This scene is so tense and superbly acted

Its shortly after Mark told his mum and dad he had HIV and the continued reaction from his parents to the news

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4fyaaUVHso


Shame the soap awards weren't around in those days. I think these scenes are BAFTA worthy.

Mark Fowler was one of my favorite characters and Lisa when she came into the show, this is one of the best periods of Eastenders with many scenes like this.

It will never be the same simple fact.

The Fowlers were the backbone of EastEnders, not the Beales. Pauline, Arthur, Mark and Michelle were so real. I think the Beale portion of the family unjustly gets all the credit simply because Ian The Weasel is still hanging around. The Beales worked great in tandem with the Fowlers but only Lou Beale and early years Kathy were anything special from the Beale side of the family. Cindy was a great character but she would have worked with or without the Beale connection.

Bill Treacher is still alive. Do you think EE made a mistake killing Arthur off?

Not sure actually how could he fit in today.

It made sense at the time. I really couldn't see Arthur leaving Pauline after the Mrs. Hewitt affair. Maybe if they'd said he had a mental breakdown and disappeared but they'd used that with Frank Butcher quite recently. It's interesting to think what EastEnders would have been like if Arthur hadn't died. No Arthur's Bench for a start

Maybe they should have had him go stay with Michelle after another breakdown. Imagine if he had returned. Arthur may have still been around today!

Probably yes, i think Bill Treacher didn't want to be killed off from what i remember reading at the time, i think he said something like 'You never know when you want to come back to earn a few Quid.' Arthur was a brilliant character, played by a brilliant actor, his Nervous Breakdown, his arrest for stealing the Christmas club money, being wrongly put in prison for fraud and his affair with Mrs. Hewitt were all fantastic storylines. Arthur was essentially a good man, a patriach who never had any luck. I suppose they should of left the door open, but then again i could never see Arthur leaving Pauline and the Square for an extended period of time as that was were he belonged, so in that aspect i suppose killing him of was the only option.

I think he'd fill the patriarchal role Patrick now fills. Who knows? With Pauline gone he may have ended up with Pat Butcher

Its a shame EastEnders couldn't have been more accommodating towards Bill. I understand he quit because he was exhausted and needed a break but he never wanted Arthur killed off. Perhaps a better move would have been asking him to stay on but as a semi regular. That way when Bill was feeling better he may have been able to then commit to rejoining full time.

I always feel sad when I watch old clips like the above as that EE is long gone. The Fowlers really are missed. I hope one day James Alexandrou returns. In the meantime it would be nice to DTC could let us get to know Rebecca. So far she had hardly featured.

Is the clip in black & white?

The sad thing about Lou is that Anna Wing only went and confessed around the time of EastEnders 15th Birthday that she realised leaving so early was a mistake! If only Julia Smith had sent Lou away to stay with one of her sisters for a while Lou herself may have lasted into the 90s or even 00s.

I always think producers should be very careful when killing certain characters. Ethel is the best example. They could have killed her off at any point but when it happened, it happened at the right time.

Speaking of the Beale's. Pete Beale was woefully miscast. Peter Dean was just awful and I remember reading somewhere he wasn't even the actor they wanted for the role but Julia felt sorry for him or something like that and ended up giving him the part. What a shame. She recast Angie at the last minute. Should have done the same with Pete. Who knows, maybe he would have also still been around.

I wish they'd gone that route. Arthur was one of my favourite original characters and yet he hardly gets a mention on here which is a shame. I'd have loved a return.

It is crazy to think Lou Beale could have been in EastEnders until relatively recently and also that Arthur could still be there now. When Pauline and Martin left in late 2006/early 2007 it felt to me like the door was well and truly closed on an important part of EastEnders history.

What relation to the family was Nellie?

I've always wondered why the producers have never created more Beales because Lou had about six kids. This is written into EE history so none of it would be a retcon. The show just stopped mentioning them all after the 80s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Beale#Backstory

Harry, Ronnie, Dora and Kenny. We only met Kenny for a few months in 1988.

I always assumed she was Lou's sister but it turns out according to Wikipedia she was Lou's second cousin. You wonder why they put up with her for so long given the distant relation

It is strange that no new Beales have been brought in. There have been quite a few opportunities to do so but none have been taken. Ian should not have been left as the head of the family. Kenny Beale appeared briefly in the 80's so he's already out there as an on screen presence. It seems the rest of Lou's kids lost contact with the family.

How strange I thought Nellie was Lou's sister too.

Its a shame they have never taken the opportunity to bring in Harry or Kenny as the new family head. Harry is petty much an open book. He could have a whole new generation of Beale's just waiting in the wings.

It is crazy to think we could of had Lou Beale still around until fairly recently, only last year when she died at 98 years of age, what an innings, it's like having June Brown as Dot around until 2025 or 2026, if she lives as long as Anna Wing did. Imagine what Lou, would of made of Arthur's affair, Mark's HIV or just life in the square in general i.e the Mitchell Brothers, Den's return from the dead etc, would of being epic. Would of been great to see Arthur around too, he would of made a great Patriach, he could of been a great link to the past and being a rock for Ian in the Lucy murder storyline.

I would have loved to see Lou giving Peggy what for when she outed Mark's HIV to the whole of Walford. Would have made good viewing. I wonder what Lou would have made of Phil & Kathy as well? oh and Cindy!

Did Lou never find out Den was Vicki's dad?

Yeah and if they are going to introduce them it has to be soon because all of them will be in their 70s/early 80s. Its now or never.

She wouldn't of liked what Cindy did, what with having her Grandson Shot, Kidnapping his kids and having 2 affairs with David and Simon who were both Lou's grandson's too, she certainly liked to keep it in the family did our Cindy. Lou would of given her a right tongue lashing, she would of made her life a misery. Lou would of put Peggy in her place over the HIV reveal that is for sure and she would of let Kathy know exactly what she thought of Phil and his Alcoholism and how he knocked her about on occasions when drunk. Hell Lou would of even put Phil in his place, she wouldn't be scared of him. She would of made the residence of Albert Square quake in her boots, she was a proper old battleaxe.

The series would not have developed as it has (love it or hate it) if certain characters were still around. I can't imagine an EastEnders with Lou Beale and Peggy Mitchell. Certain characters were brought in to fill the void left by others. The Mitchells were famously brought in to take the series in a different direction after the lull period following the loss of Den and Angie. If Den and Angie were still there in 1990 the Mitchells probably wouldn't have arrived. Certainly they would have been little use to Sharon if Den and Angie were still present. There's no way Sharongate would have happened with Den and Angie around.

Great thread. It is a shame what happened to the Fowlers. Mark had gone a bit stale by the time he left but could have gone travelling and come back refreshed. He was an important link to so many other people in the square and I would argue had more purpose than say Billy. And it's daft that he died off screen. Not an expert on HIV but surely there was more dramatic potential in him passing on screen.

Agree with you all on Lou and Arthur too.

I totally agree on Mark. I think it was a rash decision by Berridge to ditch him but killing him off like that was the first sign the show was heading into an identity crisis. I'm sure I recall in an interview she gave where she expressed regret about getting rid of Roy and Mark. I also thought it was a bad move axing Lisa. Berridge introduced some good characters and I do think her era is judged unfairly BUT she also did make some bad decisions in regards to the show. I mean Lil Mo went from being one of the shows most popular characters ever to being detested overnight and all because the show decided to make her pregnant with a rapists kid. Its a shame that killed her character as Kacey seemed committed to EE for life. I always remember Kacey in an interview just after it was announced she was leaving saying 'viewers don't like Lil Mo anymore'. To go from being loved to disliked must have been hard for her I imagine. Mo and Billy should never have split up and the only child they should have been given is Janet. The downs storyline should have been Lil Mo's. Not Honey's.