Exactly!

And I don't understand the statement *insert character A or character B is not a good representation of gay people*. Since when has television had to rely on good representation? We could sit here until the cows come home arguing which characters are a good representation and which aren't.

Sexuality doesn't even come into it like a minority on here may like to think.

Coming out stories and homophobia have been done to death. Having a same sex couple raising children (and I am not talking babies here) could be interesting if they explored the effects on the child.

But other than that, there is not a huge difference.

Box ticking and tokenism pisses me off.

I know someone from work who is a complete arsehole and any time he has a confrontation with a straight person, he immediately accuses them of homophobia. It's sad when this happens and causes more harm than good really. I have not seen Sean's tweets but I am wondering if the same thing is happening here?

Since the time when there were almost no gay characters on TV, and every one was scrutinised. That was when representation, rightly or wrongly, was a big issue.

Luckily, that's in the past. The fact that it doesn't seem to matter any more is just a reflection that old battles have been won, coming out stories have been told, and it's no longer a big deal. It's a great position to be in. Characters are now either just good or rubbish, likable or unlikable. It's not about ticking boxes though - if there were no gay characters in a soap at all, I'd find that downright strange.

I find it more strange that when one gay person leaves another arrives.

Now that is just weird. Clunky and embarrassing. Say no to quotas.

Tbh, I was thinking, probably the most groundbreaking gay couple were Colin and Barry on original Enders. Then Section 28 came in and turned the clock back decades. Dark times.

Didn't section 28 only apply to local councils? Why should it affect the BBC, and was it ever actually used?

I don't really care about gay characters being easy to relate to because it's a soap but I do think Hollyoaks does it brilliantly, not just gay characters but the portrayal of intimate scenes, cuddling, kissing, holding hands just showing normal behavior between a couple, they do it really easily.

One thing I do find really wrong with soaps is they'll have a gay character who is the only 1 or 2 of the show but then they'll have that character seem to have no gay friends at all, so like if they invite people to a party or to go out they'll be friends with a lot of straight people when in reality 1 gay person would have at least 1 gay friend and would definitely have a boyfriend, then their boyfriend would have gay friends.

So, there's never any scenes were the gay character has a bunch of gay people around them which isn't realistic at all because that is quite normal, not saying that gay people and straight people can't be friends just it's rare for a gay person to just have interactions with straight people.

Technically, yes, it was just supposed to be local councils, and no prosecutions were ever brought as far as I know. But it caused an absolutely vile homophobic atmosphere, and loads of public bodies (specially ones like the beeb that were fighting for public money) started self-censoring. Horrible, horrible times.

So true.

And most newspapers were just as bad; I remember the Sun headline "EastBenders", when Colin kissed Barry. On his forehead!

Christ, The Sun. *eye roll* They really did. They play to every bit of bigotry they can find. Pricks.

Awwww. Millions of people saw that kiss though. And look where we are now. So f*ck The Sun.

I thought EEs Colin and Barry were overrated.

Colin arrives all mysterious like. Viewers could only guess at what he was hiding (ex-criminal perhaps?)

After all the secrecy, when he was revealed as gay it was like an anti climax (is that all? Why would the EE producers make it such a big secret and for so long?) At the time I was also a fan of Australian soap Prisoner which had had lesbian characters for years and had a gay male regular in 1984 so it was hardly a new thing in soaps as far as I was concerned.

Barry was always uncomfortable being gay, and after a brief period of guarded domestic bliss with Colin, he turned straight partnering up with a young woman who bravely insisted to all and sundry that Barry had left all that gay stuff behind him. Barry soon left the series and Colin was gone soon after. I think Colin, who stayed longest, was only in the series about 3 years-not really that long.

I only want to see well written, well rounded characters

That is disgusting. Sean Tully is a soap legend.

bib: Only in Anthony Cotton's mind.

The bit in bold - I couldn't disagree more. Not because I have the biggest crush on Johnny/Sam. Not because that storyline inspired me to come out. But because Johnny coming out was a massive game changer for EastEnders after the Newman stuff - and many will agree on that. The way it was handled and how Johnny is is very close to home for me - I came out and now I'm fairly open about my sexuality to those who I feel comfortable around. If Johnny had come in already gay he - and tbh the Carters wouldn't have had the same impact as they have had; additionally it would have had an entirely different take on Johnny as a character. The storyline itself is Johnny as a young under confident gay man coming out and exploring his sexuality; growing into an adult and getting more confident in himself - something so real and natural to many young gay men and women in the world today - myself included. That storyline, and specifically the scene where Johnny came out on Mick was where the gamble that is the Carters paid off massively for EastEnders. I'll admit Johnny losing his virginity and potentially going off to Italy with an Italian man he met at Gay Pride was a little fast - they only met a couple of times - but it furthers the storyline of Johnny exploring his sexuality more - and again they have done a great and very natural seeming job with this storyline.

The all time best gay storyline in a British Soap though has to be the McDean storyline in HO. It was just amazing. I kinda hope Johnny has a storyline of that success with another gay male character (not Ben) in EastEnders.

He has won awards for playing Sean Tully.

But relationships and sex are an important part of soaps, one day hopefully we will get to the stage where whether they or straight or gay will be irrelevant. We're not there yet though and I think that it is good to have gay characters in soaps, if there were none I would wonder why they were invisible.

I agree with this.

There was a gay couple in EE in the mid/late 1990s, Tiffany's brother and his bisexual boyfriend

Abuse is not, though i personally can't stand him. What annoys me the most is that he clearly knows some things about people higher up, otherwise he and his character would of been long gone by now.

I wouldn't say they were the best characters ever - the fact that they existed at all was enough at the time. Interesting that gay characters were already on screen in Australia, but in the UK they were practically invisible, or treated as some exotic sub-species, like Quentin Crisp. Not something millions saw in their living rooms after eating their tea. So they really did matter.

It would be nice for a soap to have a same sex couple whose sexuality had nothing to do with their storylines - just a regular couple living their lives, no homophobia, no dragged out coming out scenes, no family disapproval etc. They could have soap-like storylines of course but just none related specifically to their sexuality.

Because in the real world that does exist. Gay people don't have their entire lives revolving around their sexuality generally (other than who they sleep with/are married to etc).

So what? Kate Ford has won awards for playing Tracy Barlow. Only proves that sometimes, the least deserving people can win. Cotton and Ford being prime examples.

Neither of them are soap legends. The likes of Pat Phoenix and Jean Alexander are (using a football analogy), Premier League. Cotton is Sky Bet Division 2,

Your continual defence of Sean is good for a laugh though. Keep it up!

Yes. Simon Raymond and Tony Hills (a cousin of Ian's). They were as soppy as Christian & Syed!

And, just like Colin and Barry before them, there was a newspaper frenzy when they first kissed (the scene was cut as a result).