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UTV Ireland launches Jan 2015
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irishmikee
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by chinamug:
“Primetime in My opinion is 7 to 11 in Ireland, it's probably 7-10 in the UK but we go to bed later. The trick is to win some of Prime time and UTV Ireland are winning some of it, 7-9 5 nights a week. I would presume other parts of UTV Ireland would win if they showed new shows rather than repeats. However, I am not seeing TV3 winning any of prime time on current figures (with the exception of Red Rock so far) Judge Judy at 5.00pm does better than most of it's Prime Time Schedule.”

UtvI are only winning the Corrie slots and a few of the emmerdale slots. They will not be making money on these two shows.
chinamug
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by irishmikee:
“UtvI are only winning the Corrie slots and a few of the emmerdale slots. They will not be making money on these two shows.”

That's the point, they don't need to make money on those two shows just yet. They are prepared for losses for probably 2 to 3 years. Most Media enterprises expect losses the first few years. They probably break even on those shows by the end of the year and then those slots would go into profit in year two as the rest of the station develops. People have to get used to pressing 6 or 116.

It's fairly Obvious they're not even trying to compete at the weekends just yet. They're probably focus on Saturdays once Britain's Got Talent is finished as they won't be able to beat that.

The issue here is TV3. It can't really take losses like UTV. It's a mature company that still has a lot of debt and just one asset. The BAI took away one of it's weapons. Who'd buy it now when you can start up debt free?

Ratings for TV3 since the Soaps left have been poor to say the least in Primetime. They do have Two Nights that should do well for them up to May (Saturday and Tuesday) but they'll have very little going for then into the summer. I may be mistaken but will Red Rock be on in the Summer as it's only got an order for 80 eps this year?
irishmikee
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by chinamug:
“That's the point, they don't need to make money on those two shows just yet. They are prepared for losses for probably 2 to 3 years. Most Media enterprises expect losses the first few years. They probably break even on those shows by the end of the year and then those slots would go into profit in year two as the rest of the station develops. People have to get used to pressing 6 or 116.

It's fairly Obvious they're not even trying to compete at the weekends just yet. They're probably focus on Saturdays once Britain's Got Talent is finished as they won't be able to beat that.

The issue here is TV3. It can't really take losses like UTV. It's a mature company that still has a lot of debt and just one asset. The BAI took away one of it's weapons. Who'd buy it now when you can start up debt free?

Ratings for TV3 since the Soaps left have been poor to say the least in Primetime. They do have Two Nights that should do well for them up to May (Saturday and Tuesday) but they'll have very little going for then into the summer. I may be mistaken but will Red Rock be on in the Summer as it's only got an order for 80 eps this year?”

You said they're winning primetime 7-9 five nights a week. They're not. They're winning corrie slots and some emmerdale slots. The rest of their schedule is not pulling in audiences. Utv can only sustain minor losses, they're not that big an organisation. They planned to be breaking even by the end of the year. For me they are being overly ambitious with this target with the content they are currently providing.
And yes red Rock will not be on over the summer months.
chinamug
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by irishmikee:
“You said they're winning primetime 7-9 five nights a week. They're not. They're winning corrie slots and some emmerdale slots. The rest of their schedule is not pulling in audiences. Utv can only sustain minor losses, they're not that big an organisation. They planned to be breaking even by the end of the year. For me they are being overly ambitious with this target with the content they are currently providing.
And yes red Rock will not be on over the summer months.”

They're much bigger than TV3 and that's possibly what matters. There's not room for 2 of them in the Market. At the moment nether of them is doing well in the ratings. So it comes down to who can sustain losses over the next 12 months to 2 years. I can't see RTE share of advertising being touched at the moment. Of the 10 hours a week we're talking about they're winning (in the sense ratings are were they should be or above) 6 of those ten hours. TV3 have 1 hour, the rest are divided between the two. Between 9 and 11 neither station has anything decent ratings wise.

I doubt both will be on air in 18 months, if not a lot sooner. Question is which one stumbles.
irishfeen
18-01-2015
It cannot be ignored the relatively poor EPG position UTV have on sky - 116 means the are bottom of page 2 of the TV Guide.. It's weakish schedule is made even more weak due to the fact it almost gets lost as you flick through the channel...if they were on 105 I'm sure they would be doing better.
chinamug
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by irishfeen:
“It cannot be ignored the relatively poor EPG position UTV have on sky - 116 means the are bottom of page 2 of the TV Guide.. It's weakish schedule is made even more weak due to the fact it almost gets lost as you flick through the channel...if they were on 105 I'm sure they would be doing better.”

This is true, EPG placement is important. Look at BBC1 and BBC2 which are 141 and 142. BBC 1 used to have about 10% share of viewing 10 years ago, it was down to about 4 and half last year.

One women in the office keeps missing the start of The Street. She presses 3 on Saorview and only remembers that it's now on 6 around 7.33.
stv viewer
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by chinamug:
“This is true, EPG placement is important. Look at BBC1 and BBC2 which are 141 and 142. BBC 1 used to have about 10% share of viewing 10 years ago, it was down to about 4 and half last year.

One women in the office keeps missing the start of The Street. She presses 3 on Saorview and only remembers that it's now on 6 around 7.33.”

Could UTV buy epg slot 105 on sky from Tv 3
chinamug
18-01-2015
Originally Posted by stv viewer:
“Could UTV buy epg slot 105 on sky from Tv 3”

It's not theirs to sell. However, it's also the main reason 3e will stay open in some format. If 3e were to close the argument could be made that UTV should have 105.
irishmikee
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by chinamug:
“This is true, EPG placement is important. Look at BBC1 and BBC2 which are 141 and 142. BBC 1 used to have about 10% share of viewing 10 years ago, it was down to about 4 and half last year.

One women in the office keeps missing the start of The Street. She presses 3 on Saorview and only remembers that it's now on 6 around 7.33.”

EPG placement on sky is not that important. You use the BBC as an example to fit your narrative. I mean 8 years ago RTÉ (ONE & TWO) had a 40% share of the audience, that's down to about 28-29% last year and they occupy the top two positions on the EPG. It's all about content and choice.
chinamug
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by irishmikee:
“EPG placement on sky is not that important. You use the BBC as an example to fit your narrative. I mean 8 years ago RTÉ (ONE & TWO) had a 40% share of the audience, that's down to about 28-29% last year and they occupy the top two positions on the EPG. It's all about content and choice.”

Well in fact it proves that EPG is important. In a Market that's fractured the Station that's number 1 in the ratings in Ireland is on 101, the next 2 biggest stations are on 102 and 103. It's the same in the UK, Top 5 stations are on the top 5 in the EPG.

TV3 management would agree with me, otherwise why would they have lobbied to get 3e to 105 and to number 5 on Saorview instead of Number 6?

If RTE had been on 141 and 142 instead of 101 and 102, you would have seen a far greater market share loss. Even TnaG changed their name to TG4 to make sure that they would remain fourth on EPG's and not be shoved down the list.
irishmikee
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by chinamug:
“Well in fact it proves that EPG is important. In a Market that's fractured the Station that's number 1 in the ratings in Ireland is on 101, the next 2 biggest stations are on 102 and 103. It's the same in the UK, Top 5 stations are on the top 5 in the EPG.

TV3 management would agree with me, otherwise why would they have lobbied to get 3e to 105 and to number 5 on Saorview instead of Number 6?

If RTE had been on 141 and 142 instead of 101 and 102, you would have seen a far greater market share loss. Even TnaG changed their name to TG4 to make sure that they would remain fourth on EPG's and not be shoved down the list.”

You said BBC ONE had gone from 10% share down to about 4.5% share over a decade and this was down to their 141 position on the EPG. I pointed out that RTÉ had lost an even bigger share of the audience, despite occupying the top two slots. This has nothing to do with EPG placement. It's to do with choice and content, simple.
chinamug
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by irishmikee:
“You said BBC ONE had gone from 10% share down to about 4.5% share over a decade and this was down to their 141 position on the EPG. I pointed out that RTÉ had lost an even bigger share of the audience, despite occupying the top two slots. This has nothing to do with EPG placement. It's to do with choice and content, simple.”

All mainstream stations have lost market share because of various things, (internet etc) I think that BBC1 would have lost market share if it had been on 101 but certainly not 55 percent of it's share. All mainstream broadcasters believe that EPG placement is vital. You don't, fair enough!
theeddiemundo
19-01-2015
The removal of the soaps on TV3 has given us a chance to see how other shows are doing, which we wouldn't really see ratings-wise.
From 4:30/5-7 they have the following:
Judge Judy averaging 100,000 viewers . (adults 15+)
News at 5:30 averaging 183,000 viewers
Xpose averaging 100,000 viewers (adults 15+)

That's pretty decent - especially up against RTE News and Australian soaps. Irishmikee has stated late Lunch Live has gone up 20%, so it looks like the move to an hour later has helped its cause. They'll need to find something that will go on at 7, as The Lie and Nothing To Declare can possibly be deemed a failure at this early stage. Tomorrows reveal of last weeks ratings may reveal more.

Meanwhile, comparing UTV averages from January 14 to UTV Ireland's first week:
Birds of A Feather 58,000 - 2014 || 59,000 - 2015
Midsommer Murder 55,000 - 2014 || 61,000 - 2015
Corrie 371,000 (TV3) + 82,000 (UTV) || 303,000 - 2015

A result meaning very tiny improvement on what was currently on offer through UTV already, plus a loss of nearly a third of all Corrie viewers in Ireland. No repeats of this soap at daytime around 3pm must also lose some viewers too.
omnidirectional
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by theeddiemundo:
“A result meaning very tiny improvement on what was currently on offer through UTV already, plus a loss of nearly a third of all Corrie viewers in Ireland. No repeats of this soap at daytime around 3pm must also lose some viewers too.”

Coronation Street is considered to be going through a rough patch with ratings down in the UK too.

BARB ratings for the 19:30 episode on the first Monday of January:
2014: 8,719m
2015: 7,603m
Paul_Culloty
19-01-2015
Non-story of the week courtesy of today's Irish Sun: TV3 bosses are calling foul against RTE for rescheduling Operation Transformation to "kill off" Red Rock. Hmm, one of the most competitive TV markets in Europe, and you expect a prime-time walkover from the No.1 channel?
sat-ire
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by Paul_Culloty:
“Non-story of the week courtesy of today's Irish Sun: TV3 bosses are calling foul against RTE for rescheduling Operation Transformation to "kill off" Red Rock. Hmm, one of the most competitive TV markets in Europe, and you expect a prime-time walkover from the No.1 channel?”

Of course they don't expect a walkover; what they are doing is making sure they get headlines highlighting that RTÉ are worried although they probably shoehorned in that TV licence revenue is being used to do it.

PS I haven't read the story but if they themselves actually used the words "kill off" does that not transmit the message that they have no confidence in their own product?
chinamug
19-01-2015
Originally Posted by sat-ire:
“Of course they don't expect a walkover; what they are doing is making sure they get headlines highlighting that RTÉ are worried although they probably shoehorned in that TV licence revenue is being used to do it.

PS I haven't read the story but if they themselves actually used the words "kill off" does that not transmit the message that they have no confidence in their own product?”

Again I wouldn't believe anything written in the Irish Papers. To be fair to TV3 they probably said something else and The Sun then added it's own unique Spin. Was there an actual person quoted? or was it the usual 'sources' which is often voices in a journalists head.

Having said that Red Rocks figures in week two are down a lot on week one. Wednesday they got 187,000 down from 225,000 and Most worryingly Thursday they're down to 143 from I think 188 (all figures +15 adults)

Operation Transformation on the Thursday at the same time is 364K but the surprise here is that UTV Ireland's Repeat of Birds of a feather gets 108,000 viewers at the same time as Red Rock is going out.

This was to be assumed of course. Even TV3 management said that viewership would follow a J pattern. Where you have quite a dip and if it works it will start to gain viewers. However that will take time...if it happens at all. Soaps are gamble no matter how good or bad they are.

Having looked at the rest of the ratings, it's much the same as last week. The Restaurant is the one surprise to me picking up to 170,000 viewers and could possibly be TV3's most popular programme by next week. There's still 5 eps of Judge Judy in the top 20.

I will say that neither TV3 or UTV could survive long term on their ratings which are both very low once you get past the top 11 or 12. Advertisers are not going to throw away money on shows that are not even getting 80,000 (+15 Adults) in prime time, Prices will have to drop substantially.
Paul_Culloty
20-01-2015
With Vincent Browne having two top ten slots from the "graveyard shift", there's surely a strong argument for moving him forward to 10 p.m. and perhaps starting a nightly sports show from 11-11.30?
pad_ehh
20-01-2015
I still find it surprising that Judge Judy still gets good ratings, the show has been on TV 3 since launch and is usually always in their top 10 or 20 programmes. Surely every episode must have been shown to death by now.
chinamug
20-01-2015
Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“I still find it surprising that Judge Judy still gets good ratings, the show has been on TV 3 since launch and is usually always in their top 10 or 20 programmes. Surely every episode must have been shown to death by now.”

Judge Judy is one thing they're not going to run out of, there have been 19 seasons and...4645 that's 4645 episodes made. and they're still making them.
irishmikee
25-01-2015
UTVI news at 6:30 is now averaging 28,100 viewers, down from an average of 30,600 viewers. They need to make changes to the format immediately. It's not working at all. The news reports are so incompetent and inept, the features are stale and it offers nothing new compared to RTE and TV3. Say what you will about TV3's production values, but it offers something different to RTE, it's competent and we'll put together for what it is. TV3 evening news averaging 177,200 and RTE evening news averaging 517,000 viewers since UTVI launched.
irishmikee
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by chinamug:
“Judge Judy is one thing they're not going to run out of, there have been 19 seasons and...4645 that's 4645 episodes made. and they're still making them.”

Just seen that!!! Wowsers that's a whole lotta Judge Judy, that's about 245 shows a year. Although they usually film 3 or 4 of these in a day. Isn't she one of the highest paid tv stars in the world? No wonder!!
theeddiemundo
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by irishmikee:
“UTVI news at 6:30 is now averaging 28,100 viewers, down from an average of 30,600 viewers. They need to make changes to the format immediately. It's not working at all. The news reports are so incompetent and inept, the features are stale and it offers nothing new compared to RTE and TV3. Say what you will about TV3's production values, but it offers something different to RTE, it's competent and we'll put together for what it is. TV3 evening news averaging 177,200 and RTE evening news averaging 517,000 viewers since UTVI launched.”

News at 6.30 will never work - just look at the amount of viewers that RTE1 News gets between 6-7. They need to offer an alternative. It's hard to change peoples habits to stop watching news at 6, and wait half an hour for UTVi's news. Those who've watched (and there is a lot) the news on TV3 and RTE, will probably not be interested in hearing the same headlines a half an hour later. I can see them quickly moving it to possibly 5.30, and put The Chase on at 6.
Paul_Culloty
25-01-2015
The same article interestingly advised them to follow the CBS approach and have an investigative/analytical broadcast. Certainly, viewers will stick with RTE for basic news, but the 10 p.m. programme seems to be modelled on the suggestion, to no immediate benefit.
irishfeen
25-01-2015
UTV on future Sports rights -

@irishfeen @MW_UTV We cover all sports on Ireland Live News for now and will be looking at rights packages as they become available

On ITV being listed yesterday -

@irishfeen @MW_UTV Hi this was an error in listings apologies for any inconvenience caused and thanks for flagging this with us.

I think we could very well see UTV going out hard against Setanta for 3pm PL games - they are basically the only sports rights on the horizon.. it would be hard for them to win the rights but potentially a big coup
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