remains would go. This to me is one of the types of things people hold up as an example of the show getting "darker" that I strongly dispute, as The Doctor has shown a similar lack of compassion many times in the past, when the story/situation called for it.
claire2281
18-08-2014
Originally Posted by Tony Tiger:
“spoiler for ep 2
Spoiler
He didn't kill him though. As he said, the guy was dead already, he just took advantage of the situation to track where the remains would go. This to me is one of the types of things people hold up as an example of the show getting "darker" that I strongly dispute, as The Doctor has shown a similar lack of compassion many times in the past, when the story/situation called for it.
”

Spoiler
I see what you mean but it trod a fine line. The trick and the total lack of remorse wasn't the character I'd liked. The three most recent Doctor's really cared when they couldn't save someone in such circumstances. The fact 12 didn't seem bothered was disappointing to me. Some will obviously love it and think it gives the character an edge. I'm kind of bored of those types of characters in fiction.
vrooom
18-08-2014
I've done two spoiler free reviews on the YouTubes if anyone is interested:

Episode 1 - Deep Breath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QAl..._F3had&index=2

Episode 2 - Into the Dalek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFSU..._F3had&index=1

Enjoy!
tomwozhere
18-08-2014
Originally Posted by vrooom:
“I've done two spoiler free reviews on the YouTubes if anyone is interested:

Episode 1 - Deep Breath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QAl..._F3had&index=2

Episode 2 - Into the Dalek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFSU..._F3had&index=1

Enjoy!”

Really nice reviews there, definitely made me more excited.

Though I would say that anyone who doesn't have any idea about the villain in Deep Breath should probably avoid the Deep Breath review if they want to go in knowing nothing.
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