for me Lorraine Newman as the show was so unwatchable and boring under her also she turned Sharon into a Joke, with Kirkwood we adleast got a couple of good plots.
EE who was worse kirkwood or Newman??
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Newman tried her best, she really did. When she first started as producer, it was in a big mess and took her a long time to sort out the show. Unfortunately she wasn't cut out to be a producer. I think Kirkwood was worse than Newman.
Shoot me if you want but the damage started (imo) after the LIVE episode as Santer invested so much into that episode even sacrificing characters. I'm a fan of Santer btw.
Let's hope this problem isn't reciprocated from Feb under DTC.
Let's hope this problem isn't reciprocated from Feb under DTC.
Originally Posted by Louise_Hart:
“for me Lorraine Newman as the show was so unwatchable and boring under her also she turned Sharon into a Joke, with Kirkwood we adleast got a couple of good plots.”
“for me Lorraine Newman as the show was so unwatchable and boring under her also she turned Sharon into a Joke, with Kirkwood we adleast got a couple of good plots.”
LN by far! As much as kirkwood destroyed many of the EE families, he actually gave the show some decent storylines, brought in some great characters, gave the show plenty if good episodes! His work at hollyoaks is quite good but very ott and unrealistic! He struggles to explore into things, and he can be a bit TOO sensational! on the whole he wasn't the worst they've had and I was interested a lot more in his work than I was LN! His 2010/2011 work was not that bad at all really! The shows quality back in 2011 was actually better than what it is now! He could actually be bothered to feature night shoots in summer episodes, as night shoots automatically make the quality a lot better!
Dtc is a better producer than both but he needs to work hard to restore EE back to pre2010, he hasn't got there yet! But LN definitely left a bigger mess behind, when Kirkwood was there the show still won plenty of awards, beat corrie loads and had ratings of 8-10+ million, a 35%+ share, and a bbc3 figure of 500k-1.5 million so that says it all really...
But yes he did kill off pat butcher and I will never forgive him for that, and no EastEnders fan should!
Kirkwood. Newman didn't do anything major, but she didn't inflict damage on the show that Kirkwood hadn't already started (Kat's affair.) Killing of Pat was the ultimate in irreversible damage and it's possible that the show has now lost Lucy as a result of his miscasting.
It's obvious that Newman was used as a caretaker until they could get DTC, so maybe she just wasn't allowed to go with any storylines that would have any kind of impact.
It's obvious that Newman was used as a caretaker until they could get DTC, so maybe she just wasn't allowed to go with any storylines that would have any kind of impact.
Bryan Kirkwood killed Pat but the biggest insult of all was making her final episode all about Derek Branning. For that no genuine EastEnders fan should ever forgive him.
Lorraine Newman might not have been the most exciting of producers but most of her time was spent sorting out the right royal mess that Kirkwood left EE in. We probably have no idea just how much of a mess the production team was in. Its very telling how all the writers Kirkwood brought in, bar Kate Douglas, have been ditched and many pre 2010 one's brought back.
Lorraine Newman might not have been the most exciting of producers but most of her time was spent sorting out the right royal mess that Kirkwood left EE in. We probably have no idea just how much of a mess the production team was in. Its very telling how all the writers Kirkwood brought in, bar Kate Douglas, have been ditched and many pre 2010 one's brought back.
Newman by a country mile.
Kirkwood might have made terrible decisions and came up with poor plots, but at least he had the conviction to put his mark on the show. It just turned out that wasn't what the audience wanted. If he'd have had different ideas but with the same conviction he might have been brilliant.
Newman's EE was very 'pedestrian' by comparison. If her job was to stabilise the show and undo some of the problems then by all means do that, but that's not an excuse to simply have nothing going on plot or character wise.
Kirkwood might have made terrible decisions and came up with poor plots, but at least he had the conviction to put his mark on the show. It just turned out that wasn't what the audience wanted. If he'd have had different ideas but with the same conviction he might have been brilliant.
Newman's EE was very 'pedestrian' by comparison. If her job was to stabilise the show and undo some of the problems then by all means do that, but that's not an excuse to simply have nothing going on plot or character wise.
Originally Posted by lou_123:
“LN by far! As much as kirkwood destroyed many of the EE families, he actually gave the show some decent storylines, brought in some great characters, gave the show plenty if good episodes! His work at hollyoaks is quite good but very ott and unrealistic! He struggles to explore into things, and he can be a bit TOO sensational! on the whole he wasn't the worst they've had and I was interested a lot more in his work than I was LN! His 2010/2011 work was not that bad at all really! The shows quality back in 2011 was actually better than what it is now! He could actually be bothered to feature night shoots in summer episodes, as night shoots automatically make the quality a lot better!
Dtc is a better producer than both but he needs to work hard to restore EE back to pre2010, he hasn't got there yet! But LN definitely left a bigger mess behind, when Kirkwood was there the show still won plenty of awards, beat corrie loads and had ratings of 8-10+ million, a 35%+ share, and a bbc3 figure of 500k-1.5 million so that says it all really...
But yes he did kill off pat butcher and I will never forgive him for that, and no EastEnders fan should!”
“LN by far! As much as kirkwood destroyed many of the EE families, he actually gave the show some decent storylines, brought in some great characters, gave the show plenty if good episodes! His work at hollyoaks is quite good but very ott and unrealistic! He struggles to explore into things, and he can be a bit TOO sensational! on the whole he wasn't the worst they've had and I was interested a lot more in his work than I was LN! His 2010/2011 work was not that bad at all really! The shows quality back in 2011 was actually better than what it is now! He could actually be bothered to feature night shoots in summer episodes, as night shoots automatically make the quality a lot better!
Dtc is a better producer than both but he needs to work hard to restore EE back to pre2010, he hasn't got there yet! But LN definitely left a bigger mess behind, when Kirkwood was there the show still won plenty of awards, beat corrie loads and had ratings of 8-10+ million, a 35%+ share, and a bbc3 figure of 500k-1.5 million so that says it all really...
But yes he did kill off pat butcher and I will never forgive him for that, and no EastEnders fan should!”
LOL well 1 Micheal
Originally Posted by Louise_Hart:
“LOL well 1 Micheal”
“LOL well 1 Micheal
”
Exactly!!!!
who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?
Originally Posted by lou_123:
“Exactly!!!! who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?”
“Exactly!!!!
who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?”
She didn't need to create new characters. She brought one show icon back for a short stint in the shape of David Wicks. Not to mention set up Ronnie's return.
Originally Posted by lou_123:
“Exactly!!!! who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?”
“Exactly!!!!
who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?”
LOL dunno spose Cindy is the best of a bad bunch, well shes the only one of her characters that wasn't axed anyways
Originally Posted by lou_123:
“Exactly!!!! who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?”
“Exactly!!!!
who's LN responsible for? The iconic Hartmans?”
She brought in Ben Hardy and Mimi Keene. Mimi in particular is on course to become another Lacey Turner in the making. Newman's legacy could very well end up being a great one if that comes to fruition.
Originally Posted by Kim_x:
“Kirkwood. Newman didn't do anything major, but she didn't inflict damage on the show that Kirkwood hadn't already started (Kat's affair.) Killing of Pat was the ultimate in irreversible damage and it's possible that the show has now lost Lucy as a result of his miscasting.
It's obvious that Newman was used as a caretaker until they could get DTC, so maybe she just wasn't allowed to go with any storylines that would have any kind of impact.”
“Kirkwood. Newman didn't do anything major, but she didn't inflict damage on the show that Kirkwood hadn't already started (Kat's affair.) Killing of Pat was the ultimate in irreversible damage and it's possible that the show has now lost Lucy as a result of his miscasting.
It's obvious that Newman was used as a caretaker until they could get DTC, so maybe she just wasn't allowed to go with any storylines that would have any kind of impact.”
Originally Posted by Hit Em Up Style:
“Bryan Kirkwood killed Pat but the biggest insult of all was making her final episode all about Derek Branning. For that no genuine EastEnders fan should ever forgive him.
Lorraine Newman might not have been the most exciting of producers but most of her time was spent sorting out the right royal mess that Kirkwood left EE in. We probably have no idea just how much of a mess the production team was in. Its very telling how all the writers Kirkwood brought in, bar Kate Douglas, have been ditched and many pre 2010 one's brought back.”
“Bryan Kirkwood killed Pat but the biggest insult of all was making her final episode all about Derek Branning. For that no genuine EastEnders fan should ever forgive him.
Lorraine Newman might not have been the most exciting of producers but most of her time was spent sorting out the right royal mess that Kirkwood left EE in. We probably have no idea just how much of a mess the production team was in. Its very telling how all the writers Kirkwood brought in, bar Kate Douglas, have been ditched and many pre 2010 one's brought back.”
I agree with these
Kirkwood destroyed the show, the effect of which is still on screen. In my opinion, he absolutely butchered the show within an inch of its life.
I still believe DTC was kirkwood's successor, but he was contractually unavailable, hence Lorraine Newman filling in. She sorted out a hell of a lot of mess that Kirkwood left behind. If nothing else, re-building the Beales and sorting out Kat make her the superior EP compared to Kirkwood.
I believe her job was to give DTC a clean sheet upon which he could build. She didn't make any big decisions or hasty changes, she instead stabilized the show, and whilst at the time it was frustrating to see her simply papering over the cracks, it was absolutely necessary. As a viewer, the summer of 2013 was a dreadful period of the show, but I believe it was needed to rebuild the show from the feet up.
So, in short, Kirkwood was nothing short of disastrous for EE.
I still believe DTC was kirkwood's successor, but he was contractually unavailable, hence Lorraine Newman filling in. She sorted out a hell of a lot of mess that Kirkwood left behind. If nothing else, re-building the Beales and sorting out Kat make her the superior EP compared to Kirkwood.
I believe her job was to give DTC a clean sheet upon which he could build. She didn't make any big decisions or hasty changes, she instead stabilized the show, and whilst at the time it was frustrating to see her simply papering over the cracks, it was absolutely necessary. As a viewer, the summer of 2013 was a dreadful period of the show, but I believe it was needed to rebuild the show from the feet up.
So, in short, Kirkwood was nothing short of disastrous for EE.
Originally Posted by TellMeMore:
“Kirkwood. The issues that plagued Newman's era were all a result of problems created by him.”
“Kirkwood. The issues that plagued Newman's era were all a result of problems created by him.”
This. Unlike DTC Newman didn't have the guts to make any big changes so the show just plodded along and was just as crap when she left to when she started. It was Kirkwood who did the most damage he was given the show in a very healthy condition and managed to singlehandedly destroy it with poor decision after poor decision.
Kirkwood took over a successful show and turned it into a huge mess. Seriously, go back and watch 2011 - it was AWFUL. Newman was left to pick up the pieces; she wasn't amazing but she just about stopped the show from dying.
Kirkwood was easily the worst producer the show has ever had.
Kirkwood was easily the worst producer the show has ever had.
Originally Posted by bass55:
“Kirkwood took over a successful show and turned it into a huge mess. Newman was left to pick up the pieces; she wasn't amazing but she just about stopped the show from dying.
Kirkwood was easily the worst producer the show's ever had.”
“Kirkwood took over a successful show and turned it into a huge mess. Newman was left to pick up the pieces; she wasn't amazing but she just about stopped the show from dying.
Kirkwood was easily the worst producer the show's ever had.”
I agree. I think it will take years to properly fix Eastenders after the mess Kirkwood left the show in. Maybe if Tony Jordan or Sarah Phelps ever become EP Im sure Eastenders will be fantastic. I think if Eastenders is going to survive for another 20 years we need Tony Jordan to be a EP and Sarah Phelps and maybe one of us viewers who know the show and the characters.
IMO Kirkwood ruined eveything (especially Kat - making her pregnant by Michael and cheat with Derek) except Janine and the Queen Vic fire was a good storyline but then he went and made Ben the de facto culprit for absolutely everything
Newman definetly undid alot of the damage caused by Kirkwood such as redeeming kat and Whitney etc
Newman definetly undid alot of the damage caused by Kirkwood such as redeeming kat and Whitney etc
Kirkwood.
I shouldn't need to explain, his time on the show is all the evidence I need.
Oh - and Eddie Moon.
I shouldn't need to explain, his time on the show is all the evidence I need.
Oh - and Eddie Moon.
Bryan Kirkwood by far. He seemed to be set on ruining as many characters as he possibly could. There was Stacey, who he reverted back to having affairs with married men and generally acting like a chav. There was Kat, who may well have been a brand new character because she was nothing but a gobby, heartless tart in earings. Derek Branning could have been a great character, however he completely ruined him as well. Then there was Pat, who he decided to kill for no reason whatsoever.
He gave us the awful Moon brothers and their father, who dominated every single episode for the entirety of Summer 2011 and then left.
Then there was the absolutely ludicrous baby swap storyline, which was in such poor taste and caused a lot of viewers to turn off.
His only saving graces are the character Michael Moon, and the death of Billie Jackson, even though this only happened because Kirkwood clearly didn't like Devon Anderson as he'd sacked him from Hollyoaks as well.
He gave us the awful Moon brothers and their father, who dominated every single episode for the entirety of Summer 2011 and then left.
Then there was the absolutely ludicrous baby swap storyline, which was in such poor taste and caused a lot of viewers to turn off.
His only saving graces are the character Michael Moon, and the death of Billie Jackson, even though this only happened because Kirkwood clearly didn't like Devon Anderson as he'd sacked him from Hollyoaks as well.
Originally Posted by dancing.queen:
“Bryan Kirkwood by far. He seemed to be set on ruining as many characters as he possibly could. There was Stacey, who he reverted back to having affairs with married men and generally acting like a chav. There was Kat, who may well have been a brand new character because she was nothing but a gobby, heartless tart in earings. Derek Branning could have been a great character, however he completely ruined him as well. Then there was Pat, who he decided to kill for no reason whatsoever.
He gave us the awful Moon brothers and their father, who dominated every single episode for the entirety of Summer 2011 and then left.
Then there was the absolutely ludicrous baby swap storyline, which was in such poor taste and caused a lot of viewers to turn off.
His only saving graces are the character Michael Moon, and the death of Billie Jackson, even though this only happened because Kirkwood clearly didn't like Devon Anderson as he'd sacked him from Hollyoaks as well.”
“Bryan Kirkwood by far. He seemed to be set on ruining as many characters as he possibly could. There was Stacey, who he reverted back to having affairs with married men and generally acting like a chav. There was Kat, who may well have been a brand new character because she was nothing but a gobby, heartless tart in earings. Derek Branning could have been a great character, however he completely ruined him as well. Then there was Pat, who he decided to kill for no reason whatsoever.
He gave us the awful Moon brothers and their father, who dominated every single episode for the entirety of Summer 2011 and then left.
Then there was the absolutely ludicrous baby swap storyline, which was in such poor taste and caused a lot of viewers to turn off.
His only saving graces are the character Michael Moon, and the death of Billie Jackson, even though this only happened because Kirkwood clearly didn't like Devon Anderson as he'd sacked him from Hollyoaks as well.”
Ditto. Utterly wrecked Sharon too.
Kirkwood ruined it and Newman tried to save it and this is evident in the storylines she tried to produce.
I sometimes wonder if after the babyswap debacle Kirkwood just largely stopped caring and was then intentional in his sabotage of the show?More malice and mischief rather than incompetence?
Kirkwood wasn't even that bad
It's HO that he's ruined, not EE
Some people should seriously look at what he's done to HO before ranting about his work on EE
He gave us Whitneys prostitution which was excellent, made Janine a very exciting/interesting character, Stacey and her exit SL were great IMO, he introduced some excellent characters. I for one loves Zsa Zsa, Fatboy, Vanessa, Jodie e.t.c and don't think the Moons are anywhere near as bad as people make them out to be. There were some great episodes under him.
I think his only real mistakes were Pats death and Derek's introduction. I could have done without Heathers death but that wasn't awfully bad.
LN was much worse and I hate to say it but DTC isn't much better. I'd cruelly go as far as to say Kirkwood was better than DTC on EE. But we'll see how it goes...
It's HO that he's ruined, not EE
Some people should seriously look at what he's done to HO before ranting about his work on EE
He gave us Whitneys prostitution which was excellent, made Janine a very exciting/interesting character, Stacey and her exit SL were great IMO, he introduced some excellent characters. I for one loves Zsa Zsa, Fatboy, Vanessa, Jodie e.t.c and don't think the Moons are anywhere near as bad as people make them out to be. There were some great episodes under him.
I think his only real mistakes were Pats death and Derek's introduction. I could have done without Heathers death but that wasn't awfully bad.
LN was much worse and I hate to say it but DTC isn't much better. I'd cruelly go as far as to say Kirkwood was better than DTC on EE. But we'll see how it goes...
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