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NFL - UK Broadcasting Thread
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Ads
28-07-2015
I am sure Sky would gladly take it, but it's a bit worrying for the sport that no terrestrial channel is interested in picking it up.
mavreela
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“BT Sport… would have been able to show ESPN's Monday Night NFL Countdown from 11pm in advance of the game and their half time show - plus it would be able to repeat the game during daytime and peak hours the following day etc.”

And yet they never did. So why would they be interested in SNF if they were not interested in MNF?

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“That was a great show - now seemingly stymied by Sky's NFL deal.”

Absolutely nothing to do with Sky. NASN used to pay for the rights to include NFL support programming. Once ESPN took over they decided to stop paying for the rights.

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“BT Sport would be a logical place for some NFL coverage precisely because it does have significant numbers of US Sports fans.”

That is precisely why it makes no sense.

If US sport fans are already subscribing it will not bring in many new subscribers. It will clash with their existing coverage of US sport dividing an already small audience. And whilst they are the exclusive TV channel for MLB, NBA, and NCAA sports, they will only be able to offer a regular season NFL game in a low rating slot.

There is no commercial argument for BT Sport paying for SNF. And none for the NFL giving it away for free to anything other than a FTA service.

Originally Posted by chrisfinch:
“For a FTA broadcaster to do that would look ridiculously cheap and you’d get loads of the audience turning off, and even at 4 in the morning, no broadcaster is going to allow two minutes of static stadium shots on screen per 5-10 minutes of actual game footage.”

When MNF was on BBC Red Button for the first half of the season they simply showed graphics with stats or bits of filler video (from the NFL 360 site) during the breaks. I believe the NFL then funded the (budget) studio with Darren Fletcher and Rocky Boiman which took over for the rest of the season.

Originally Posted by chrisfinch:
“Cutting to ad breaks every single time has the same effect of turning viewers off, and would almost certainly break advertising laws.”

A commercial PSB can follow the break patterns of an originating broadcaster despite whether they otherwise violate Ofcom's code just the same as any other service. They cannnot show paid advertising beyond the allowed limits, but they can still fill breaks with trailers, as Channel 4 sometimes did during its SNF coverage.
hendero
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by mavreela:
“ And yet they never did. So why would they be interested in SNF if they were not interested in MNF?”

SNF is generally a better game than MNF. Wasn't always that way, but the Sunday night game is now typically one of the better games of the week. Plus it follows on the back of the two Sunday evening games on Sky. And Channel 4 seemed to have a reason to favour the Sunday over the Monday game.

Originally Posted by mavreela:
“That is precisely why it makes no sense.

If US sport fans are already subscribing it will not bring in many new subscribers. It will clash with their existing coverage of US sport dividing an already small audience. And whilst they are the exclusive TV channel for MLB, NBA, and NCAA sports, they will only be able to offer a regular season NFL game in a low rating slot.

There is no commercial argument for BT Sport paying for SNF. And none for the NFL giving it away for free to anything other than a FTA service.”

It might make the difference for some fans of American football who aren't tempted by just the college game on ESPN. It's additional, credible (ie not WTA satellite tournaments), live content for BT Sport/ESPN , at a time when there isn't much other live sport available. There's not much overlap with baseball, and even if there was, they could have baseball on one channel, NFL on another. It doesn't clash with US college games, virtually no live European sport is on during NFL Sunday night or Monday night games.

Plus ESPN has a very close relationship with the NFL in the US, so them picking up some of the UK rights doesn't seem like an impossibility. My preference would be for someone like ITV4 to get them, and failing that Sky to expand their portfolio, but BT/ESPN doesn't seem inconceivable. Might be too late for them to get on board this year, although the NFL seems to like getting its UK TV deals done as the opening kickoff of the first regular season game is in the air.
Radiomike
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by mavreela:
“And yet they never did. So why would they be interested in SNF if they were not interested in MNF?”

The quality of the games on offer, the reduced cost of the rights, a simple change of thinking on their part. Then again they might indeed not be bothered.

BT Sport ESPN would however be a natural home for NFL.

I would also make the point that if you look at my first post on this subject you will see that I was replying to someone enquiring as to whether BT Sport might be interested. The point I was making was that MNF was a more logical fit for BT Sport because of the ESPN connection. I never said they would be interested in SNF.
Radiomike
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by mavreela:
“Absolutely nothing to do with Sky. NASN used to pay for the rights to include NFL support programming. Once ESPN took over they decided to stop paying for the rights.”

Are you sure about that? ESPN America in the UK showed Sunday NFL Countdown for at least two seasons after ESPN took over NASN. It also showed other ESPN magazine shows and live NFL on ESPN America in parts of Europe. Problems arose with those shows in the UK once the NHL and NFL deals completed around 2012/13 came into being and ESPN America couldn't show clips from those sports in the UK. Not necessarily down to Sky alone but certainly to the deals done with other broadcasters by US sports.
kevthelutonbee
28-07-2015
I have been led to believe that the coverage will be FTA
packerbully
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“Are you sure about that? ESPN America in the UK showed Sunday NFL Countdown for at least two seasons after ESPN took over NASN. It also showed other ESPN magazine shows and live NFL on ESPN America in parts of Europe. Problems arose with those shows in the UK once the NHL and NFL deals completed around 2012/13 came into being and ESPN America couldn't show clips from those sports in the UK. Not necessarily down to Sky alone but certainly to the deals done with other broadcasters by US sports.”

You are correct. ESPN America showed NFL programming, until Sky put a stranglehold on it.

Skys coverage is poor and I wish that they would at least not talk over pre game interviews from the stadium, not cut back late after advert breaks and not talk over commentary. They really are quite amateurish for doing this. I have other gripes, but they could start out by sorting these.
Oh and also show more NFL programming like NFL Total Access live during the season and off season. WE had that one week before the Super Bowl when they did.
ukdude7
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by kevthelutonbee:
“I have been led to believe that the coverage will be FTA”

Likely back on the BBC then?

Can't see ITV getting it during Rugby World Cup year other than the Super Bowl & maybe SNF on ITV4.
Gray77
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by packerbully:
“Skys coverage is poor and I wish that they would at least not talk over pre game interviews from the stadium, not cut back late after advert breaks and not talk over commentary. They really are quite amateurish for doing this. I have other gripes, but they could start out by sorting these.
Oh and also show more NFL programming like NFL Total Access live during the season and off season. WE had that one week before the Super Bowl when they did.”

I agree with all of that. If there isn't a top top game on Sky I will watch another on Gamepass just so I can avoid the inane Cadle and all of the times they talk over the game. They have the attitude of 'none of you know about the NFL, we are here to show you what to enjoy and we don't show you the stuff that you won't be interested in.' So, we get almost no pictures of the stadium before the actual kick off; we get Cadle and Reynolds talking over the comms instead of just coming back to the point at the next break; we have ad breaks that end up with us missing parts of the game; we get the incessant hyperbole about the Wembley games, the list goes on.

But, they show a lot of games, they show all the play off games, and they don't need to. They probably don't get many unique subscribers just for NFL, so I can't knock them for showing it in the depth that they do. I just wish they'd appreciate that the people who do watch it are quite into it and want to see the coverage the way it is intended to be. But, ah well.
Ads
28-07-2015
ITV4 seems the most obvious FTA fit? I assume the NFL would really prefer one of the five main channels though in terms of exposure.
Regis Magnae
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by Ads:
“I am sure Sky would gladly take it, but it's a bit worrying for the sport that no terrestrial channel is interested in picking it up.”

I think it shows the reality of how (un)popular the sport is in the UK.

It reminds me of how F1's popularity was regularly vastly overstated 10 years ago, when a person watching the news coverage was counted as a fan.
JCR
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by walterwhite:
“Or 50% of their games as I like to call it.”

Look I thought Sky didn't care because the 1am UK time games aren't blocked on gamepass.

And frankly anyone not paying the £130 a year for gamepass isn't a proper fan and deserves the crap tv coverage they get.
mavreela
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“The point I was making was that MNF was a more logical fit for BT Sport because of the ESPN connection. I never said they would be interested in SNF.”

Apologies, I did misread that.

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“Are you sure about that? ESPN America in the UK showed Sunday NFL Countdown for at least two seasons after ESPN took over NASN.”

Yes. Obviously when they took over existing contracts were already in place, but ESPN assumed control of NASN in 2007 and that was either the final season they showed NFL content like Sunday Countdown, or the first without.

After ESPN took over they cut costs significantly, not renewing any rights beyond the major ones with the MLB, NHL, and CBS (for the SEC). All other content being that to which they already owned the rights. Hence the dropping of things like the CFL and a few other outside contracts they had at the time.

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“It also showed other ESPN magazine shows and live NFL on ESPN America in parts of Europe. Problems arose with those shows in the UK once the NHL and NFL deals completed around 2012/13 came into being and ESPN America couldn't show clips from those sports in the UK.”

Because they had live NFL rights in Europe those allowed them to show other programming, they did not need a separate highlights contract for those territories.

And it was in 2007 that ATH and PTI stopped showing clips. Both Henry Hodgson (hank) and Alistair Kirkwood both stated at the time on the NFL UK site that the decision by not to renew the rights NASN previously held was made by ESPN for their own reasons, not because they were no longer available.

Originally Posted by hendero:
“SNF is generally a better game than MNF.”

Jacksonville vs Tennessee at 6pm would outrate Brady vs Manning on SNF because of the time zones. That SNF is one of the biggest games of the week means far less in the UK than the time zone.

The sorts of people who watch at 1:30am on a work day are those who will watch pretty much everything regardless, or at least pick and chose selected matchups. And the latter are not likely to subscribe to a service just in case they may want to watch. There are not many people who will watch or record SNF but not MNF because of the particular brand.

And that SNF follows on the back of two games on Sky actually works against it for subscription services. You need to be a hardcore fan to want to stay up and watch a third game after already having seen two. Those who had been watching Sky will not feel the need to stay up so late just for more. And the late Sunday afternoon games are often just as big as SNF anyway.

That though is obviously less relevant to an FTA network whose selling point is providing the only chance to see any football to those without a subscription to a premium service.

Originally Posted by hendero:
“It might make the difference for some fans of American football who aren't tempted by just the college game on ESPN.”

I am sure it would, but the sort of people who want to see MNF at all costs but have no interest in college football will be very small in number.

They will most likely already have Game Pass, and if not then the current £99.99 for a season pass would be better value than a standalone BT Sports subscription, which is £129.96 in HD for the NFL regular season (four months at £24.99 plus a £30 connection fee).

Originally Posted by Regis Magnae:
“I think it shows the reality of how (un)popular the sport is in the UK.”

Well it shows how (un)popular 1:30am kick-offs on a school and work night are.
Regis Magnae
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by mavreela:
“Well it shows how (un)popular 1:30am kick-offs on a school and work night are.”

Even during the evening Wembley game, Channel 4 prioritised its regular programming over the game.
Ads
28-07-2015
I wonder if the NFL will include the Wembley games as part of the SNF package, considering Channel 4 don't seem to want NFL anymore.

The only really marketable NFL games are the ones which start at 6pm and 9.25pm our time, which Sky seem to have locked up. The NFL probably need to get one of these slots on a free to air channel if they really want to expand their sport.

At the moment though the ratings wouldn't justify it. Although maybe if the NFL gave the 9.25 game of the week to Channel 5 free and paid for studio costs for a whole season it might give the sport a chance to grow a little.
Apprentice 2 SA
28-07-2015
It's very catch 22, American Football for UK viewers. If you already like it, you love it. If you're not into it yet, it's a hard game to get into. You have to choose to invest time to get to know a very rewarding sport.

I'm not convinced that full real time matches are the way to grow support for newbies. Personally, I want to see the matches on FTA for me! But to get new people interested, they may need to go back to the 80s and present an edited game.
mavreela
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by Regis Magnae:
“Even during the evening Wembley game, Channel 4 prioritised its regular programming over the game.”

A fair point, but the Sunday 8pm and 9pm programmes are usually some of their biggest shows of the week, quite often in their top five most watched.

The only times I can think of BBC one or ITV showing sport in primetime outside of a major tournament like the Olympics or a world cup is soccer, the Six Nations, or Andy Murray. Even the BBC only put well established and rating sports on BBC Two now, with more instead going on BBC three.

It was disappointing, but it did at least make sense with Channel 4 being commercially funded. Unlike the one time BBC Two showed a game yet switched it to BBC three at 7pm.
Radiomike
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by mavreela:
“Yes. Obviously when they took over existing contracts were already in place, but ESPN assumed control of NASN in 2007 and that was either the final season they showed NFL content like Sunday Countdown, or the first without.

After ESPN took over they cut costs significantly, not renewing any rights beyond the major ones with the MLB, NHL, and CBS (for the SEC). All other content being that to which they already owned the rights. Hence the dropping of things like the CFL and a few other outside contracts they had at the time.

Because they had live NFL rights in Europe those allowed them to show other programming, they did not need a separate highlights contract for those territories.

And it was in 2007 that ATH and PTI stopped showing clips. Both Henry Hodgson (hank) and Alistair Kirkwood both stated at the time on the NFL UK site that the decision by not to renew the rights NASN previously held was made by ESPN for their own reasons, not because they were no longer available.”

Some of your recollection is incorrect. This might help:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN_America

ESPN America operated in the UK from 2009 to 2013. Sunday NFL Countdown was broadcast until the 2012-13 season. Similarly ATH and PTI only ran into trouble with the use of some clips in the UK around 2012 but continued on ESPN America until 31 July 2013.

You may be confusing what happened in 2012-13 with an earlier issue between NASN and ESPN in 2006-7:-

"In 2006, ESPN programmes, including Baseball Tonight, Around the Horn, The Sports Reporters and Pardon the Interruption were dropped from the schedule as the contract between NASN and ESPN ended. However, they returned from 1 April 2007 after ESPN acquired the channel."
scurry
28-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“Some of your recollection is incorrect. This might help:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN_America

ESPN America operated in the UK from 2009 to 2013. Sunday NFL Countdown was broadcast until the 2012-13 season.
”

I'm almost certain it's been more than two NFL seasons since I last watched Sunday NFL Countdown. Are you sure the dates referred to above aren't Europe's coverage? As they continued to receive all NFL programming much longer than we did in the UK.
Jack1
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by kevthelutonbee:
“I have been led to believe that the coverage will be FTA”

By who or what? Because without that the statement has little value.
Jack1
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“BT Sport shows plenty of live sport from the US in the early hours and has a committed College Football following. It would have been able to show ESPN's Monday Night NFL Countdown from 11pm in advance of the game and their half time show - plus it would be able to repeat the game during daytime and peak hours the following day etc. I daresay it would like to show more NFL support shows as well in the same way as it does for College Football.

I recall when ESPN America used to show ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown between 3 and 6pm on a Sunday before Sky's live coverage. That was a great show - now seemingly stymied by Sky's NFL deal.

BT Sport would be a logical place for some NFL coverage precisely because it does have significant numbers of US Sports fans.”

You still haven't answered my question, why would it drive subscriptions? All you've have pointed too is how it would satisfy current subscribers.
walterwhite
29-07-2015
Has there been any confirmation other than Vernon Kaye's twitter?
Radiomike
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by scurry:
“I'm almost certain it's been more than two NFL seasons since I last watched Sunday NFL Countdown. Are you sure the dates referred to above aren't Europe's coverage? As they continued to receive all NFL programming much longer than we did in the UK.”

You may be right to the extent that I can't recall whether the 2012 season was the last time we enjoyed Sunday NFL Countdown or 2011. I suspect that it may have been 2011. It was certainly available that season.
Radiomike
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Jack1:
“You still haven't answered my question, why would it drive subscriptions? All you've have pointed too is how it would satisfy current subscribers.”

BT Sport doesn't have any NFL coverage or programming at the moment. If BT Sport acquired SNF it would therefore add a new strand to its programming and that would drive subscriptions.

However, using your logic, why would BT Sport be interested in acquiring say La Liga. It already airs football so how would that drive subscriptions rather than satisfying current subscribers.

Once again let me make the point that my original contribution on this subject was in response to a post asking whether BT Sport might try and pick up SNF. My point was that if BT Sport were interested in NFL the more logical starting point would have been when the rights to MNF became available as the coverage of that event is in the hands of BT Sport's partner ESPN so it would make a more natural fit. That said I only think BT Sport would have been interested if it enabled them to show other NFL material from ESPN like NFL Live, NFL Insiders or Sunday NFL Countdown. I never said that BT Sport should go after SNF or that they would be interested in doing so.

Rather than just nit picking at other's posts why not tell us who you think might cover SNF and why it would be of any more interest to that broadcaster than C4. If I had to pick a likely FTA candidate I would probably go for ITV 4 with some programming (Superbowl and some Wembley coverage) on ITV.
samburrows
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“
However, using your logic, why would BT Sport be interested in acquiring say La Liga. It already airs football so how would that drive subscriptions rather than satisfying current subscribers.”

Over on the La Liga rights thread, veteran poster mlt11 has already made the point eloquently that acquiring La Liga would be unlikely to improve subscriber numbers for BT.
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