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Sam Cooke and Louis Armstrong Wonderful World; are either about racism?


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Old 18-08-2014, 22:32
djfunnyman
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Both songs were written in the 60's by black artists when racism was still prominent and obviously have the same name. But are either about racism?

I personally think that the Sam Cooke song is about a black man trying to woo a white girl but she thinks he's stupid because of his skin colour. I think the Louis Armstrong song is about dreaming of a paradise where skin colour isn't an issue

Of course, racism isn't directly mentioned in either song so its possible that neither are about racism. But this is open to interpritation
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Old 19-08-2014, 07:17
thewaywardbus
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Just because a song is by a black artist does not make it about racism. Why can't they simply be a love song and a song about how beautiful nature can be????
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Old 19-08-2014, 08:21
Johnny_Cash
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Both songs were written by white men, I suspect both artists were just given the songs.
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Old 19-08-2014, 08:24
djfunnyman
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Just because a song is by a black artist does not make it about racism. Why can't they simply be a love song and a song about how beautiful nature can be????
Fair point. I only assumed that because they were both released in the 60's when racism was still rife
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Old 19-08-2014, 08:50
nathanbrazil
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Both songs were written by white men, I suspect both artists were just given the songs.
The majority of popular music from the period was actually written by white Jewish people, some very young (Carole King and Gerry Goffin) some older (Doc Pomus) but none of that matters a jot.

Neither song was about racism, they were just really good love songs celebrating the human condition.
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Old 19-08-2014, 08:54
nathanbrazil
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I personally think that the Sam Cooke song is about a black man trying to woo a white girl but ....
Sam Cooke might be alive today, if only he'd kept his winkle under control. I'm assuming you know the circumstances of his death? If not, look it up on Wikipedia.
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Old 19-08-2014, 15:53
peter_s
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I don't think either song is about racism IMO.

The Sam Cooke song was written by Herb Alpert & Lou Adler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHmtwmuQipc


The Louis Armstrong version was written by Bob Thiele & George David Weiss, & Tony Bennett was first asked to sing it - Bennett refused - It was then offered to Louis Armstrong, who accepted.

Bennett went on to record the song later in his career though.
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Old 19-08-2014, 17:13
djfunnyman
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Sam Cooke might be alive today, if only he'd kept his winkle under control. I'm assuming you know the circumstances of his death? If not, look it up on Wikipedia.
I know, its a shame he died so young
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Old 20-08-2014, 16:39
FrankBT
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Old 20-08-2014, 16:45
FrankBT
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Both songs were written in the 60's by black artists when racism was still prominent and obviously have the same name. But are either about racism?

I personally think that the Sam Cooke song is about a black man trying to woo a white girl but she thinks he's stupid because of his skin colour. I think the Louis Armstrong song is about dreaming of a paradise where skin colour isn't an issue

Of course, racism isn't directly mentioned in either song so its possible that neither are about racism. But this is open to interpritation
The Sam Cooke song is a love song, or a schoolboy crush. Nothing to do with racism

The Louis Armstrong song is about appreciating the world around you. Nothing to do with racism either

If a white guy sang either, would 'racism' even enter your thoughts?
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Old 21-08-2014, 09:24
mgvsmith
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Just because a song is by a black artist does not make it about racism. Why can't they simply be a love song and a song about how beautiful nature can be????
Both songs were written by white men, I suspect both artists were just given the songs.
White men can write about racism against black people. Wasn't 'Strange Fruit' written by a white, Jewish teacher?

Sam Cooke was involved in the writing of the song.

Fair point. I only assumed that because they were both released in the 60's when racism was still rife
It's difficult to assess how much systemic racism has really declined. You might not get a great answer from the people of Ferguson, Missouri, for example.

And I live in a place where we thought sectarianism was in decline but it raises it's awful head more often than I would like.


The majority of popular music from the period was actually written by white Jewish people, some very young (Carole King and Gerry Goffin) some older (Doc Pomus) but none of that matters a jot.

Neither song was about racism, they were just really good love songs celebrating the human condition.
The 60s was actually the period when significant numbers of artists actually wrote their own material for the first time. Songs are open to interpretation which is what you just done. But this isn't the only interpretation available, context matters as well. See below.

The Sam Cooke song is a love song, or a schoolboy crush. Nothing to do with racism

The Louis Armstrong song is about appreciating the world around you. Nothing to do with racism either

If a white guy sang either, would 'racism' even enter your thoughts?
As the OP kind of suggested once a song is out there, it is open to interpretation.
Louis Armstrong's 'What a Wonderful World' could be seen as a song looking to a hopeful outcome from a time of civil strive. But that song's meaning can change depending on context. Use it as the sound track to a video of Jihadist beheadings or starving people in Ethiopia and the song becomes ironic.

Sam Cooke's song is surely about the triumph of the heart over the head? Think about how many loveless marriages there are and the song shifts meaning a little.
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Old 06-09-2014, 22:05
djfunnyman
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White men can write about racism against black people. Wasn't 'Strange Fruit' written by a white, Jewish teacher?

Sam Cooke was involved in the writing of the song.



It's difficult to assess how much systemic racism has really declined. You might not get a great answer from the people of Ferguson, Missouri, for example.

And I live in a place where we thought sectarianism was in decline but it raises it's awful head more often than I would like.




The 60s was actually the period when significant numbers of artists actually wrote their own material for the first time. Songs are open to interpretation which is what you just done. But this isn't the only interpretation available, context matters as well. See below.



As the OP kind of suggested once a song is out there, it is open to interpretation.
Louis Armstrong's 'What a Wonderful World' could be seen as a song looking to a hopeful outcome from a time of civil strive. But that song's meaning can change depending on context. Use it as the sound track to a video of Jihadist beheadings or starving people in Ethiopia and the song becomes ironic.

Sam Cooke's song is surely about the triumph of the heart over the head? Think about how many loveless marriages there are and the song shifts meaning a little.
To sum up your point, there is no right or wrong answer as for what both songs are about
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Old 06-09-2014, 22:13
0...0
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Actually it's a fair question. I remember reading about black American singers singing love songs with double meanings eg

James Brown - Talkin Loud
Otis Redding - Respect
Aretha Franklin - Think

On the face of it songs about relationships but actually referencing the civil rights movement.
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Old 06-09-2014, 23:27
CLL Dodge
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The majority of popular music from the period was actually written by white Jewish people, some very young (Carole King and Gerry Goffin) some older (Doc Pomus) but none of that matters a jot.

Neither song was about racism, they were just really good love songs celebrating the human condition.
The white Jewish Abel Meeropol (aka Lewis Allen) wrote Strange Fruit, which is most definitely about (black) racial politics.
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Old 06-09-2014, 23:27
mgvsmith
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To sum up your point, there is no right or wrong answer as for what both songs are about
Some interpretations are more right than others. I have always thought that there was an underlying irony in the Louis Armstrong song!
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