Cora is a lowlife, alchoholic old scumbag with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I despise her with a passion, and not in a way that I enjoy like I enjoy hating Gary Windass.
EastEnders: Cora is a vile human being...
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Originally Posted by big dan:
“Not too fussed to be honest, Mick's another one who seems to think his clan's above the law what with pestering a cancer-stricken woman on the day of a major operation to stay quiet for his stupid babyish sister and thinking it ok for his son to keep quiet about potential evidence in a local murder investigation to keep him out of the stick. Yeah it's a shame he got called out on something he's innocent of but maybe it's about time people were given the idea his shit don't really smell that rosy.
”
“Not too fussed to be honest, Mick's another one who seems to think his clan's above the law what with pestering a cancer-stricken woman on the day of a major operation to stay quiet for his stupid babyish sister and thinking it ok for his son to keep quiet about potential evidence in a local murder investigation to keep him out of the stick. Yeah it's a shame he got called out on something he's innocent of but maybe it's about time people were given the idea his shit don't really smell that rosy.
”
That is very true. Mick has been presented as a goodie but the way he treated Carol was pretty disgusting. Also, it didn't seem to occur to them that if the Jacksons didn't tell the Police the truth about where Liam found the drugs, They might assume it was them manufacturing them which might bring charges and Social Services taking the kids away.
Originally Posted by shrinkingviolet:
“I haven't liked Cora for a while, but I actually don't blame her for this one. If you look at it from her perspective, there is a man who has admitted soliciting a prostitute in court, up acting the family man beside his wife and kids. Throw in the fact that she believes that her daughter is basically being preyed upon by men like him in order to fund her addiction then I actually understand why the perceived hypocrisy might irk her enough to want to lash out at him, without even thinking. Remember, she has her own relationship with Stan at risk here too - so clearly she's not rational at that moment.
The real villain in this piece is Ian, who is just standing there letting his ~friend be humiliated and his reputation pulled apart in order to save his own cowardly skin. The guilt trip he laid on Mick in the first place was bad enough, but this is just pathetic.”
“I haven't liked Cora for a while, but I actually don't blame her for this one. If you look at it from her perspective, there is a man who has admitted soliciting a prostitute in court, up acting the family man beside his wife and kids. Throw in the fact that she believes that her daughter is basically being preyed upon by men like him in order to fund her addiction then I actually understand why the perceived hypocrisy might irk her enough to want to lash out at him, without even thinking. Remember, she has her own relationship with Stan at risk here too - so clearly she's not rational at that moment.
The real villain in this piece is Ian, who is just standing there letting his ~friend be humiliated and his reputation pulled apart in order to save his own cowardly skin. The guilt trip he laid on Mick in the first place was bad enough, but this is just pathetic.”
I agree with this completely. As far as Cora is concerned Mick is guilty by his own admission and her daughter is somebody that has been hurt by him so I do understand her perspective and let's face it she has always been judgemental despite her own flaws.
I still don't like her though.
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“It still wasn't nice of her. It may seem to her, that Mick is a hypocrite but what right does she have to embarrass Mick like that? If she didn't like how he was behaving, she should have just left the pub.”
“It still wasn't nice of her. It may seem to her, that Mick is a hypocrite but what right does she have to embarrass Mick like that? If she didn't like how he was behaving, she should have just left the pub.”
I also agree with this. Whilst I understand her perspective, it wasn't just Mick she was humiliating and hurting but his wife and children who had done nothing to deserve it.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I also agree with this. Whilst I understand her perspective, it wasn't just Mick she was humiliating and hurting but his wife and children who had done nothing to deserve it.”
“I also agree with this. Whilst I understand her perspective, it wasn't just Mick she was humiliating and hurting but his wife and children who had done nothing to deserve it.”
This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.
Originally Posted by vaslav37:
“This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.”
“This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.”
But unlike the audience Cora doesn't know about Ian's involvement does she and it is a natural (if wrong) parental reaction to shift blame from their child onto another party. So I can understand her anger centreing on Mick. But that doesn't make it okay for her to hurt his family as well as him. I suppose she'd do the same to Denise, Peter and Bobby if she knew it was Ian despite the hell they are already going through due to Lucy's murder.
I adore Cora. Ann Mitchell is an asset to EE now. While she was wrong to do what she did her reaction was driven by her worry of Rainie being back on drugs but most of all selling herself to men. I thought the scene in the café between mother and daughter was heartbreaking.
Originally Posted by londongirlGre:
“It still wasn't nice of her. It may seem to her, that Mick is a hypocrite but what right does she have to embarrass Mick like that? If she didn't like how he was behaving, she should have just left the pub.”
“It still wasn't nice of her. It may seem to her, that Mick is a hypocrite but what right does she have to embarrass Mick like that? If she didn't like how he was behaving, she should have just left the pub.”
I agree with you but then Cora is not a nice character. I think we've been given enough of her backstory to understand why she's the way she is and the writers have left it up to the viewers if they want to sympathise with her or not. Most people won't and I like that we're not being forced to by the writing.
Originally Posted by vaslav37:
“This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.”
“This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.”
They caused the problem but Cora has escalated it by stirring up trouble and humiliating Mick in front of the entire pub. She's not blameless in this.
Originally Posted by Broken_Arrow:
“I agree with you but then Cora is not a nice character. I think we've been given enough of her backstory to understand why she's the way she is and the writers have left it up to the viewers if they want to sympathise with her or not. Most people won't and I like that we're not being forced to by the writing.”
“I agree with you but then Cora is not a nice character. I think we've been given enough of her backstory to understand why she's the way she is and the writers have left it up to the viewers if they want to sympathise with her or not. Most people won't and I like that we're not being forced to by the writing.”
Yes, I can have aa certain amount of empathy for Cora - I think I understand how life has turned her into what she is but I still don't like or approve of her as there are ways to deal with the ++++ that life throws at you which don't always involve throwing it back and hurting others. Her experiences have made her utterly self involved, judgemental and uncaring towards others (even her own family if their welfare gets in the way of her own) and I just can't bring myself to care for someone like that even if I sympathize with their experiences.
It's like when Phil covered for Ben following Heather's death. I completely understood why as a parent his need to care for his son over rode everything else, I understood and sympathized but it didn't make it right and it didn't make me like him.
But that is what you need in a chararcter - for them to be multi layered and the audiences reaction to them not be black or white.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Yes, I can have aa certain amount of empathy for Cora - I think I understand how life has turned her into what she is but I still don't like or approve of her as there are ways to deal with the ++++ that life throws at you which don't always involve throwing it back and hurting others. Her experiences have made her utterly self involved, judgemental and uncaring towards others (even her own family if their welfare gets in the way of her own) and I just can't bring myself to care for someone like that even if I sympathize with their experiences.
It's like when Phil covered for Ben following Heather's death. I completely understood why as a parent his need to care for his son over rode everything else, I understood and sympathized but it didn't make it right and it didn't make me like him.
But that is what you need in a chararcter - for them to be multi layered and the audiences reaction to them not be black or white.”
“Yes, I can have aa certain amount of empathy for Cora - I think I understand how life has turned her into what she is but I still don't like or approve of her as there are ways to deal with the ++++ that life throws at you which don't always involve throwing it back and hurting others. Her experiences have made her utterly self involved, judgemental and uncaring towards others (even her own family if their welfare gets in the way of her own) and I just can't bring myself to care for someone like that even if I sympathize with their experiences.
It's like when Phil covered for Ben following Heather's death. I completely understood why as a parent his need to care for his son over rode everything else, I understood and sympathized but it didn't make it right and it didn't make me like him.
But that is what you need in a chararcter - for them to be multi layered and the audiences reaction to them not be black or white.”
Absolutely. I don't like Cora in the sense that she's not a nice person but I do like watching her because I can understand her motivations even if I don't agree with them. There was a time Cora was not written all that well and I hated her guts. I think she's been given some depth recently and I enjoy her a lot more. I'm glad for the actress because she was wasted on being a one dimensional hag. I'm not sure I'd be quite as willing to tolerate her if the writers suddenly decided to direct the writing in a way in which we're forced to see her as a sympathetic figure whether it makes sense or not. And yes, that's a dig at Saint Shirley
Originally Posted by Broken_Arrow:
“Absolutely. I don't like Cora in the sense that she's not a nice person but I do like watching her because I can understand her motivations even if I don't agree with them. There was a time Cora was not written all that well and I hated her guts. I think she's been given some depth recently and I enjoy her a lot more. I'm glad for the actress because she was wasted on being a one dimensional hag. I'm not sure I'd be quite as willing to tolerate her if the writers suddenly decided to direct the writing in a way in which we're forced to see her as a sympathetic figure whether it makes sense or not. And yes, that's a dig at Saint Shirley”
“Absolutely. I don't like Cora in the sense that she's not a nice person but I do like watching her because I can understand her motivations even if I don't agree with them. There was a time Cora was not written all that well and I hated her guts. I think she's been given some depth recently and I enjoy her a lot more. I'm glad for the actress because she was wasted on being a one dimensional hag. I'm not sure I'd be quite as willing to tolerate her if the writers suddenly decided to direct the writing in a way in which we're forced to see her as a sympathetic figure whether it makes sense or not. And yes, that's a dig at Saint Shirley
”
I actually said (and then deleted) in my last post that she and Shirley are cut from the same cloth and I have very similar reactions to them as a viewer. Both have had hard lives and some things happen to them which were totally out of their control (Shirley being forced to live as Mick's sister, not mother and then Jimbo being born very ill, Cora being forced to give up her first baby and then her husband dying relatively young) and it is hard not to sympathize with that. But the waay they reacted to these situations and how they have faced life (and their families and friends) since we're within their control and mostly they have created their own appalling luck and lives so I find it hard to sympathize with that or like them - especially when they insist on taking no responsibility for anything and constantly trying to make other people feel as bad as they do - even those that genuinely reach out a helping hand. But, they are interesting and both played by great actresses.
I don't like the way Shirley is being written either but then I'm likely to take against any character that I feel the writers are trying to manipulate the audience with. Saint Stacey is a bigger bugbear of mine (and was all through 2010 as well) even though to be fair, it's not actually her so much as the people surrounding her that are sycophantic.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I actually said (and then deleted) in my last post that she and Shirley are cut from the same cloth and I have very similar reactions to them as a viewer. Both have had hard lives and some things happen to them which were totally out of their control (Shirley being forced to live as Mick's sister, not mother and then Jimbo being born very ill, Cora being forced to give up her first baby and then her husband dying relatively young) and it is hard not to sympathize with that. But the waay they reacted to these situations and how they have faced life (and their families and friends) since we're within their control and mostly they have created their own appalling luck and lives so I find it hard to sympathize with that or like them - especially when they insist on taking no responsibility for anything and constantly trying to make other people feel as bad as they do - even those that genuinely reach out a helping hand. But, they are interesting and both played by great actresses.
I don't like the way Shirley is being written either but then I'm likely to take against any character that I feel the writers are trying to manipulate the audience with. Saint Stacey is a bigger bugbear of mine (and was all through 2010 as well) even though to be fair, it's not actually her so much as the people surrounding her that are sycophantic.”
“I actually said (and then deleted) in my last post that she and Shirley are cut from the same cloth and I have very similar reactions to them as a viewer. Both have had hard lives and some things happen to them which were totally out of their control (Shirley being forced to live as Mick's sister, not mother and then Jimbo being born very ill, Cora being forced to give up her first baby and then her husband dying relatively young) and it is hard not to sympathize with that. But the waay they reacted to these situations and how they have faced life (and their families and friends) since we're within their control and mostly they have created their own appalling luck and lives so I find it hard to sympathize with that or like them - especially when they insist on taking no responsibility for anything and constantly trying to make other people feel as bad as they do - even those that genuinely reach out a helping hand. But, they are interesting and both played by great actresses.
I don't like the way Shirley is being written either but then I'm likely to take against any character that I feel the writers are trying to manipulate the audience with. Saint Stacey is a bigger bugbear of mine (and was all through 2010 as well) even though to be fair, it's not actually her so much as the people surrounding her that are sycophantic.”
I feel the exact same way as you. It's like you read my mind
I don't like being manipulated and I will draw back from it hence my distaste for Shirley and tolerance of Cora. I strongly agree about Stacey. She's been easy to like this time around but the writers have done a hatchet job on those closest to her in order to make her look better. They need not have bothered. Stacey admitting her guilt and going to prison was enough. It's a pity they couldn't think of a more inventive way to get her out of prison than what we've seen this week. I've found the whole thing a bit insulting to bipolar sufferers along with the melodrama being ramped up to sickening levels all to justify her release.
Originally Posted by misty cloud:
“A brilliant actress but she wound me up with her pious speech which btw failed to point out that her junkie daughter was the prostitute Mick was with!”
“A brilliant actress but she wound me up with her pious speech which btw failed to point out that her junkie daughter was the prostitute Mick was with!”
I know it stuck in the craw but to be fair how many of us would have admitted that? She's an absolute hypocrite in the fact that it was her daughter supplying the 'goods' but I think many people would have baulked at saying: "and I know because it was MY daughter he solicited!"
Don't forget Cora is convinced that Mick is a 'dirty' kerb-crawler now, she doesn't know the bigger story and thinks that not only is he cheating on a lovely woman like Linda (whilst he plays the adoring family man) but worse (in her opinion) if it wasn't for men like him buying sex then her daughter wouldn't be selling herself to buy drugs. She's pinning the blame on the men instead of seeing that her daughter is equally culpable and it's a bit of a vicious circle.
Originally Posted by Scrabbler:
“Regardless of what Cora thought about Mick, she actually brought shame upon Linda. She could have spoken to Mick In private but instead her actions cause more pain for Linda who is innocent in all this.”
“Regardless of what Cora thought about Mick, she actually brought shame upon Linda. She could have spoken to Mick In private but instead her actions cause more pain for Linda who is innocent in all this.”
I know, I HATED her for doing that to Linda (and the kids). She could see how upset Linda was in court. When she sat outside glaring at the pub she said to Stan that Linda was a lovely woman (or words to that effect) then went in and did THAT to her? Like you say, she could have spoken to Linda in private while she glared at Mick. Even had the same outburst upstairs in the Vic when there was only family present but to publicly disgrace him/them? What a cow.
(however the actress was absolutely superb! Love Ann Mitchell and am glad she's being used properly.)
Originally Posted by vaslav37:
“This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.”
“This is Ian & Rainie's fault not Cora & Mick's.”
Oh come on vaslav, I know you love Cora but she could have kept her big trap shut! It's her fault that Mick, and by association Linda and the kids, have been publicly disgraced.
Agree that Ian in the ultimate weasel here though. The b@stard actually stood by and watched Mick not only take the fall for him but also be 'outed' by a bitter old trout! At least Rainie has the excuse of her addiction for behaving the way she is (but I also think she's inherited a lot of her mothers nastiness anyway) - but what excuse could there be for Cora to publicly embarrass innocents (Linda and kids)? She's upset because her daughter is a drug-addicted prossie? Well take it up with her because it could also be argued that if Rainie wasn't selling, Mick couldn't be buying!
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I actually said (and then deleted) in my last post that she and Shirley are cut from the same cloth and I have very similar reactions to them as a viewer. Both have had hard lives and some things happen to them which were totally out of their control (Shirley being forced to live as Mick's sister, not mother and then Jimbo being born very ill, Cora being forced to give up her first baby and then her husband dying relatively young) and it is hard not to sympathize with that. But the waay they reacted to these situations and how they have faced life (and their families and friends) since we're within their control and mostly they have created their own appalling luck and lives so I find it hard to sympathize with that or like them - especially when they insist on taking no responsibility for anything and constantly trying to make other people feel as bad as they do - even those that genuinely reach out a helping hand. But, they are interesting and both played by great actresses.
I don't like the way Shirley is being written either but then I'm likely to take against any character that I feel the writers are trying to manipulate the audience with. Saint Stacey is a bigger bugbear of mine (and was all through 2010 as well) even though to be fair, it's not actually her so much as the people surrounding her that are sycophantic.”
“I actually said (and then deleted) in my last post that she and Shirley are cut from the same cloth and I have very similar reactions to them as a viewer. Both have had hard lives and some things happen to them which were totally out of their control (Shirley being forced to live as Mick's sister, not mother and then Jimbo being born very ill, Cora being forced to give up her first baby and then her husband dying relatively young) and it is hard not to sympathize with that. But the waay they reacted to these situations and how they have faced life (and their families and friends) since we're within their control and mostly they have created their own appalling luck and lives so I find it hard to sympathize with that or like them - especially when they insist on taking no responsibility for anything and constantly trying to make other people feel as bad as they do - even those that genuinely reach out a helping hand. But, they are interesting and both played by great actresses.
I don't like the way Shirley is being written either but then I'm likely to take against any character that I feel the writers are trying to manipulate the audience with. Saint Stacey is a bigger bugbear of mine (and was all through 2010 as well) even though to be fair, it's not actually her so much as the people surrounding her that are sycophantic.”
Great post, spot on.
Regarding Stacey, I'm a bit more hopeful than I was because she seems to have grown up a bit and at least is taking responsibility for her actions. Kat though makes me sick when it comes to Stacey - growling and snarling at the prison officer who even Stacey understood was just doing her job and don't get me started on what she did months ago just so Stacey would be living on the square *roll eyes* It was a shame because Kat's character had been repaired after that 'who's the shagger' debacle but all that was completely undone. The character of Kat shouldn't have been thrown under a bus to facilitate Lacey Turner's return and that IMO is what happened.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“But unlike the audience Cora doesn't know about Ian's involvement does she and it is a natural (if wrong) parental reaction to shift blame from their child onto another party. So I can understand her anger centreing on Mick. But that doesn't make it okay for her to hurt his family as well as him. I suppose she'd do the same to Denise, Peter and Bobby if she knew it was Ian despite the hell they are already going through due to Lucy's murder.”
“But unlike the audience Cora doesn't know about Ian's involvement does she and it is a natural (if wrong) parental reaction to shift blame from their child onto another party. So I can understand her anger centreing on Mick. But that doesn't make it okay for her to hurt his family as well as him. I suppose she'd do the same to Denise, Peter and Bobby if she knew it was Ian despite the hell they are already going through due to Lucy's murder.”
Yes I cannot believe she shamed Linda in that way, where was her solidarity to women?
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