Panasonic DMR-EX769 yellow tone & ghosting

Robert_Gourley · 22-08-2014, 12:35

I've had a Panasonic DMR-EX769 recorder for 4-5 years, and am curious about an issue. Since I've had my current TV (also a Panasonic) and I think on our presious TV (looking back), both of which my parents did the connection work for, there has always been a yellow tone for the colour scheme. I'd be curious if this is the box, the connection between the box and TV or the TV? Trying to fix the issue that I had been fed up for years earlier today, I replaced the cable with another of the same sort that I managed to find lying around the house, and the issue is only slightly better, but in addition, there is now "vertical line ghosting" moving slowly from right to left of various pictures that the output of the box had been playing previously. Due to the position of the stand that the box is kept within, it's practically impossible to rotate the table or box, meaning that what I'm doing round the back is all based on feel... What's causing the issue? The TV is fine when on the built in Freeview mode...

chrisjr · 22-08-2014, 12:50

How exactly is the recorder connected to the telly? If you are using SCART what video format is it set to use? Most will have a choice of Composite (may be called PAL, CVBS or just plain Video) and RGB with perhaps S-Video.

If using SCART and RGB video format there is a chance the lead is faulty or one of the plugs not seated correctly in the socket. And of course it might be the socket on either the recorder or telly at fault.

The ghosting is probably being caused by using a cheap and nasty SCART lead. The decent ones use individually screened wires for each of the audio and video signals. Poor ones use unscreened wires. Unscreened wires are much more prone to cross talk interference, where a signal on one wire is induced onto another. SCART can carry signals in two directions so a poorly made lead can generate cross talk interference from the signals flowing from TV to recorder onto the signals flowing from recorder to TV and vice versa!

So use a good quality fully screened SCART and make sure it is properly seated in the sockets and select RGB for the best picture quality.

But if you are having problems the only way to work out where is to use a process of substitution. Which may be easier said than done. So swap cables first as that is easiest. If that makes no difference try plugging the recorder into another TV using the same cable. If that cures the problem then the original TV is at fault. If not it could be the recorder. To eliminate the recorder plug some other device, eg a DVD player, Sky box Freeview PVR or whatever into the TV using the same cable on the same SCART input. If that is fine then the recorder is at fault.

Usually however most faults if you are using SCART are due to the cable, which is the cheapest and easiest part of the chain to swap out.

Oh, and of course it could simply be down to the settings of the TV. Most modern TVs let you set colour, contrast etc separately for each input. So might be worth checking the set-up of the telly and seeing if that can correct the issue.

Robert_Gourley · 23-08-2014, 18:05

So I've replaced the SCART lead with an HDMI connector (which both my TV and box support), and the picture is now much better. I'm just wondering why the SCART feed came on instantly when I switched from TV to AV1 on my TV, but when going into HDMI 1, it comes on dark for a second, then as soon as it displays the signal name, it goes normal, so it takes a couple of seconds to come on properly)? Is this a normal factor with HDMI connectors, or is something not wired up correctly?

Nigel Goodwin · 23-08-2014, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley

So I've replaced the SCART lead with an HDMI connector (which both my TV and box support), and the picture is now much better. I'm just wondering why the SCART feed came on instantly when I switched from TV to AV1 on my TV, but when going into HDMI 1, it comes on dark for a second, then as soon as it displays the signal name, it goes normal, so it takes a couple of seconds to come on properly)? Is this a normal factor with HDMI connectors, or is something not wired up correctly?

It's normal - it's the HDMI handshaking, and also the copy protection (HDCP) making sure it's all OK.

There's no handshaking or copy protection via SCART, hence it's instant, although if you're getting a substantially better picture then there was something wrong with your SCART connection anyway.

Robert_Gourley · 23-08-2014, 22:38

What is the copy protection system for? Most TVs don't have way to record within, and we get Freeview + boxes anyway...

chrisjr · 23-08-2014, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley

What is the copy protection system for? Most TVs don't have way to record within, and we get Freeview + boxes anyway...

HDCP is meant to prevent you plugging a Blu-Ray player into a recorder and making high quality copies of disks for example.

Though it is largely rendered irrelevant by the fact that no recorder I am aware of has any HDMI inputs anyway.

Robert_Gourley · 24-08-2014, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

HDCP is meant to prevent you plugging a Blu-Ray player into a recorder and making high quality copies of disks for example.

Though it is largely rendered irrelevant by the fact that no recorder I am aware of has any HDMI inputs anyway.

Is it still possible to make SD copies of discs? Also, if you have a PC Blu-Ray ROM drive, can't you just import the discs using VLC Media Player or something else that can rip DVDs?

chrisjr · 24-08-2014, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley

Is it still possible to make SD copies of discs? Also, if you have a PC Blu-Ray ROM drive, can't you just import the discs using VLC Media Player or something else that can rip DVDs?

In theory you could make a SD copy. Though quite a few Blu-Ray players I've looked at don't have SCART sockets which could complicate things. And even so there are copy protection schemes for analogue audio/video connections such as SCART. Google Macrovision for one such system.

Of course if you could rip a disk on a PC it would be perfectly possible to make a perfect copy of the disk. Though giving details of how to do this is frowned upon in these parts ) Not to mention being illegal.

Robert_Gourley · 24-08-2014, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

In theory you could make a SD copy. Though quite a few Blu-Ray players I've looked at don't have SCART sockets which could complicate things. And even so there are copy protection schemes for analogue audio/video connections such as SCART. Google Macrovision for one such system.

Of course if you could rip a disk on a PC it would be perfectly possible to make a perfect copy of the disk. Though giving details of how to do this is frowned upon in these parts ) Not to mention being illegal.

I've not got a BluRay player, but wasn't ripping DVDs/CDs/BluRay discs for personal use legalized a couple of months ago in the UK?

chrisjr · 24-08-2014, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley

I've not got a BluRay player, but wasn't ripping DVDs/CDs/BluRay discs for personal use legalized a couple of months ago in the UK?

It was meant to have been but some committee or other of MPs delayed it. It might come into force on 1st October though

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...-copyright-law

Nigel Goodwin · 24-08-2014, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

Though quite a few Blu-Ray players I've looked at don't have SCART sockets which could complicate things.

I thought pretty well none did?, athough a small number of the early ones might have - essentially it's an American system, and they never used SCART

But basically there's no point anyway, HDMI is taking over from SCART, and most BD players do have phono AV out (for the poorest quality SD possible

).

I think most don't even bother with Component now, it takes up far too much space, and of cause is being replaced by HDMI just as SCART is.

Robert_Gourley · 26-08-2014, 10:45

Also, since upgrading to HDMI, the picture colour is a lot better, but when watching DVDs there is more pixelation dithering visible than before. Is this because I am watching an HD feed on an HD TV with a non-HD picture, but if using an analogue feed, the pixels are blurred more due to interference?

chrisjr · 26-08-2014, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley

Also, since upgrading to HDMI, the picture colour is a lot better, but when watching DVDs there is more pixelation dithering visible than before. Is this because I am watching an HD feed on an HD TV with a non-HD picture, but if using an analogue feed, the pixels are blurred more due to interference?

If using HDMI then either the disk player or the TV is doing the upscaling from SD to HD resolution. If using SCART the TV is doing the upscaling. What sort of image quality you get as a result can depend on how well the device doing the upscaling works. Plus with SCART oyu have additional analogue/digital conversion stages to go through which might affect things to some degree. And there is the added issue of whether you use Composite or RGB video modes which will also have an effect on image quality.

You can usually tell if the player is doing the upscaling by looking in the settings menu. There are often several options for what image format it chucks up the HDMI lead. If it is set to 1080i/p then it is doing the scaling. If set to 720p then the player will be doing some scaling and the TV a bit more (if the TV is 1080 resolution). If set to 576i then the TV is doing the scaling. If there is an Auto setting then it may feed 576i to the TV and the TV does the scaling.

So there might be some mileage in changing the settings of the player to see if it makes any significant difference what output resolution you use.

22-08-2014, 12:35	#1
Robert_Gourley Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 79	Panasonic DMR-EX769 yellow tone & ghosting I've had a Panasonic DMR-EX769 recorder for 4-5 years, and am curious about an issue. Since I've had my current TV (also a Panasonic) and I think on our presious TV (looking back), both of which my parents did the connection work for, there has always been a yellow tone for the colour scheme. I'd be curious if this is the box, the connection between the box and TV or the TV? Trying to fix the issue that I had been fed up for years earlier today, I replaced the cable with another of the same sort that I managed to find lying around the house, and the issue is only slightly better, but in addition, there is now "vertical line ghosting" moving slowly from right to left of various pictures that the output of the box had been playing previously. Due to the position of the stand that the box is kept within, it's practically impossible to rotate the table or box, meaning that what I'm doing round the back is all based on feel... What's causing the issue? The TV is fine when on the built in Freeview mode...

22-08-2014, 12:50	#2
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	How exactly is the recorder connected to the telly? If you are using SCART what video format is it set to use? Most will have a choice of Composite (may be called PAL, CVBS or just plain Video) and RGB with perhaps S-Video. If using SCART and RGB video format there is a chance the lead is faulty or one of the plugs not seated correctly in the socket. And of course it might be the socket on either the recorder or telly at fault. The ghosting is probably being caused by using a cheap and nasty SCART lead. The decent ones use individually screened wires for each of the audio and video signals. Poor ones use unscreened wires. Unscreened wires are much more prone to cross talk interference, where a signal on one wire is induced onto another. SCART can carry signals in two directions so a poorly made lead can generate cross talk interference from the signals flowing from TV to recorder onto the signals flowing from recorder to TV and vice versa! So use a good quality fully screened SCART and make sure it is properly seated in the sockets and select RGB for the best picture quality. But if you are having problems the only way to work out where is to use a process of substitution. Which may be easier said than done. So swap cables first as that is easiest. If that makes no difference try plugging the recorder into another TV using the same cable. If that cures the problem then the original TV is at fault. If not it could be the recorder. To eliminate the recorder plug some other device, eg a DVD player, Sky box Freeview PVR or whatever into the TV using the same cable on the same SCART input. If that is fine then the recorder is at fault. Usually however most faults if you are using SCART are due to the cable, which is the cheapest and easiest part of the chain to swap out. Oh, and of course it could simply be down to the settings of the TV. Most modern TVs let you set colour, contrast etc separately for each input. So might be worth checking the set-up of the telly and seeing if that can correct the issue.

23-08-2014, 18:05	#3
Robert_Gourley Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 79	So I've replaced the SCART lead with an HDMI connector (which both my TV and box support), and the picture is now much better. I'm just wondering why the SCART feed came on instantly when I switched from TV to AV1 on my TV, but when going into HDMI 1, it comes on dark for a second, then as soon as it displays the signal name, it goes normal, so it takes a couple of seconds to come on properly)? Is this a normal factor with HDMI connectors, or is something not wired up correctly?

23-08-2014, 20:30	#4
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley So I've replaced the SCART lead with an HDMI connector (which both my TV and box support), and the picture is now much better. I'm just wondering why the SCART feed came on instantly when I switched from TV to AV1 on my TV, but when going into HDMI 1, it comes on dark for a second, then as soon as it displays the signal name, it goes normal, so it takes a couple of seconds to come on properly)? Is this a normal factor with HDMI connectors, or is something not wired up correctly? It's normal - it's the HDMI handshaking, and also the copy protection (HDCP) making sure it's all OK. There's no handshaking or copy protection via SCART, hence it's instant, although if you're getting a substantially better picture then there was something wrong with your SCART connection anyway.

23-08-2014, 22:38	#5
Robert_Gourley Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 79	What is the copy protection system for? Most TVs don't have way to record within, and we get Freeview + boxes anyway...

23-08-2014, 23:27	#6
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley What is the copy protection system for? Most TVs don't have way to record within, and we get Freeview + boxes anyway... HDCP is meant to prevent you plugging a Blu-Ray player into a recorder and making high quality copies of disks for example. Though it is largely rendered irrelevant by the fact that no recorder I am aware of has any HDMI inputs anyway.

24-08-2014, 08:19	#7
Robert_Gourley Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 79	Quote: Originally Posted by chrisjr HDCP is meant to prevent you plugging a Blu-Ray player into a recorder and making high quality copies of disks for example. Though it is largely rendered irrelevant by the fact that no recorder I am aware of has any HDMI inputs anyway. Is it still possible to make SD copies of discs? Also, if you have a PC Blu-Ray ROM drive, can't you just import the discs using VLC Media Player or something else that can rip DVDs?

24-08-2014, 10:23	#8
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley Is it still possible to make SD copies of discs? Also, if you have a PC Blu-Ray ROM drive, can't you just import the discs using VLC Media Player or something else that can rip DVDs? In theory you could make a SD copy. Though quite a few Blu-Ray players I've looked at don't have SCART sockets which could complicate things. And even so there are copy protection schemes for analogue audio/video connections such as SCART. Google Macrovision for one such system. Of course if you could rip a disk on a PC it would be perfectly possible to make a perfect copy of the disk. Though giving details of how to do this is frowned upon in these parts ) Not to mention being illegal.

24-08-2014, 12:23	#9
Robert_Gourley Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 79	Quote: Originally Posted by chrisjr In theory you could make a SD copy. Though quite a few Blu-Ray players I've looked at don't have SCART sockets which could complicate things. And even so there are copy protection schemes for analogue audio/video connections such as SCART. Google Macrovision for one such system. Of course if you could rip a disk on a PC it would be perfectly possible to make a perfect copy of the disk. Though giving details of how to do this is frowned upon in these parts ) Not to mention being illegal. I've not got a BluRay player, but wasn't ripping DVDs/CDs/BluRay discs for personal use legalized a couple of months ago in the UK?

24-08-2014, 13:16	#10
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley I've not got a BluRay player, but wasn't ripping DVDs/CDs/BluRay discs for personal use legalized a couple of months ago in the UK? It was meant to have been but some committee or other of MPs delayed it. It might come into force on 1st October though https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...-copyright-law

24-08-2014, 13:41	#11
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by chrisjr Though quite a few Blu-Ray players I've looked at don't have SCART sockets which could complicate things. I thought pretty well none did?, athough a small number of the early ones might have - essentially it's an American system, and they never used SCART But basically there's no point anyway, HDMI is taking over from SCART, and most BD players do have phono AV out (for the poorest quality SD possible ). I think most don't even bother with Component now, it takes up far too much space, and of cause is being replaced by HDMI just as SCART is.

26-08-2014, 10:45	#12
Robert_Gourley Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 79	Also, since upgrading to HDMI, the picture colour is a lot better, but when watching DVDs there is more pixelation dithering visible than before. Is this because I am watching an HD feed on an HD TV with a non-HD picture, but if using an analogue feed, the pixels are blurred more due to interference?

26-08-2014, 11:12	#13
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert_Gourley Also, since upgrading to HDMI, the picture colour is a lot better, but when watching DVDs there is more pixelation dithering visible than before. Is this because I am watching an HD feed on an HD TV with a non-HD picture, but if using an analogue feed, the pixels are blurred more due to interference? If using HDMI then either the disk player or the TV is doing the upscaling from SD to HD resolution. If using SCART the TV is doing the upscaling. What sort of image quality you get as a result can depend on how well the device doing the upscaling works. Plus with SCART oyu have additional analogue/digital conversion stages to go through which might affect things to some degree. And there is the added issue of whether you use Composite or RGB video modes which will also have an effect on image quality. You can usually tell if the player is doing the upscaling by looking in the settings menu. There are often several options for what image format it chucks up the HDMI lead. If it is set to 1080i/p then it is doing the scaling. If set to 720p then the player will be doing some scaling and the TV a bit more (if the TV is 1080 resolution). If set to 576i then the TV is doing the scaling. If there is an Auto setting then it may feed 576i to the TV and the TV does the scaling. So there might be some mileage in changing the settings of the player to see if it makes any significant difference what output resolution you use.

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Panasonic DMR-EX769 yellow tone & ghosting