bib - I think Pav would be quite happy to do so, but he was never invited to sit in any corners with anybody He's hanging out with the people who have let him hang out with them.

Erm are we forgetting that Chris and Ashleigh haven't been the nicest to Pav, in fact i would say that they been the meanest and the key orchestrators in isolating him

I dont think he would though, not that he wont have a gossip because they all do but I think he would prefer to have some fun in there along with making friends.

True

I am not forgetting, though I think that really is down to Chris rather than Ashleigh, she does seem to have just gone along with Chris's loathing of the guy which is pretty low considering if not for Pav she was a gonner in the newbie eviction.

Pav has watched the whole show, he knows how Ash and Helen are perceived. But he still prefers their company to Ashleigh and Chris. Ashleigh and Chris were also not very open to Pav, and still don't seem to be.

I didn't say it was astute to recognise Ashleigh might win. I said it was astute to see that she knows she's going to but doesn't want to say.

By the way there wasn't any criticism of her for not admitting it either by Pav or me it was purely a comment on what he'd noticed and as I say an astute one and as I also said exactly like something she would say when you would probably happiy call it astute


You could address me directly but maybe you're not actually able to address my points as your simplistic take on things suggests. It's very much part of the problem on here. Everything has to be black and white, good and bad, the insiders and the outsiders Whereas life outside somewhat reflected in BB is simply not like that.

I am able to like Pav and not like Helen I imagine many others are able to like individuals and not have to take on the whole gang. You should try it some time.

Although Helen is ghastly character she hasn't been viciously mean to Pav as Chris was. If he wants to gang out with Christopher, and especially Ashleigh unfortunately Chris is part of the package deal.

Pav has always wanted to be in the cool group but was never truly accepted, but he's actually an intellectual who would have been better suited in Chris and Ashleigh's group. It's a Shame he played it wrong.

Its more a shame that Chris openly said to Pav that he doesn't want to invest time in building a friendship with Pav. What is Pav supposed to ****ing do - the dude despite being told this still talks to him but just doesn't hang out with him 24/7 and why would he.

You tell me if someone says that to your face are you seriously telling me you would hang around with them?

Yes! All it is is more and continued bullying of Pav as far as I can see.

Pav has not joined any side. All that has happened is that he was pushed away from Chris's side by Chris's own unacceptable actions.

Anti-Pav fans are just abusing that to try and make out that Pav has chosen sides and should he change then they will make out that he is a hypocrite. (another action that Pav is being blamed for which he didn't choose and has done nothing wrong.)

It's mostly Chris's fans trying to make out that Chris's nasty actions are all Pav's fault and try to damage limit Chris's unacceptable actions.

I usually address everyone and every post directly only so much time though. What point's that post looked full of assumption and exaggeration to me. Not all what we actually heard or saw.

I like Pav.

Pav was desperate to get in the cool group right from the start, which I think may be part of the reason for Chris' hostility towards him. But yeah Chris didn't make it easy for him. I've said before that both of them could have really got on, if they gave each other a chance. Shame.

unbelievable how you still make it out that Pav is at fault. Chris said what he said and never ever gave a reason because it was because Pav wanted to be with the cool kids. He was just pissed off a new hm had come in and couldn't be asked to give him the time of day to get to know him because he already had his mates.

Pav gave Chris a chance and Chris threw it in his face by saying that to him.

Honestly anybody would be a mug to even bother trying to make friends with someone who had said something like that to them - come on OP tell me if you had someone say that to you what would you do? Would you say oh dear some of this is my fault to must try harder?

No it wasn't, it was full of facts, based on videos and the highlight show. I suggest you go back and read it and if you see things you take offense to point them out rather than throwing a blanket of criticism with no basis.

I suggest you watch things back again then. There's nothing to reply back too hence why i didn't in the first place. You added your own spin in that post. My opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree then.

Another critic just making things up as they go along. If there was any basis in this then why wouldn't Chris address this with Pav rather than tell him that he can't be bothered to get to know him and making the unfounded accusation that he was staring at Ashleigh and making her uncomfortable.

I agree that they could have got on but Chris on his own scuppered that ever happening.

Clearly, spin is quite wide spread.

Seem's that way.

But he can't possibly know that she knows she is going to win. At this stage of the game no-one inside or outside the house knows who will win unless someone has been reading the tea leaves with a little more skill than Mark. Ashleigh is not even a runaway favourite. At best she might have an inkling that she is in with a better chance than some others, she might even think she might win but Pav has no better insight on that since she has made no such claim which he admits. He is expressing an opinion which I suspect is no more than his recognition that she is a favourite to win derived from his prior knowledge.

No doubt. I'm not disagreeing. It is possibly that and the fact that she wins EVERY public vote going is making it clear that she will win. The interesting part is that Pav has noticed she 'knows' it too and why wouldn't she She knows she is winning every public decision and most keep telling her she's going to win.

That isn't what I'm talking about because that wasn't the astute point IMO. It was that Pav has noticed Ashleigh knows but isn't saying so IE she is deliberately acting as if she doesn't realise she is going to win. Like I said it wasn't even a criticism I don't believe, it's just an astute and interesting insight in to how HMs are acting / seeing things.

Erm weren't most telling Winston he was going to win up until last night ..

Wonder what Pav ( and others) would say if Ashleigh declared she was going to win .. Hardly astute really ..

Erm didn't Chris and Christopher tall Ashleigh she was going to win and hasn't Ash said so many times to Helen and the rest to which they agreed but to which Helen said Winston should win.

Thought it was more along the lines of, if she wins she doesn't deserve it. Whereas Helen and crew thought Winston had it in the bag and actually deserved it.

Ashleigh may have won recent polls from the public but Winston hadn't received boos or negativity from the focus group etc etc., Iirc it was only Mark from their side who said Ashleigh would win

Admittedly I haven't watched and studied every hm recently as much as you though

Very true - he has at different times spoken up for quite a few of them. He is his own man, and though we have seen him talking with both 'sides' in the house, IMO he was not bitching at all.
I'm not a "Pav to win" , but fair is fair.